Nathaniel Skywalker
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2013
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Transport 93 Lemieux into july 2023? Read op
- Thread starter Nathaniel Skywalker
- Start date
Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
A sick/injured Mario couldnt be stopped with a defenseman waterskiing off him. Healthy and with todays interference rules? He would break the season point record.
The defencemen can actually skate today though.A sick/injured Mario couldnt be stopped with a defenseman waterskiing off him. Healthy and with todays interference rules? He would break the season point record.
PensandCaps
Beddy Tlueger
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Calderon
Registered User
- Mar 24, 2006
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I'd say he'd be a clear frontrunner in points with a balanced distribution between goals and assists. The best goal scorer and top3 if not the outright leader in assists. He'd thrive on the PP as he did back then.
umma gumma
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- Apr 8, 2005
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Well, during the dead puck era in 00-01 he scored at a similar rate to the top 3 players currently after not having played for 3 years, at 35 years of age.
I'd have to assume that he'd clearly lead the league in scoring. If these three finish around 140 points, Mario would probably be around 180-200, perhaps more.
I'd have to assume that he'd clearly lead the league in scoring. If these three finish around 140 points, Mario would probably be around 180-200, perhaps more.
Shark Finn
∀dministrator
KaseMeOutside
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- Oct 18, 2011
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From a pure talent standpoint, Mario is at worst a top 3 talent ever. He would be doing the same thing McDavid is doing
HFpapi
Registered User
I know hockey math doesn't really work in reality (this guy was good when this guy was in the league who was good when this guy was in the league who was good when this guy was in the league and so) but with Mario it's different.
In 02/03 Mario was old and broken down and by 60-ish % of the way through the season he was absolutely running away with the scoring title. Injuries and slowing down at the end meant he "only" finished with 91 points in 67 games (Forsberg won with 106 points).
This is a year when Joe Thornton was already a 100 point performer. Thornton would score 125 points in 2006 with Crosby and Ovechkin already in the league.
There's no reason to think prime, healthy, 25 year old Lemieux wouldn't be getting 180 points in this environment.
In 02/03 Mario was old and broken down and by 60-ish % of the way through the season he was absolutely running away with the scoring title. Injuries and slowing down at the end meant he "only" finished with 91 points in 67 games (Forsberg won with 106 points).
This is a year when Joe Thornton was already a 100 point performer. Thornton would score 125 points in 2006 with Crosby and Ovechkin already in the league.
There's no reason to think prime, healthy, 25 year old Lemieux wouldn't be getting 180 points in this environment.
Wally1112pac
Three Year Rebuild lol
- Jul 10, 2019
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A healthy Mario would put up video game numbers if he played today.
He could get 180+ points and 80 goals. I mean he did it in ‘96 (pace wise over 70 games) when the scoring was the same as this year…after a year off.
Gretzky was better in his early career but I personally believe that 25-30 years old Lemieux is the best hockey player ever.
Gretzky was better in his early career but I personally believe that 25-30 years old Lemieux is the best hockey player ever.
Fledgemyhedge
Registered User
180-200 if everything goes right. sweeps awards 9 times out of 10 simulations. Total domination and is probably viewed as the GOAT
WalterLundy
Registered User
1992-93: EVG: 2.44, PPG: 1.03, SHG: 0.15
2023-24: EVG: 2.35, PPG: 0.64, SHG: 0.09
93 ML: 60 GP: 59 G, 73 A, 132 P (2.20)
The era adjustment stat tells us he’d be between 165-180 if he played 75-82 games like you mentioned and flirting with a goal per game. I’d say 75 goals, 95 assists in 82 games now for 170 just because we don’t have the powerplay TOI figures from back then and we know that in 88, 89, 93 and 96 he was prolific there playing way more on the PP unit than he would now. Same with shorthanded deployment. Total TOI being down would shave 10 points or so off of his adjusted total. He’d be good enough even strength from his ‘93 version regardless. He would be around 20 points better than peak McDavid. It would be Matthews goals combined with Kucherov assists this year.
2023-24: EVG: 2.35, PPG: 0.64, SHG: 0.09
93 ML: 60 GP: 59 G, 73 A, 132 P (2.20)
The era adjustment stat tells us he’d be between 165-180 if he played 75-82 games like you mentioned and flirting with a goal per game. I’d say 75 goals, 95 assists in 82 games now for 170 just because we don’t have the powerplay TOI figures from back then and we know that in 88, 89, 93 and 96 he was prolific there playing way more on the PP unit than he would now. Same with shorthanded deployment. Total TOI being down would shave 10 points or so off of his adjusted total. He’d be good enough even strength from his ‘93 version regardless. He would be around 20 points better than peak McDavid. It would be Matthews goals combined with Kucherov assists this year.
- Feb 10, 2010
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He probably bitches a whole bunch and then quits - just like he did in real life.
WalterLundy
Registered User
1988-89: EVG: 2.53, PPG: 1.06, SHG: 0.15
1992-93: EVG: 2.44, PPG: 1.03, SHG: 0.15
1995-96: EVG: 2.10, PPG: 0.90, SHG: 0.14
2023-24: EVG: 2.35, PPG: 0.64, SHG: 0.09
All three of his best in 2024 levels:
‘93 ML: 60 GP: 59 G, 73 A, 132 P (2.20)
(45 EVG, 10 PPG, 4 SHG)
(47 EVA, 24 PPA, 2 SHA)
‘89 ML: 76 GP: 65 G, 89 A, 154 P (2.03)
(38 EVG, 19 PPG, 8 SHG)
(57 EVA, 29 PPA, 3 SHA)
‘96 ML: 70 GP: 60 G, 83 A, 143 P (2.04)
(33 EVG, 22 PPG, 5 SHG)
(48 EVA, 34 PPA, 1 SHA)
1996 total Goals per game was virtually the same as today with even strength being a bit lower but powerplay (and overall special teams) was not. It was 1980-1993 live puck era average in that regard. Couple that with one of two absolute peak Jagr seasons and Ron Francis on a powerplay in which the penguins racked up their points on that year and the 1996 year is the same as his 1989 one statistically. We know in reality that 1989 was a far superior player to 1996 and did so with a far worse supporting cast. 1996 Lemieux wouldn’t do what he did then in this environment for these reasons (he’d still be the best player this season even as that version).
Essentially you have 82 game paces in 2024 levels of 180 for 1993 on arguably the most stacked team I’ve ever watched (Mario’s second best version to my eye who was there for 15-20 games per year), 167 for 1996 where he had a very top heavy stacked offensive juggernaut team with the perfect conditions to rack up points and 166 in 1989 with a poor supporting cast outside of Coffey.
We know that his time on ice would be lower to go with these numbers already transferred into this years scoring environment so it’s fair to assume that he loses another 5-10 points just based off of lower TOI at even strength powerplay and short handed. To my eye 1996 Mario was around 2023 McDavid level which makes sense if he is now at 133 in 70 (1.90). To me 1989 was his best eye test but I can’t ignore 1993’s even strength dominance.
- Apr 27, 2005
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You mean prime Mario, the guy who paced for 96 goals and 224 points when nobody else scored 150? Yeah I think he'd be out in front by a good amount.
Heck, 35 year old Lemieux missed 3 years and just stepped into the league and put up points at the same rate as the league's current leaders . . . in the dead puck era, lapping prime Jagr, Sakic, and Forsberg. There were only 2 100 point scorers that season, and Lemieux still paced for 145 points.
Rusty 35 year old Lemieux would be leading the league by a fair amount IMO. Prime Lemieux? They'd have to stop calling penalties against him to make it fair.
Heck, 35 year old Lemieux missed 3 years and just stepped into the league and put up points at the same rate as the league's current leaders . . . in the dead puck era, lapping prime Jagr, Sakic, and Forsberg. There were only 2 100 point scorers that season, and Lemieux still paced for 145 points.
Rusty 35 year old Lemieux would be leading the league by a fair amount IMO. Prime Lemieux? They'd have to stop calling penalties against him to make it fair.
Steven Toast
Registered User
Goalies can make stops too.
McShogun99
Registered User
Transport Lemieux to any era and he’ll still be putting up over 150 point seasons. He is probably the best overall talent in NHL history.
His size, skill and play style would hold up no mater what year he played in.
His size, skill and play style would hold up no mater what year he played in.
Craig Button
The C is for Coward - Brad Marchand 2024
Imagine being able to watch Lemieux play again.
Damn.
Feel bad for the young kids who missed out.
Damn.
Feel bad for the young kids who missed out.
Video Nasty
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- Mar 12, 2017
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Let’s put it this way. I think Lemieux would already have the Art Ross locked up this season if he outright missed the two games sat due to injury and the 8-10 games after McDavid was rushed back to clearly play through that injury.
That’s the difference between them as players.
However, Mario won’t be able to get away with chewing through cigarettes, eating like a pig, and not bothering to stretch/lift/condition for long in this era. He would start missing significant time again as early as the following season.
That’s the difference between them as players.
However, Mario won’t be able to get away with chewing through cigarettes, eating like a pig, and not bothering to stretch/lift/condition for long in this era. He would start missing significant time again as early as the following season.
WalterLundy
Registered User
His 82 game pace was 219 in 1993 as they don’t have an 84 game season like then. I agree that 89 or 93 Lemieux playing all 82 games would clear the three guys pacing 140s by 25-30 this particular season.
2001 was unreal for a 35 year old (any player actually) but you can’t take a 145 pace seriously. He returned in late December and only played 43 games. From his return date to the end of the season he was actually outscored by his teammate Jagr for points and points per game (84 to 76 and 1.87 to 1.76 respectively). That’s not a knock at all but to say that 35 year old Lemieux is as good as the three Ross leaders this year is a massive stretch.
Also even though I agree that his peak versions would clearly be the best in this league he would still be getting 30% less power play opportunities as well as 30% less league wide power play goals scored. That needs to be considered and would lower his totals at any version. 160-180 is the proper range for his peak versions in 2022-2024 levels. Anyone saying he’d score 200 now means that he’d be way more dominant now than back when scoring was significantly higher (and he never actually hit 200 only pacing twice). It would be the equivalent of 240 in 76 games back then as opposed to the actual 199 in 76. It’s just silly to even suggest that.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Except 35 year old Lemieux didn't even lead the NHL in points even if we just restrict it to the games he played in. And then his PPG went down over time until he went 6 games with no goals and a .5 PPG. But okay.
