Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part V)

[Lafleurs Guy]

I disagree that we are no better off then we were 8 years ago. We were an old, tired team with a few good players and virtually nothing in the pipeline. Our payroll was spent on overpriced vets like Gomez, Spacek, Moen and Prust.

Today’s NHL is designed for all teams to be in perpetual wasteland. In a century, with the current amount of teams in the NHL, 5 dominant years winning 2 Cups and winning 1 more Cup in the remaining 95 years in the new par for the course.

Eight years ago we had Subban, Price, Max all coming up. Do we have anyone as good in the system now? Anyone in the lineup as good now?

 

[Frozenice]

Eight years ago we had Subban, Price, Max all coming up. Do we have anyone as good in the system now? Anyone in the lineup as good now?

That was all we had.

We couldn’t fill out a roster without signing overpriced vets on their last legs. That’s why we had DD, because we had no one else, not because we were letting our young, superstar prospects over-ripen in the minors.

 

[A55P2]

Hey I was just told that the LD is already settled. Romanov-Norlinder-Harris. That's done. Don't even think of wondering if it could...it will! lol

It's not settled. But it does indeed look very promising. Nothing wrong with having a little depth.

 

[BaseballCoach]

That was all we had.

We couldn’t fill out a roster without signing overpriced vets on their last legs. That’s why we had DD, because we had no one else, not because we were letting our young, superstar prospects over-ripen in the minors.

Exactly, the GM never made the right moves to get his tea to the next level.

 

[26Mats]

Eight years ago we had Subban, Price, Max all coming up. Do we have anyone as good in the system now? Anyone in the lineup as good now?

Plus McDonagh...

But I would say we have more depth of high quality prospects now, even if we don't don't have those 3 elite prospects.

What kk turns out to be is huge.

 

[Frozenice]

Exactly, the GM never made the right moves to get his tea to the next level.

Brian Burke wheeled and dealed trying to take a team (the Leafs) lacking in a lot of areas into being a contender without doing a rebuild snd he failed. Even if you win 75% of your trades, even if you trade away your draft picks, ultimately you fall flat on your face.

We had to start over, we had to replenish our prospect pool, it needed to be a ground up restoration, not a little window dressing.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That was all we had.

We couldn’t fill out a roster without signing overpriced vets on their last legs. That’s why we had DD, because we had no one else, not because we were letting our young, superstar prospects over-ripen in the minors.

Two superstars and a 40 goal guy is great to build with. I’d much rather start with that. And we had Pleks, Markov, Cammaleri...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Plus McDonagh...

But I would say we have more depth of high quality prospects now, even if we don't don't have those 3 elite prospects.

What kk turns out to be is huge.

KK is the wildcard. I thought he’d be a solid two way number one (not a superstar) but now I’m not sure. We have to wait and see now.

 

[Habs]

Hope he's better than our last superstar swede prospect Sebastian Collberg, a 'can't miss pick' in the first round by Timmins and Ricky Ratardo.

 

[FrankMTL]

Hope he's better than our last superstar swede prospect Sebastian Collberg, a 'can't miss pick' in the first round by Timmins and Ricky Ratardo.

He was actually a second rounder

 

[montreal]

Hope he's better than our last superstar swede prospect Sebastian Collberg, a 'can't miss pick' in the first round by Timmins and Ricky Ratardo.

Collberg was a 2nd round pick and not sure if you know this but we hired a new Swedish scout so I would assume he had more say in the Norlinder pick then Rockstrom who is now listed as just a Euro scout.

 

[Habs]

Collberg was a 2nd round pick and not sure if you know this but we hired a new Swedish scout so I would assume he had more say in the Norlinder pick then Rockstrom who is now listed as just a Euro scout.

Lets hope we can find someone from sweden who contributes to this team one day, instead of burning picks every year.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Hope he's better than our last superstar swede prospect Sebastian Collberg, a 'can't miss pick' in the first round by Timmins and Ricky Ratardo.

He was a 2nd Round Pick.

Also, Collberg may not have amounted to much. But he was an asset used to acquire Vanek in Habs' quest to the ECF in 2014.

And finally, the way the Habs handled Collberg served as a lesson for the organization on how to handle their European prospects.

Basically, he was slated to be one of Frolunda's top players, getting a lot of meaningful ice time. However, the Habs wanted him to be at their development camp and then their rookie camp. So he had his off-season training, then camp with Habs, then camp with Frolunda, then rookie camp with Habs that forced him to miss some preseason games with Frolunda and more of their camp. Adding all of that with the travelling back and forth from Europe and NA to make all of these camps, you get that he was more tired than usual. As a result of attending the Habs rookie camp, Frolunda had to start the season with someone else in Collberg's spot. That player did well so they kept him in that spot. So when Collberg returned after the rookie camp, he was played lower in the line-up and wasn't used in the situations his coach initially wanted to put him in because the other players were doing well.

That actually helped the Habs realize that it's better for their European prospects to stay in Europe instead of travelling to attend the Habs' rookie camp.

 

[Habs]

He was a 2nd Round Pick.

Also, Collberg may not have amounted to much. But he was an asset used to acquire Vanek in Habs' quest to the ECF in 2014.

And finally, the way the Habs handled Collberg served as a lesson for the organization on how to handle their European prospects.

Basically, he was slated to be one of Frolunda's top players, getting a lot of meaningful ice time. However, the Habs wanted him to be at their development camp and then their rookie camp. So he had his off-season training, then camp with Habs, then camp with Frolunda, then rookie camp with Habs that forced him to miss some preseason games with Frolunda and more of their camp. Adding all of that with the travelling back and forth from Europe and NA to make all of these camps, you get that he was more tired than usual. As a result of attending the Habs rookie camp, Frolunda had to start the season with someone else in Collberg's spot. That player did well so they kept him in that spot. So when Collberg returned after the rookie camp, he was played lower in the line-up and wasn't used in the situations his coach initially wanted to put him in because the other players were doing well.

That actually helped the Habs realize that it's better for their European prospects to stay in Europe instead of travelling to attend the Habs' rookie camp.

Its like saying by watching Jeffry Dahmer eat people, we can better understand caniballism and serial killers, I get it now.

 

[EXPOS123]

Its like saying by watching Jeffry Dahmer eat people, we can better understand caniballism and serial killers, I get it now.

Lol..good one.

On a serious note, I consider our entire european scouting atrocious. Other than Lehkonen and Kotka have any other of our euro picks done anything? I think you have to go back to Markov and Koivu

 

[Habs]

Lol..good one.

On a serious note, I consider our entire european scouting atrocious. Other than Lehkonen and Kotka have any other of our euro picks done anything? I think you have to go back to Markov and Koivu

Scouts in the west are all a joke too , Crawford is a total loser

 

[montreal]

Lol..good one.

On a serious note, I consider our entire european scouting atrocious. Other than Lehkonen and Kotka have any other of our euro picks done anything? I think you have to go back to Markov and Koivu

Halak, Streit, Emelin, the Kostitsyn brothers, Grabo. There's Sergachev who while drafted out of the OHL as a rookie, I'm sure our Russian scout saw him in the MHL since scouts often look at these kids before their draft year.

Romanov should be an NHLer next year if he wants to

Vejdemo might catch on next year as a 4th liner


There's also picks they missed on but there good picks for where they were taken, good gambles imo in Nygren and Reway (who like Sergachev was drafted out of the CHL in his rookie year but I'm sure they watched him before that)

Lets hope we can find someone from sweden who contributes to this team one day, instead of burning picks every year.

for sure as we have done nothing from Sweden since they hired Rockstrom in 2010, though I do like DLR more then most around here and think he can be a decent 4th liner and Vejdemo while I was never a big fan is looking like he could see some NHL time if not this year then next. But we need to be much better from Sweden and the Q which has also not been kind to us.

 

[EXPOS123]

Halak, Streit, Emelin, the Kostitsyn brothers, Grabo. There's Sergachev who while drafted out of the OHL as a rookie, I'm sure our Russian scout saw him in the MHL since scouts often look at these kids before their draft year.

Romanov should be an NHLer next year if he wants to

Vejdemo might catch on next year as a 4th liner


There's also picks they missed on but there good picks for where they were taken, good gambles imo in Nygren and Reway (who like Sergachev was drafted out of the CHL in his rookie year but I'm sure they watched him before that)



for sure as we have done nothing from Sweden since they hired Rockstrom in 2010, though I do like DLR more then most around here and think he can be a decent 4th liner and Vejdemo while I was never a big fan is looking like he could see some NHL time if not this year then next. But we need to be much better from Sweden and the Q which has also not been kind to us.

You listed a total of 7-8 players over a what 15 year span? And none were impact players other than maybe Halak. I still maintain their European scouting is abysmal - were they not one of the last teams to invest more heavily in overseas scouts after Winnipeg started the trend in the late 80’s?

 

[salbutera]

Hope he's better than our last superstar swede prospect Sebastian Collberg, a 'can't miss pick' in the first round by Timmins and Ricky Ratardo.

2nd round....Galchenyuk was the 1st rounder in 2012.

 

[montreal]

You listed a total of 7-8 players over a what 15 year span? And they were not exactly impact players other than maybe Halak.

you didn't say anything about impact players so I just listed them all. Sergachev putting up very solid numbers, it's not Timmins fault he was traded. Romanov stands the chance to be an impact player for us, we'll see what happens with others.

If you go back to 2003, the Habs have picked in the top 60 a kid they scouted in the Euro leagues at some point 9 times with only 2 being 1st round picks,

Kostitsyn, Collberg, DLR, Leks, Sergachev, Ikonen, Romanov and Olofsson, Ylonen.

Collberg was a bust and we'll see what happens with the 4 more recent guys. Clearly our Euro scouting has not been great under Timmins.

 

[1909]

you didn't say anything about impact players so I just listed them all. Sergachev putting up very solid numbers, it's not Timmins fault he was traded. Romanov stands the chance to be an impact player for us, we'll see what happens with others.

If you go back to 2003, the Habs have picked in the top 60 a kid they scouted in the Euro leagues at some point 8 times with only 2 being 1st round picks,

Kostitsyn, Collberg, DLR, Leks, Sergachev, Ikonen, Romanov and Olofsson.

Collberg was a bust and we'll see what happens with the 3 more recent guys. Clearly our Euro scouting has not been great under Timmins.

+ Ylonen... + Sergachev was playing in the OHL. That's probably where he caught their eyes.

 

[montreal]

+ Ylonen... + Sergachev was playing in the OHL. That's probably where he caught their eyes.

I forgot Ylonen but Sergachev they would have seen before the OHL for sure, he played in several international tournaments at 16 for Russia and he was a standout in the MHL as only 3 defensemen in the MHL's history have put up a higher ppg with players playing at least 10 games or more.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Lol..good one.

On a serious note, I consider our entire european scouting atrocious. Other than Lehkonen and Kotka have any other of our euro picks done anything? I think you have to go back to Markov and Koivu

Well, you can't say that Romanov looks like a bad pick, even 1.5 years post-draft.

When was the last time we had so many picks and prospects highly rated by outside sources (not our fan base or Timmins)? Price, Pacioretty, Subban?

 

[The Great Weal]

Yeah, did he have Rielly at 3 in 2018 or was it in 2012 ?

It is pretty well documented that Bergevin wanted Rielly.

I've been feeling good about the 2016 to 2019 drafts, I dont agree they went for need for their first rounders. They might have added positional value, but they drafted players around where they were expected. Sergachev was a great pick for example in 2016. TB fans are raving about him.

Sergachev is pretty much the only 1st rounder we drafted that looks great today since 2008. That's incredibly pathetic and until I see some good players in the Habs lineup that we drafted, I dont feel confident eith Timmins at all.

Did you ? I barely saw any with Hughes clear cut at 3. I know a few here loved the guy, but it also came with the added comment that they'd take him or "such and such", often times Boqvist/Zadina or Tkachuk.

I was pretty vocal about how much I liked Hughes. I believe I had him 3rd in my final list. I think I said that I dont have confidence in us keeping a player like Hughes for long because of the Subban trade so I said we should go with KK. Anyways, doesnt really matter what I think. I'm not getting paid the big money nor do I have the resources to fully form a proper list. However, I do know that the mentality of drafting has been awful.

 

[Andrei79]

It is pretty well documented that Bergevin wanted Rielly.

Sergachev is pretty much the only 1st rounder we drafted that looks great today since 2008. That's incredibly pathetic and until I see some good players in the Habs lineup that we drafted, I dont feel confident eith Timmins at all.

I was pretty vocal about how much I liked Hughes. I believe I had him 3rd in my final list. I think I said that I dont have confidence in us keeping a player like Hughes for long because of the Subban trade so I said we should go with KK. Anyways, doesnt really matter what I think. I'm not getting paid the big money nor do I have the resources to fully form a proper list. However, I do know that the mentality of drafting has been awful.

I won't argue about Timmins' draft record. You know I'm not a fan of his almost decade long drought.

I can appreciate however the improvement since 2016, though I think his team isn't what this club should strive for considering its budget and restrictions on the FA market i.e. we should a top3-5 drafting team.

2016 has produced both Sergachev and Mete, which is excellent.
The players since then have, for once since the 2007, trended in the right direction. Fleury is already a regular.

I don't think it's enough, but it's not the disaster it used to be.

As far as Hughes goes, I'm pretty sure you had him as an option at 3, but didn't have him at three, like most people aside from Boisvert, he actually ranked him no.1 over Dahlin. It doesn't matter though, Hughes was one of around 7 options that were legitimate number 3 candidates.