Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part IV)

[cphabs]

Timmins must have to take medication to be able to handle what our club does with his drafts. Seriously lol!

 

[montreal]

Crawford couldn't scout for a Peewee team, yet he's given the keys to the west. You are correct about the other areas, totally void of good scouting talent.

he's on the pro side though. I was talking about our WHL/BCHL scouts.

 

[CapSpace]

Let's take a look at what we did in the first 2 rounds at the draft last years :

2018 :
1-Kotkaniemi-FWD
2-Romanov-D + Olofson-FWD + Ylonen-FWD

2017 :
1-Poehling-FWD
2-Brook-D + Ikonen-FWD

2016 :
1-Sergachev-D
2-No pick

2015 :
1-Juulsen-D
2-No pick

2014 :
1-Scherbak-FWD
2-No pick

I don't really see a pattern here of drafting a forward first than a dman. Maybe more a mix of team needs + BPA.

 

[Mrb1p]

Let's take a look at what we did in the first 2 rounds at the draft last years :

2018 :
1-Kotkaniemi-FWD
2-Romanov-D + Olofson-FWD + Ylonen-FWD

2017 :
1-Poehling-FWD
2-Brook-D + Ikonen-FWD

2016 :
1-Sergachev-D
2-No pick

2015 :
1-Juulsen-D
2-No pick

2014 :
1-Scherbak-FWD
2-No pick

I don't really see a pattern here of drafting a forward first than a dman. Maybe more a mix of team needs + BPA.

There's no pattern, but there's more value in going forward first and D later, for a few reasons.
Mainly, D's develop slowly when compared to forwards, they are harder to predict and teams seem to put a premium on players that are going to make an impact sooner rather than later. Forwards always go earlier in the draft, unless the defenseman is an absolute stud. Take a peek at prior draft and watch the forwards drafted in the first and the D drafted in the 2nd and try to beat the best combo with a D drafted in the 1st and a forward drafted in the 2nd. It's rarely the case that the latter is the better group.

Guys like Brook, Subban, Josi, Romanov, Weber, etc all go in the 2nd round, while players like Poehling, Kotkaniemi, Barzal, etc usually don't drop to the 2nd.

When you take a peek at the top scoring Ds and Fs. There's 11 forwards that were picked outside the first round in the top 50, 23 in the top 100 vs 23 in the top 50 alone for defenders. Those are pretty compelling numbers, the success rate of D's in the 2nd round or later is basically double. (It goes up to 32 in the next 50 for defenders BTW.)

 

[ahmedou]

Is there statistics data to evaluate him and the others in this department. On a overall way. Alike, an rate my scouts website...

 

[Chili]

I hope the amateur scouts are watching the Clutterbuck, Cizikas, Martin line and how effective they are in the playoffs.

 

[Chadstudsky]

Usually we move as a more or less collective mind.

I remember last year pretty clearly and it wasnt KK unanimously. Dont remember previous years though

 

[Mrb1p]

I remember last year pretty clearly and it wasnt KK unanimously. Dont remember previous years though

Oh, I meant the regular posters in the draft thread. We were all in on the Kotkaniemi train, early. I took a year off from prospect watching (Can't use the word scouting ) but people were pretty mad at the Poehling pick, but loved the rest of the draft. 2016 was a good year, 2013 is the last time Timmins went off the board from what the board wanted, Shea Theodore.

 

[HabsMD97]

Oh, I meant the regular posters in the draft thread. We were all in on the Kotkaniemi train, early. I took a year off from prospect watching (Can't use the word scouting ) but people were pretty mad at the Poehling pick, but loved the rest of the draft. 2016 was a good year, 2013 is the last time Timmins went off the board from what the board wanted, Shea Theodore.

I think a lot of people weren't that high on Kotkaniemi because Grant McCagg was really high on him and was calling it pretty early on. His take on McCleod was still fresh on everyone's mind, plus he is an ass.

 

[Mrb1p]

I think a lot of people weren't that high on Kotkaniemi because Grant McCagg was really high on him and was calling it pretty early on. His take on McCleod was still fresh on everyone's mind, plus he is an ass.

Literally every regular poster in this thread were high on Kotkaniemi. The love for Newhook/Dorofeyev is similar to the love Jeppu got last year.

 

[phillytennis]

I think a lot of people weren't that high on Kotkaniemi because Grant McCagg was really high on him and was calling it pretty early on. His take on McCleod was still fresh on everyone's mind, plus he is an ass.

A few years ago, I remember debating
with Grant regards Mike McCarron.
I wasn't interested in McCarron...while
Grant thought he was a great player and would make a wonderful, big centreman in Montreal.
I argued that even though McCarron was tall and had good hands, he lacked speed to be truly effective.
Most Hab fans on this board supported and believed in the choice and belief
held by Grant.... I remained in the minority who didn't want McCarron.

 

[Mrb1p]

A few years ago, I remember debating
with Grant regards Mike McCarron.
I wasn't interested in McCarron...while
Grant thought he was a great player and would make a wonderful, big centreman in Montreal.
I argued that even though McCarron was tall and had good hands, he lacked speed to be truly effective.
Most Hab fans on this board supported and believed in the choice and belief
held by Grant.... I remained in the minority who didn't want McCarron.

Lol, no one wanted McCarron around here

 

[phillytennis]

Lol, no one wanted McCarron around here

Lol...lol...lol....bs....everybody on this board were critizing the habs....too small, too many small guys....
Grant sold the Mike McCarron selection to the majority on the board at the time.... I debated against the pick.
I saw the new NHL was focused on speedy talented players.... McCarron did not fit that narrative.

 

[Mrb1p]

Lol...lol...lol....bs....everybody on this board were critizing the habs....too small, too many small guys....
Grant sold the Mike McCarron selection to the majority on the board at the time.... I debated was against the pick.
I saw the new NHL was focused on speedy talented players.... McCarron did not fit that narrative.

None of the actual people who know even an ounce about the draft were happy with McCarron.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

None of the actual people who know even an ounce about the draft were happy with McCarron.

You guys all wanted McCarron.

 

[phillytennis]

None of the actual people who know even an ounce about the draft were happy with McCarron.

Lol....lol...lol.... At the time, I debated against the McCarron selection with other Hab fans on this very board.
They argued that Grant was a former
scout and knew more than anybody on this site.

 

[Janne Niinimaa]

McCarron was a fairly popular pick on the board. Not at #25 though. Most posters wanted him with one of the high 2nd's. If I remember correctly, Zykov and Theodore were the popular picks at #25.

I was personally high on both Theodore and Hartman for our pick.

 

[phillytennis]

You guys all wanted McCarron.

Agreed...supposedly McCarron was the big centreman we needed.
The league was changing. Clutching and grabbing was no longer permitted.... interference, was no longer tolerated.
Speed and skill was the most important factor in drafting young players.

 

[phillytennis]

McCarron was a fairly popular pick on the board. Not at #25 though. Most posters wanted him with one of the high 2nd's. If I remember correctly, Zykov and Theodore were the popular picks at #25.

I was personally high on both Theodore and Hartman for our pick.

Everybody....(except me and a few other members didn't want McCarron) most wanted a big centreman.... especially MM.
I was pretty pissed off at the time at that pick.... I was proven right!!!

 

[Simarino]

I didnt even like Sandin that much.

Both Wilde and Miller are doing really well though?

I was pretty mad last year when Wilde was still on board and Timmins took his off the left field pick with Romanov... Would you take Wilde or Romanov today if you had the choice between the 2??

 

[Mrb1p]

I was pretty mad last year when Wilde was still on board and Timmins took his off the left field pick with Romanov... Would you take Wilde or Romanov today if you had the choice between the 2??

Romanov for sure.

Romanov is probably my biggest oversight as he wasnt even in my top 60.

 

[SOLR]

Romanov for sure.

Romanov is probably my biggest oversight as he wasnt even in my top 60.

This is a pure resource thing, we don't have much time/space to study the 2nd-3rd tier Europeans like NHL teams does.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Does he have gamebreaker upside you think? I can't really tell from the little I've seen.

I really like his game. Looks like a puck possession beast which I think we could really use a la Radulov. He can pick corners like a madman it looks like and that frame is something. He looks bigger than I thought.

Yep. His KHL play convinced me of it. Unlike that scouching jabroni, I actually watched a few of his KHL games and no, Pavel is not just abusing the ''slow'' MHL.

 

[Lebowski]

A few years ago, I remember debating
with Grant regards Mike McCarron.
I wasn't interested in McCarron...while
Grant thought he was a great player and would make a wonderful, big centreman in Montreal.
I argued that even though McCarron was tall and had good hands, he lacked speed to be truly effective.
Most Hab fans on this board supported and believed in the choice and belief
held by Grant.... I remained in the minority who didn't want McCarron.

What? McCarron was probably the 1st round pick that got the most hate on this board since I've been posting here.

The only people I recall supporting that pick were the posters you usually expect to support the management no matter what.

 

[phillytennis]

What? McCarron was probably the 1st round pick that got the most hate on this board since I've been posting here.

The only people I recall supporting that pick were the posters you usually expect to support the management no matter what.

Lebowski....you seem like a nice guy.
But, I remember that I was in a small minority who didn't want McCarron...
Maybe, you were also among that small minority of posters like myself who were against the McCarron pick.