flyersfan187
Registered User
I wouldn't say that. Ghost has been very good at D this year. He sees the ice really well, has great outlet passes and for his size he plays a really smart game in the d-zone.
Travis Sanheim - D - 6'3" - 181 - Calgary WHL - 2014 pick (1-17) - [signed ELC, 9/25]
- Thread starter MiamiScreamingEagles
- Start date
- Status
I wouldn't say that. Ghost has been very good at D this year. He sees the ice really well, has great outlet passes and for his size he plays a really smart game in the d-zone.
I'm not disputing it's something andy does, just like other useless players who are panic stricken whenever they get the puck. They do it because it's the most risk averse play and coaches eat that shit up, much less a concious decision not to pass sanheim the puck. On the other hand Manning tries to make the plays and what good does it make if he is unable to execute them. Remember when he was paired with ghost?
Also this offensive defensive balanced pairing is something I dislike quite a lot. Provy and Ghost were in that exact disirable position to begin the season and now when they cant both have the puck 100% of the time yet I don't think it hurts their game.
Because Sanheim is good offensively doesn't automatically mean he is defensive liability waiting to happen needing a security blanket of some pylon cheating on the assignments backing off behind the play just to drop into shotblocking position at every opportunity. Just because our organization has outdated ideas about defense doesn't mean we have to do the same.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
The Flyers emphasis defense first with their young players.
And they've explained it as teaching kids how to play without the puck.
Top players handle the puck all the time in junior hockey, and if they score, there's not a lot of pressure on them to play good defense. So they have to learn to play defense.
The same theme is repeated in practically every interview with a Flyer prospect, "they want me to focus on playing a two way game."
The reasoning is simple, when you get to the NHL, how many players are so elite on offense that they instantly become the centerpiece when they're on the ice?
Most of the time you're on the ice, either a teammate or the other team will have the puck, so if you're not forechecking, back checking, getting in the right position to stop blue line entries, etc., just what are you doing to help the team win?
You can see that with both Ghost and Provorov this year, they've sat on Ghost to put as much energy into defense as offense, and this year he's finally responded and become a two way player. Provorov focused on defense his rookie year, then opened up his offensive game this season, playing much more aggressively in the O-zone. Now he has to integrate both sides of his game.
For some guys, it's not an issue - Lindblom started two years in the SHL, a defensively oriented league, and gradually worked his way into a bigger role but had to learn to do the dirty work to get more PT. I think we'll see more offense from Bernhardt and Hogberg next season for the same reason.
And with Patrick, the kid just has the instincts to play defense, much like Couts at his age, and I suspect Frost will show when he comes up.
And they've explained it as teaching kids how to play without the puck.
Top players handle the puck all the time in junior hockey, and if they score, there's not a lot of pressure on them to play good defense. So they have to learn to play defense.
The same theme is repeated in practically every interview with a Flyer prospect, "they want me to focus on playing a two way game."
The reasoning is simple, when you get to the NHL, how many players are so elite on offense that they instantly become the centerpiece when they're on the ice?
Most of the time you're on the ice, either a teammate or the other team will have the puck, so if you're not forechecking, back checking, getting in the right position to stop blue line entries, etc., just what are you doing to help the team win?
You can see that with both Ghost and Provorov this year, they've sat on Ghost to put as much energy into defense as offense, and this year he's finally responded and become a two way player. Provorov focused on defense his rookie year, then opened up his offensive game this season, playing much more aggressively in the O-zone. Now he has to integrate both sides of his game.
For some guys, it's not an issue - Lindblom started two years in the SHL, a defensively oriented league, and gradually worked his way into a bigger role but had to learn to do the dirty work to get more PT. I think we'll see more offense from Bernhardt and Hogberg next season for the same reason.
And with Patrick, the kid just has the instincts to play defense, much like Couts at his age, and I suspect Frost will show when he comes up.
Adtar02
@NateThompson44 is a bum
Yeah but I would rather him have the puck on his stick than amac. especially leaving the zone and in the Ozone.
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
- Oct 19, 2006
- 53,163
- 86,550
I agree. You don't pair up your best offensive forward with your best defensive forward. You pair up your most skilled guys and let them play off of each other. For a few years now, I've always kind of wanted to see what a Sanheim-Ghost pair could do. Give them a lot of OZ starts with the top 2 lines and let them go to work, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon. I vaguely remember Hextall mentioning he likes to have a defensive guy paired with an offensive guy. Didn't make much of it at the time, but looking back at it now, he comes off like a dinosaur.
- Sep 28, 2014
- 76,749
- 123,301
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
There's only one puck, and you have to be able to play at both ends, even if you have a great CF like 55%, the other team is still shooting 45% of the time.
So you're usually going to keep one defenseman back, which means if he's a really good offensive defensemen, in most cases you're wasting his skill package.
Hakstol got around this by putting Ghost back at the blue line and allowing Provorov to attack like a fourth forward, almost like a PP. Ghost's speed allows him to cut off breakaways from the blue line, allowing his teammates time to get back into the play. He also plays like a PP QB on offense, looking to either shoot or pass down low. And Provorov provides the defensive defenseman in his own D-zone.
But that requires the right combo, Sanheim might be able to fill the Ghost role in a couple years, allowing you to pair him with someone like Myers who can use his size to attack the net.
On the other hand, if I had Morin - Friedman out there, I'd use them in the traditional O-man and D-man roles.
So you're usually going to keep one defenseman back, which means if he's a really good offensive defensemen, in most cases you're wasting his skill package.
Hakstol got around this by putting Ghost back at the blue line and allowing Provorov to attack like a fourth forward, almost like a PP. Ghost's speed allows him to cut off breakaways from the blue line, allowing his teammates time to get back into the play. He also plays like a PP QB on offense, looking to either shoot or pass down low. And Provorov provides the defensive defenseman in his own D-zone.
But that requires the right combo, Sanheim might be able to fill the Ghost role in a couple years, allowing you to pair him with someone like Myers who can use his size to attack the net.
On the other hand, if I had Morin - Friedman out there, I'd use them in the traditional O-man and D-man roles.
Winston Wolf
Registered User
We've seen MacDonald play with Ghost, Provorov, and now Sanheim. I don't think it's disingenuous at all to say that MacDonald clearly deferred to Ghost and Provorov to carry the puck or make a breakout pass or to attempt to create something in the offensive zone. Since he's been with Sanheim (a rookie that the coach doesn't trust and doesn't have the same offensive aura that Ghost came into the league with, whether fair or not) MacDonald clearly wants the puck more and is much more unlikely to give it to Sanheim than his previous partners. You even see him calling for the puck now in the offensive zone when Sanheim has it, which is not something I've ever seen him do before with Ghost or Provorov. I'm sure it's by Hakstol's design and not just MacDonald being a dick, but Sanheim can clearly contribute in ways that no one else besides the guys on the top pair can. I'd be curious to see MacDonald's attempted breakouts from his time with Ghost/Provorov compared to Sanheim and also his attempted shots per game.
There's a lot of moving parts when it comes to player usage and trying to deploy your roster in certain way. It can be more detrimental then beneficial. Last night Babcock just rolled his lines without any attempt at line matching whatsoever and it clearly worked.
Also it's actually a hakstols strength as a coach. I'm not one to notice all that much during the games, but there was a game on a road where opponents top line just finished the shift, whistle got blown and I saw Torgo get a shift and not come out again until their top line finished another shift. Then I had a look after the game and Torgo got like half a minute against the top6 competition. I know it's peak hakstol to chase matchups for 4th line, but still he can get it done even without last change.
Tripod
I hate this team
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
Sanheim has the potential to do a lot of things, but how much do you want to ask him to do as a rookie?
He's making good progress this season after a rough start, I'm not sure I'd push him too fast.
Next season, well, you have to push a bit more.
He's making good progress this season after a rough start, I'm not sure I'd push him too fast.
Next season, well, you have to push a bit more.
Tripod
I hate this team
We are losing anyways. For just 1 game, it would be nice to see him let off the reigns from the get go instead of only in the 3rd period when losing by 4 goals.
It's not about pushing him too fast, it's about holding him back needlessly.
The whole point of letting these kids spend extra time in the AHL of in lower leagues, is so that they are more ready for the Nhl.
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
- Oct 19, 2006
- 53,163
- 86,550
I watched Seth Jones lead a rush tonight and Werenski was the next man trailing him. This happened with 90 seconds left in regulation. Panarin nearly ended the game as a result. That would never happen here.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
I thought the NHL wasn't a developmental league and young defensemen shouldn't be up until they're able to fully contribute to the team?
Now suddenly Sanheim should be played carefully and used differently from the rest? As if he's not ready?
Sounds like a contradiction to me. Must be a coincidence that it defends Hakstols usage of him.
- Sep 28, 2014
- 76,749
- 123,301
Contradictions everywhere in our org.
Slow-cook prospects until they are NHL ready, and then baby them at the NHL level.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
It's what most NHL teams do. Then there's Edmonton. 
Where prospects go to see their careers die.
It varies from player to player.
I'd baby Sanheim more than Provorov.
I'd baby Laughton more than Couts or Patrick.
Some players are more instinctual than other.
I think Sanheim needs to grow into a bigger role rather than be forcefeed.
Where prospects go to see their careers die.It varies from player to player.
I'd baby Sanheim more than Provorov.
I'd baby Laughton more than Couts or Patrick.
Some players are more instinctual than other.
I think Sanheim needs to grow into a bigger role rather than be forcefeed.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Sanheim has proven to be better than Manning, MacDonald, Gudas, and Hagg. All of which have had bigger roles.
Last edited:
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
It has nothing to do with the future.
Right now he's better than they are and right now he should have a bigger role.
Right now he's better than they are and right now he should have a bigger role.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
No, right now Sanheim should be used in a fashion to build his confidence going into next season, when he will play a bigger role.
For one thing, it would be hard to get him over 16 minutes without playing the PK or PP1, since he's still going to be on the 2nd pair, and Ghost/Provorov get the most ES minutes.
And I'd rather see him get easier matchups when possible right now.
For one thing, it would be hard to get him over 16 minutes without playing the PK or PP1, since he's still going to be on the 2nd pair, and Ghost/Provorov get the most ES minutes.
And I'd rather see him get easier matchups when possible right now.
AdamParrot
Registered User
- Mar 10, 2015
- 6,372
- 10,093
- Sep 28, 2014
- 76,749
- 123,301
- Status
