Transport 93 Lemieux into july 2023? Read op

[Richard]

This is what I believe but I don’t think he would get there being transported 30 years into the future… and I’m fully aware of how great he still was from 2001-03, I just think the game has changed a lot since then, particularly the speed and pace of play and powerplays are not given out like candy, but at the same time I could see a situation where he still plays 5+ minutes like Ovechkin still does. I don’t know, with training and time to get up to game speed I’m sure he would still compete for a scoring title, but 31 years of evolution in the NHL is a lot to adapt to in 3 months so I wouldn’t be overly surprised to see him not as good as the top 4 forwards today at the very least.

hmmmmm you think? The last three year gap he just blew past a 20's Chara....

Nah he couldn't hack it now

Dude would score 75 goals and 180 points

 

[kingsholygrail]

Heres the hypothetical. We somehow transport 27 year old 93 mario into july 2023. Giving him 3 months to get into shape and test out new skate and stick technology for 3 months over the summer. He then starts opening night as the pens 1st line center. What are the results in 75-82 games healthy?

3 months? lol He'd fail miserably.

 

[danny90]

I think people here are undermining the amount of work he’d have to do to compete there’s no way he’d be a ppg in todays nhl, players are faster, stronger, more endurance and familiarly with fitness and diet.

 

[authentic]

hmmmmm you think? The last three year gap he just blew past a 20's Chara....

Nah he couldn't hack it now

Dude would score 75 goals and 180 points

Chara was kind of… slow, not to mention 3 and a half years is nearly 10x less than 31… and there were no significant changes in the NHL from 1997-2001.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He breaks the goal and points record. There’s simply no way to stop him with today’s rules.

 

[TGWL]

The first thing we need to do is go back in time an analyze how many goals and assist did Lemieux actually produce. How many goals were given to Mario that went off somebody's stick, skate, etc? How many assist were given to Mario because the ref thought he touched the puck?

Then, with accurate information, we need to adjust the stats for today.

Then we need to take training and equipment into account. Because Mario was so big and strong, he'd be even stronger today. We need to reduce the adjusted goals by 15% for sticks breaking.

Another 20% percentage for the play stopping with an actual penalty called.

I really don't understand the enjoyment fans have with comparing. Times are different. Nobody knows.

 

[DJJones]

Probably take him a while to adapt. Goalies are obviously better but the equipment would be way better and he'd laugh at people trying to defend him without taking a penalty.

Then he'd dominate

 

[tfwnogf]

He would dominate this league. No clutch and grab, no deadpuck to stop him. 100 goals, 130 assists. Ainec.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The first thing we need to do is go back in time an analyze how many goals and assist did Lemieux actually produce. How many goals were given to Mario that went off somebody's stick, skate, etc? How many assist were given to Mario because the ref thought he touched the puck?

Then, with accurate information, we need to adjust the stats for today.

Then we need to take training and equipment into account. Because Mario was so big and strong, he'd be even stronger today. We need to reduce the adjusted goals by 15% for sticks breaking.

Another 20% percentage for the play stopping with an actual penalty called.

I really don't understand the enjoyment fans have with comparing. Times are different. Nobody knows.

Look at Lemieux when he came back as an old man. The non obstruction rules were in play and he destroyed the league. 76 points in 43 games. And he hasn’t played hockey in five years.

Prime Lemieux would be a 200 plus point player. No doubt about it.

 

[TGWL]

Look at Lemieux when he came back as an old man. The non obstruction rules were in play and he destroyed the league. 76 points in 43 games. And he hasn’t played hockey in five years.

Prime Lemieux would be a 200 plus point player. No doubt about it.

Most of my post was being sarcastic. But in the end it's speculation.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Most of my post was being sarcastic. But in the end it's speculation.

Mario Lemieux was flat out the best player I ever saw. Better than Gretz. But he couldn’t stay healthy. A big reason for that was that the league let players drape themselves all over him. In today’s league that all goes away.

He was pacing for 150 as an old man who’d been away from the game forever. He comes back in his prime with nobody able to hook, grab or tackle him? 200 points easily.

 

[dirtydanglez]

160 pts

 

[paracord]

Mario Lemieux was flat out the best player I ever saw. Better than Gretz. But he couldn’t stay healthy. A big reason for that was that the league let players drape themselves all over him. In today’s league that all goes away.

He was pacing for 150 as an old man who’d been away from the game forever. He comes back in his prime with nobody able to hook, grab or tackle him? 200 points easily.

Not to mention 3 on 3 points too! He never had that.

 

[paracord]

Mario Lemieux was flat out the best player I ever saw. Better than Gretz. But he couldn’t stay healthy. A big reason for that was that the league let players drape themselves all over him. In today’s league that all goes away.

He was pacing for 150 as an old man who’d been away from the game forever. He comes back in his prime with nobody able to hook, grab or tackle him? 200 points easily.

He had the size and reach of Lindros, the playmaking of Gretzky, the deking of Jagr or Bure, and the one timer of Ovechkin.

He had no offensive weaknesses. His biggest weakness was durability and illness. He's the most talented player of all time but you still have to dock him a bit for simply not being available. Just bad luck and circumstances, really.

 

[WalterLundy]

He had the size and reach of Lindros, the playmaking of Gretzky, the deking of Jagr or Bure, and the one timer of Ovechkin.

He had no offensive weaknesses. His biggest weakness was durability and illness. He's the most talented player of all time but you still have to dock him a bit for simply not being available. Just bad luck and circumstances, really.

He had the first and third of what you listed. He didn’t have the playmaking of Gretzky. Not even close actually. I’ll admit I watched him play in person more than probably any user on this site and his one timer was a bomb but not comparable to Ovi. I’ve never seen anything like Ovi’s. I would agree that he didn’t have any offensive weaknesses though.

 

[PaulD]

A sick/injured Mario couldnt be stopped with a defenseman waterskiing off him. Healthy and with todays interference rules? He would break the season point record.

This

 

[SillyRabbit]

Lemieux's 2003 season is insane.

GP: 67
G: 28
A: 63
Pts: 91

This was during the dead puck era and with much more physical play/clutching and grabbing.
If he played a full season he was on pace to win the Art Ross.
He was 38 years old and already survived cancer and came back from 3 missing 3 full seasons of retirement.

This was in the twilight of his career...imagine him in his prime. It's really hard to overstate just how talented Lemieux was. McDavid's a great player and making a great case to make it into a top 5 rather than a top 4...but Lemieux in his prime was simply better.

In 2003, Peter Forsberg won the Art Ross and Hart trophies.

I've never heard anyone say that "Peter Forsberg wouldn't cut it in today's NHL."

But people want to act like Lemieux played in the 60's and we have no idea how he would fare against modern players.

We saw it. He dominated.

 

[SML2]

I've been thinking about this some more today and I've come to realize there's a potential fundamental flaw in making TOI scoring adjustments, aside from considerations for production not rising linearly with increased ice time.

While it's known that scoring levels have fluctuated in the past due to factors like goaltending skill, powerplay opportunities, and the evolution of defensive strategies, what is not being acknowledged is how much of an influence the role of ice time allocation has. Ice time for skilled players has been trending downwards for a long time now. It stands to reason that, since skilled players were allotted a greater share of total available ice time compared to their less skilled teammates, this can be another important factor that influences overall scoring levels. In essence, when we adjust for scoring levels between certain seasons, we may simultaneously already be making adjustments for the ice time allotted to skilled players. Therefore, addressing these two factors separately could constitute a dual adjustment. It's unfortunate, but the degree of that correlation and what seasons it would apply to can never be fully understood without knowing the actual ice times(for a large cohort of players.

If you had a 27 year old Mario on your bench in this day and age and didn't have him on the ice for 23+ minutes a night you're a stone cold idiot.

Dave Quinn could win a Jack Adams with him on his roster and Quinny's the worst coach this league has seen in this league in years.

 

[paracord]

He had the first and third of what you listed. He didn’t have the playmaking of Gretzky. Not even close actually. I’ll admit I watched him play in person more than probably any user on this site and his one timer was a bomb but not comparable to Ovi. I’ve never seen anything like Ovi’s. I would agree that he didn’t have any offensive weaknesses though.

Actually he was "close." He's #2 all time in APG behind Gretzky, less than 2 tenths of an assist per game behind him. No one else is closer, or even remotely close to that.

He's also #1 all time in pp goals per game by a wide margin. Many, many of those were right-handed one-timers from the dot, where Ovechkin likes to shoot from too!

 

[Video Nasty]

He had no offensive weaknesses. His biggest weakness was durability and illness. He's the most talented player of all time but you still have to dock him a bit for simply not being available. Just bad luck and circumstances, really.

More like lack of conditioning. It’s a simple truth that gets glossed over in favor of woe is me.

 

[paracord]

More like lack of conditioning. It’s a simple truth that gets glossed over in favor of woe is me.

True he was so talented that he didn't even need to work hard in the offseason. That probably caught up with him later on, but getting cancer is pretty much just the luck of the draw.

 

[PaulD]

He had the first and third of what you listed. He didn’t have the playmaking of Gretzky. Not even close actually. I’ll admit I watched him play in person more than probably any user on this site and his one timer was a bomb but not comparable to Ovi. I’ve never seen anything like Ovi’s. I would agree that he didn’t have any offensive weaknesses though.

Nope. I have seen him live too. I have seen him play live on Gretzkys line. Doesn't make me an authority on those who have only seen him on the screen.
Imo - His play making was equal or better than Gretz.
My favorite player is and always will be Guy Lafleur.
The "best player Iver ever seen" player is Mario Lemieux.

More like lack of conditioning. It’s a simple truth that gets glossed over in favor of woe is me.

pure envy

 

[Video Nasty]

True he was so talented that he didn't even need to work hard in the offseason. That probably caught up with him later on

True.

Nope. I have seen him live too. I have seen him play live on Gretzkys line. Doesn't make me an authority on those who have only seen him on the screen.
Imo - His play making was equal or better than Gretz.
My favorite player is and always will be Guy Lafleur.
The "best player Iver ever seen" player is Mario Lemieux.


pure envy

Envy? He’s my second favorite player ever, behind only Gretzky.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

The defencemen can actually skate today though.

This. Watch every aspect of that clip closely, then tell me the competition compares to the modern day. Bull excrement. The defenseman flubs the pass, can’t stick check, the center sprints to the net and stays there despite the play already going the other way, and the other defender falls down.

I’m sorry, I know I’m being a debby downer on an all-time goal, but Mario was ahead of his time because of things like this. Can’t really take one of his best goals, which imo is partially due to some particularly bad defensive play, and then say “oh ya this would carry for 82 games.” I don’t think that whole play design even happens in the modern game, whose bright idea was it to allow Mario to iso the defenseman with the puck? Oof.

 

[WalterLundy]

Actually he was "close." He's #2 all time in APG behind Gretzky, less than 2 tenths of an assist per game behind him. No one else is closer, or even remotely close to that.

He's also #1 all time in pp goals per game by a wide margin. Many, many of those were right-handed one-timers from the dot, where Ovechkin likes to shoot from too!

While playing 572 less games…..
Per game rates are more preserved if you miss time like Lemieux did. Gretzky played the last 562 games of his career as a shadow of his former self lowering his per game rates tremendously. That started in 91-92 and up to then he had already played 10 more games than Lemieux’s entire career averaging 1.54 assists per game through the 925 from 1980 to 1991 for his first 12 seasons. Lemieux didn’t take nearly as big of a per game hit because he played only 170 games after 1997. His first 12 seasons Lemieux averaged 1.18. 1.54 to 1.18 is not close much like everything when sample sizes are made even between the two.

Gretzky had 11 consecutive 100 assist and above seasons. More than anyone did for points let alone assists (consecutive or total) Lemieux has one. Gretzky’s career high in assists is 163 to Lemieux’s 114. He never paced to come within 40 assists of that in 80 games. I’m sorry but this is one of those areas where there is someone that truly is lapping the NHL historical field. Gretzky and Lemieux aren’t close at assists. Nobody is close so no knock on Mario.