Travis Sanheim Discussion Thread Part Two

[deadhead]

Remember, some posters favor tin foil hats so that the FO can't use mind control on them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah I'm not seeing many shackles on Sanheim

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I don't see why. He's not putting up the kind of big numbers that will make him unaffordable.

If he ever starts getting consistent PP time I think his points will really take off.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

How is AV's holding him back?

Sanheim regularly pinches and goes down low. That Sanheim/Myers pair has been uber involved offensively.
Whats hurt them is Myers massive brainfarts or unnecessary flip outs.

Inside the blueline, they have been pretty active imo

So doing exactly what he was taught to do when he was in the AHL developing. Same as Frost and all our other prospects in the AHL are currently being taught to do.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I hate having Gordon developing these people.

 

[deadhead]

I thought Huffman and Samuelson were coaching the defensemen in the system?

 

[Stizzle]

Good news though, we're working on a Laughton extension!

 

[Rebels57]

If he ever starts getting consistent PP time I think his points will really take off.

His production this season is a long way away from earning a massive number on his next extension. Hes still pacing for fewer ES points than last season.

Hopefully he has a monster 2nd half because we need it, but if his next contract is a big one, it will be because he explodes next season.

 

[Magua]

Yes, Sanheim is not blowing the doors off and making his contract look silly. But there's another year left. And much of that is usage inflicted. If the goal is to prioritize suppressing an individual's scoring to lower his future contract.....instead of maximizing on-ice value......then hurray?

Again, just for the record: Sanheim's 7 goals and 14 points at ES are the highest among the team's defensemen (12/14 are primary points). That doesn't get acknowledged enough, and it's likely a sustainable thing going forward. He's rarely used on the PP, despite his innate ability there, and his usage there remains a mystery going forward. 2/4 best pairs by relxGF% include him (with arguably the best in small sample in Sanheim-Niskanen).

 

[Rebels57]

Yes, Sanheim is not blowing the doors off and making his contract look silly. But there's another year left. And much of that is usage inflicted. If the goal is to prioritize suppressing an individual's scoring to lower his future contract.....instead of maximizing on-ice value......then hurray?

Again, just for the record: Sanheim's 7 goals and 14 points at ES are the highest among the team's defensemen (12/14 are primary points). That doesn't get acknowledged enough, and it's likely a sustainable thing going forward. He's rarely used on the PP, despite his innate ability there, and his usage there remains a mystery going forward. 2/4 best pairs by relxGF% include him (with arguably the best in small sample in Sanheim-Niskanen).

Dont think anyone is arguing any of this

 

[Striiker]

Again, just for the record: Sanheim's 7 goals and 14 points at ES are the highest among the team's defensemen (12/14 are primary points). That doesn't get acknowledged enough, and it's likely a sustainable thing going forward. He's rarely used on the PP, despite his innate ability there, and his usage there remains a mystery going forward. 2/4 best pairs by relxGF% include him (with arguably the best in small sample in Sanheim-Niskanen).

What criteria did you put in here? (ES? 5v5? Min minutes together?)

Just curious what the other pairs were.

 

[TB87]

Sanheim already has as many 5v5 goals (6) as he had all of last season in a smidge over half a season in 2019-2020. His 7 goals are only two behind his entire output from last season too.

Secondary Assists are down a bit and that’s reflected in his 5v5 Points/60 rate this season compared to last season:



5v5 Points/60: 1.11 (19-20 season)
5v5 Points/60: 1.02 (18-19 season)

5v5 Secondary Assists/60: .16 (19-20 season)
5v5 Secondary Assists/60: .34 (18-19 season)

 

[FLYguy3911]

How many points do people expect a defenseman to put up on the second pair with little/no PP time?

 

[Striiker]

How many points do people expect a defenseman to put up on the second pair with little/no PP time?

Many don't think usage matters at all.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

How many points do people expect a defenseman to put up on the second pair with little/no PP time?

Just enough to impress, but not enough to get a high market value contract for 2021 and beyond.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

His production this season is a long way away from earning a massive number on his next extension. Hes still pacing for fewer ES points than last season.

Hopefully he has a monster 2nd half because we need it, but if his next contract is a big one, it will be because he explodes next season.

He finished tied for 20th in even strength points last year. Even the pace he is at now would have him tied for like 33rd.

If he gets consistent PP time all season next year he could easily break 45+ points.

Plus he has always had slow starts when on new teams and in new situations. It just seems part of his personality that it takes a while for his confidence to grow in new situations. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays great the last half of this year and next season.

 

[Rebels57]

He finished tied for 20th in even strength points last year. Even the pace he is at now would have him tied for like 33rd.

If he gets consistent PP time all season next year he could easily break 45+ points.

Plus he has always had slow starts when on new teams and in new situations. It just seems part of his personality that it takes a while for his confidence to grow in new situations. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays great the last half of this year and next season.

Being 33rd in ES points with 0 PP points (not his fault) isnt going to earn a big AAV on his extension though.

I hope he does light it up, get put on the PP, and have more leverage in 2 summers. Thatd be a great problem for the Flyers.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Which makes the whole "betting against himself" narrative even more foolish in hindsight. He never had the cushy usage in his pocket to do it.

Sanheim in 46 games...
13 5v5 points
11 Primary Points

Our #1D is pacing for...
12 5v5 points
9 Primary points

...over a full season

 

[Striiker]

Speaking of which, Provorov has been good, but his play has been overrated by many.

Take away the lucky PP scoring and suddenly the evaluations look much different.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: he’s not our indisputable best defensemen, as many have suggested.

 

[Magua]

In the offseason, I said Provorov didn't really have to improve his production. If he could just showcase his latent play-driving ability in a top pair role, he'd be closer to reaching his potential. Sure enough, he's proceeded to drive play like a top pair defender. While seeing a sharp decrease in his 5v5 production. While making up for it by leading the team in PP points before last game (2 more than Giroux), despite being the least productive PP d-man in the league for 3 years. While having brutal underlying metrics and unsustainable shooting %s that somehow don't clear up if he's bad at the PP.

It's a pickle alright!

The 5v5 points will rise; the PP points will fall; hopefully, the play-driving continues. Unfortunately, new coaching staffs tend to latch onto early results, and something like Sanheim on PP1 will probably never happen in a Gostisbehere-less world. Provorov staying on PP1 long-term is an increasingly real possibility under Vigneault, even if I semi-understand why they can't justify a change right now (not that they know their ass from their elbow when it comes to the PP). I do fully believe that if Sanheim signed long-term, he'd have been a PP regular and not Niskanen.

 

[Striiker]

I think it’d be easier to believe that Provorov is as good as his reputation/hype if he wasn’t always given the absolute most favorable usage of every situation, as far as quality and quantity and teammates. He’s been set up to succeed from the start and never had to earn anything.

For guys like Ghost and Sanheim, we’ve seen them play awesome even when in awful situations and with awful partners. They’ve transcended their usage and proved what they can do (and don’t get rewarded for it). We’ve never seen Provorov overcome adversity to dominate the way those two have, since he’s always been on the top pair, getting tons of minutes, with our best forwards. How many times has he been healthy scratched? Or benched? Or demoted down the lineup? Never, even though he’s no less mistake prone than the other two guys.

At the end of the day the problem isn’t Provorov... he’s definitely a really good player. He just isn’t the all situations top #1 elite ace player that the coaches apparently think he is.

 

[deadhead]

Provorov is far better defensively than Sanheim or Ghost, and he has top level stamina, that's why he plays the big minutes.
I think Sanheim will gradually see his role increase and be approaching Provorov minutes next year.

 

[TCTC]

Sanheim had a good game against Boston. He's had a couple good games this year. But he's also had some pretty bad games.
I don't see a top pairing defenseman when I watch him play. At least not yet. Right now he's a good 2nd pair defenseman.

 

[Hurricane28]

I've always held the belief that while Provorov is better, Sanheim has the higher ceiling. If Sanheim can learn how to use that large frame of his on the defensive end, in addition to being more assertive on the offensive end like Monday, he can be great.

 

[TCTC]

I've always held the belief that while Provorov is better, Sanheim has the higher ceiling. If Sanheim can learn how to use that large frame of his on the defensive end, in addition to being more assertive on the offensive end like Monday, he can be great.

Sanheim maybe has more offensive potential. But I think Provorov will always be the more complete defenseman. He plays a much more mature game. He has the physicality, he has the stamina, he has the presence. He has all the tools you want from your #1 defenseman.