Transport 93 Lemieux into july 2023? Read op

[666]

This thread is disrespecting McDavid. Replace a healthy prime McDavid (has he peaked yet) with a healthy prime Lemieux, on today's Edmonton team and McDavid is going to surprise some people.

 

[paracord]

While playing 572 less games…..
Per game rates are more preserved if you miss time like Lemieux did. Gretzky played the last 562 games of his career as a shadow of his former self lowering his per game rates tremendously. That started in 91-92 and up to then he had already played 10 more games than Lemieux’s entire career averaging 1.54 assists per game through the 925 from 1980 to 1991 for his first 12 seasons. Lemieux didn’t take nearly as big of a per game hit because he played only 170 games after 1997. His first 12 seasons Lemieux averaged 1.18. 1.54 to 1.18 is not close much like everything when sample sizes are made even between the two.

Gretzky had 11 consecutive 100 assist and above seasons. More than anyone did for points let alone assists (consecutive or total) Lemieux has one. Gretzky’s career high in assists is 163 to Lemieux’s 114. He never paced to come within 40 assists of that in 80 games. I’m sorry but this is one of those areas where there is someone that truly is lapping the NHL historical field. Gretzky and Lemieux aren’t close at assists. Nobody is close so no knock on Mario.

You say tomato, I say tomato.

No one is arguing Gretzy's stats. Sometimes the eye test is all that is needed. Mario was every bit the super human playmaker that Gretzky was. He didn't play in the early 1980s with 4 other hall of famers cashing in his beautiful passes. And Lemieux was more goal-scoring oriented his entire career, because he was a better goal scorer.

My original statement of "the playmaking of Gretzky" wasn't meant to be an exact statement to be dissected with a slide rule. If it makes you happy I'll say he was 99.2% the playmaker of Gretzky. Same difference. Mega elite, and better than everyone else except for Gretzky in history.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The defencemen can actually skate today though.

Yeah, not like that scrub Paul Coffey….

Btw, for kicks go watch Lemieux vs Ray Bourque. He absolutely destroyed him on a few occasions.



And his first NHL shift:



One of the best blueliners in the league and he clowns him.

There’d be no stopping this guy.

 

[paracord]

This thread is disrespecting McDavid. Replace a healthy prime McDavid (has he peaked yet) with a healthy prime Lemieux, on today's Edmonton team and McDavid is going to surprise some people.

The argument of McDavid vs. Lemieux comes up a lot lately. I don't think McDavid is even close to Lemieux in goal scoring ability. For that reason he's never going to be in that conversation as an all time player.

 

[666]

The argument of McDavid vs. Lemieux comes up a lot lately. I don't think McDavid is even close to Lemieux in goal scoring ability. For that reason he's never going to be in that conversation as an all time player.

McDavid scored 64 last season so he can do it, he just appears to not want to play that way, but I suspect that it has a lot to do with his teammates.

 

[Kudelski37]

Every rule change in the last 20 years has been to increase scoring. Lemieux would break 200 points easily. By how much is the interesting question.

 

[paracord]

McDavid scored 64 last season so he can do it, he just appears to not want to play that way, but I suspect that it has a lot to do with his teammates.

There's no doubt that he's a super elite goal scorer all time. But we're talking about comparing him to Mario Lemieux. He has to put up a lot more in the goal scoring department to be in that conversation.

 

[666]

There's no doubt that he's a super elite goal scorer all time. But we're talking about comparing him to Mario Lemieux. He has to put up a lot more in the goal scoring department to be in that conversation.

I think he could if he was on a different team. It's difficult to compare eras but it's even harder to compare eras and then teams. Mario was on cup winning teams, McDavid, well.... is not.

 

[WalterLundy]

You say tomato, I say tomato.

No one is arguing Gretzy's stats. Sometimes the eye test is all that is needed. Mario was every bit the super human playmaker that Gretzky was. He didn't play in the early 1980s with 4 other hall of famers cashing in his beautiful passes. And Lemieux was more goal-scoring oriented his entire career, because he was a better goal scorer.

My original statement of "the playmaking of Gretzky" wasn't meant to be an exact statement to be dissected with a slide rule. If it makes you happy I'll say he was 99.2% the playmaker of Gretzky. Same difference. Mega elite, and better than everyone else except for Gretzky in history.

You can take Lemieux’s three best assist per game seasons and combine them (89, 92 and 93) and that assist per game rate is still lower than 89-91 LA Kings Gretzky’s assist per game rate. 1991 Gretzky with 122 in 78 would still be the record if Edmonton years are removed since he had help and Mario never did (he actually did and lots of it).

You don’t need to say anything you don’t mean to make me happy here. If your opinion is that he’s the best playmaker then that’s what it is. He probably is second out of the guys I’ve seen in that regard but McDavid with adjustments is slightly higher for best seasons. I think the vast majority of hockey fans that were around to watch would tell you that the playmaking eye test is in clear favor of Gretzky here. Again you and others can say Lemieux was a better goal scorer and there would actually be a legit argument because the stats for their best seasons and even sample size games are close. Not so for assists and sadly stats do need to be brought up. If eye test were all that mattered then guys like Bure, Fedorov and Datsyuk would be way higher on a list than in reality.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think he could if he was on a different team. It's difficult to compare eras but it's even harder to compare eras and then teams. Mario was on cup winning teams, McDavid, well.... is not.

Mario Lemieux had Rob Brown as his winger in 1989. He was on some terrible clubs.

 

[paracord]

I think he could if he was on a different team. It's difficult to compare eras but it's even harder to compare eras and then teams. Mario was on cup winning teams, McDavid, well.... is not.

Well, I'll tell you this: The 2020-24 Edmonton Oilers are A LOT better than the 1985-1990 Pittsburgh Penguins.

 

[666]

Well, I'll tell you this: The 2020-24 Edmonton Oilers are A LOT better than the 1985-1990 Pittsburgh Penguins.

Maybe all teams this year are better than all the teams back then. All we can really say is that Mario team won cups (probably because of him) and McDavid's team only makes the playoffs (probably because of him).

 

[666]

Mario Lemieux had Rob Brown as his winger in 1989. He was on some terrible clubs.

You mean 49 goal 66 assist Rob Brown? Sounds pretty similar to 53 goal 22 assist Hands Hyman.

 

[JBHockey]

I did not read all the post so I am probably repeating someone else has already said, Mario Lemieux is the best player I have ever seen play the game so far.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You mean 49 goal 66 assist Rob Brown? Sounds pretty similar to 53 goal 22 assist Hands Hyman.

No… not even close.

And McDavid has Drai. It’s not like there’s no talent there. The Pens were a tire fire for a while. The only guy Lemieux had to work with was Coffey and he showed up four years into Lemieux’s career

 

[devo09]

I think he puts up 160-165 points. That might not seem like enough but you need to remember the parity in the league nowadays.

 

[kevsh]

I don't know exactly what his numbers would be but I'm confident that to keep things fair, we wouldn't be allowed to draft him in fantasy pools.

 

[666]

No… not even close.

And McDavid has Drai. It’s not like there’s no talent there. The Pens were a tire fire for a while. The only guy Lemieux had to work with was Coffey and he showed up four years into Lemieux’s career

I don't know man, two years later the Pens won the cup and Mario only played 26 regular season games. You take McDavid off of this years Oilers and they don't sniff the playoffs.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The defencemen can actually skate today though.

LOL Paul Coffey, Brian Leetch, Scott Niedermayer all played against Mario. They could skate.

 

[redwings25]

Mario when he came back after cancer would get 200 points with a wood stick.and i am Not a penguins fan. Dude was crazy dominant

 

[gretzkyoilers]

Yeah, not like that scrub Paul Coffey….

Btw, for kicks go watch Lemieux vs Ray Bourque. He absolutely destroyed him on a few occasions.



And his first NHL shift:



One of the best blueliners in the league and he clowns him.

There’d be no stopping this guy.

And in 10 years you re-watch McDavid blast by defenders in the same manner saying that the defenders were lousy when McDavid played, etc. All star forwards make all star defenders look silly quite often!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't know man, two years later the Pens won the cup and Mario only played 26 regular season games. You take McDavid off of this years Oilers and they don't sniff the playoffs.

They added a bunch of great players like Recchi, Francis, some kid named Jagr and a HOF goalie.

Steve Yzerman played for terrible teams, so did Joe Sakic. People forget how bad those teams were and only think about the powerhouses. It wasn’t always that way.

Ken Dryden for example gets no credit because people remember the great clubs, but they don’t remember his massive upset wins in 71.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And in 10 years you re-watch McDavid blast by defenders in the same manner saying that the defenders were lousy when McDavid played, etc. All star forwards make all star defenders look silly quite often!

I love Connor McDavid. Best player in the league and might well be a top ten player when he’s done.

But he has never, ever approached the dominance of Lemieux. And there’s no shame in that. Mario Lemieux might be the best player of all time. He didn’t have the best career - that’s unquestionably Gretzky - but when he was healthy, he was every bit as good if not better. He’d benefit more than any other player with today’s obstruction rules.

 

[PaulD]

True.


Envy? He’s my second favorite player ever, behind only Gretzky.

Apologies. I take that comment back with sincerity.
Cheers

 

[Crosby2010]

Heres the hypothetical. We somehow transport 27 year old 93 mario into july 2023. Giving him 3 months to get into shape and test out new skate and stick technology for 3 months over the summer. He then starts opening night as the pens 1st line center. What are the results in 75-82 games healthy?

Kucherov has 139, MacKinnon 137, McDavid 130. So we all agree a healthy Mario in 1993 has 190-200 by now? With 4 games left.

So to answer your question, he's utterly dominant. Almost by an unfair margin.