GDT: Training Camp 2023

[Brownie to Pancakes]

My balanced take is that this team has a chance if the young guns take the next step. If a couple of the Byfield/Laf/Kaliyev/Turcotte group make big impacts then all it takes is an Arvi and/or Moore trade to get cap for a goalie upgrade. Same can be said at RHD with Roy. I know that's a lot of ifs and we shouldn't be backed into the corner this way, but I still see a pathway out

 

[Bandit]

f*** Cal Peterson…..that is all

Yeah because if someone offered you a 10mil contract, you’d say “thanks, but have you thought of your salary cap???”

f*** Blake for being a dipshit.

My balanced take is that this team has a chance if the young guns take the next step. If a couple of the Byfield/Laf/Kaliyev/Turcotte group make big impacts then all it takes is an Arvi and/or Moore trade to get cap for a goalie upgrade. Same can be said at RHD with Roy. I know that's a lot of ifs and we shouldn't be backed into the corner this way, but I still see a pathway out

Except Blake’s MO would be to keep Arvi and Moore and trade the kids that are succeeding.

 

[Gjwrams]

Yeah because if someone offered you a 10mil contract, you’d say “thanks, but have you thought of your salary cap???”

f*** Blake for being a dipshit.

Regardless of the price tag, it hurts because Blake thought he had his goalie and it didn’t happen. All this cap shit is a result of a big contract for a player that didn’t pan out.

im not blaming Cal for taking it. I’m mad at Cal for becoming a marginal ECHL goalie within seconds of executing the contract, thus my “f*** Cal Pederson” comment.

 

[Bandit]

Regardless of the price tag, it hurts because Blake thought he had his goalie and it didn’t happen. All this cap shit is a result of a big contract for a player that didn’t pan out.

im not blaming Cal for taking it. I’m mad at Cal for becoming a marginal ECHL goalie within seconds of executing the contract, thus my “f*** Cal Pederson” comment.

Yeah Blake thought he had his goalie. Whose fault is that? If you think you’re in love after 2 dates, buy her a mansion cash in her name and come home to find her in bed with someone else, that’s on you.

 

[Sol]

What are you talking about being a +1? They finished with a +23 . 280 GF-257 GA
Or am I misunderstanding your point?

View attachment 750810

No you got it right. I misremembered. I must have mixed up the fact they took so late to get into the positive differential with a random stat.

 

[johnjm22]

Dubois is a talented player who didn't fulfill an immediate need while also inadverently hurting long-term organizational needs. I like him more than I did at the time of the trade, and he's showing quick chemistry with Fiala, but the Kings weren't a PLD away from beating Edmonton.

They had Kopitar and Danault - two very good centers and they also could've kept Byfield at 3rd line center and let him develop as a C. Lizotte as a 3C was concerning for the playoffs sure, but they weren't tied to that. Like I said, they could've rolled with Kopitar, Danault, Byfield, and Lizotte as their center core this year which still would've been very solid.

Obviously strength down the middle is great and adding Dubois improves that. But I would've ranked goaltending, penalty kill, and grit/toughness as more urgent offseason needs before center depth.

How can you say such things so confidently? kings could try byfield at center? Who could the Kings try in goal? The Kings number 1 need was goaltending and you can argue pretty easily another LD and center being one or the other. Considering the fact the Kings had a plus 1 goal differential at the end of the regular season, you’re going to say they were needing more offense? You’re just straight up wrong. Come on.

Yeah definitely needed a 3rd center making 5.5m or more when all three goalies are a wet piece of lens tissue.

Center was an immediate need. The primary issue for the Kings in the playoffs each of the last 2 years was only having 2 functioning forwards lines. The reason they've only had 2 functioning lines is because their lack of center.

We needed LHD and goalie also. Thus Gavrikov was acquired/signed. It makes more sense to allocate resources to C/LHD than to netminder because the latter is more random and heavily influenced by team defense.

Yeah, couldn't disagree with you more.

This team is STILL closer to missing the playoffs than contending. The correct move was prioritizing the development of cost-controlled production and creating a new leadership infrastructure.

Fiala and Dubois are just like I said - plastic surgery on a menopausal lady and pretending she's hot again.

Literally nothing will change until they shift from maintaining a broken franchise model into the growth of a new one dictated by the strengths, weaknesses and attitude of a new generation of Kings that isn't constantly patting itself on the back and collecting mega checks for something that happened a decade ago.

You're talking about something different.

If the goal is to win THIS SEASON center is what they need most.

Your analysis is correct if we're talking about trying to build for the future.

You can argue all day long that that we shouldn't be in win now mode, and you might be right, but it's a different discussion.

 

[tigermask48]

Going to be a long season….both sides of these arguments “know” they’re right, won’t stop arguing with opposing side on the same topics for the past 2 seasons now.

Naw, I would love to be proven wrong because that means the Kings are doing well. I just don't see how it happens, but I do wish I'm wrong and this team wins 82 games this season and 16 more in the playoffs.

You can in fact not like the direction of your team while still remaining a fan of that team.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Naw, I would love to be proven wrong because that means the Kings are doing well. I just don't see how it happens, but I do wish I'm wrong and this team wins 82 games this season and 16 more in the playoffs.

You can in fact not like the direction of your team while still remaining a fan of that team.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 

[lumbergh]

Waive Lizotte problem solved

Honestly I'm surprised Lizotte wasn't traded. His cap hit is worth almost exactly two ELCs. The Kings must not trust JAD to play a decent 4C.

 

[bland]

These are the things I am really excited about this year:

I think Kempe is going to REALLY break out this year and pass the 50 mark and become one of the most feared snipers in the game going forward.

I honestly feel that you are doing your team a disservice by having your #1C being a matchup center, and it has hurt the Kings over and over throughout Kopitar's career. You need an offensive threat that FORCES matchups and schemes against you to open it up for the other lines. I think there is a real chance that Dubois and Fiala form that kind of line here, and I hope they get treated like one if they earn it.

Its always a joy to watch Trevor Lewis play. Selling out all the time, reading and making the right plays. He is just a pure hockey player. That is going to be a very effective 4th line.

It feels like things may be coming together for Turcotte. That is a real asset there.

Its not a surprise that Laferriere could step right in. Looking like he could be a potential long term fit with two players who will more or less be the franchise shortly, that is a very nice surprise.

 

[King'sPawn]

Center was an immediate need. The primary issue for the Kings in the playoffs each of the last 2 years was only having 2 functioning forwards lines. The reason they've only had 2 functioning lines is because their lack of center.

How many functioning lines did Edmonton have in the playoffs?

Did billy ranford get kicked upstairs so far that he does t work with the lads directly any more?

He needs to create another goalie out of thin air for us

Ranford's role in the organization has changed.

LA Kings Promote Bill Ranford to Director of Goaltending | Los Angeles Kings

Kings goaltending department features new roles for Ranford and Matt Millar

www.nhl.com

In his new role, Ranford will oversee all aspects of the organization's goaltending department, including coaching, development, programming and scouting. In addition, Matt Millar has been named North American Goalie Scout and will see him support Ranford and the club's goaltending objectives. The Kings are actively pursuing candidates to fill goaltending coach roles at both the NHL and AHL level.

And that goaltender coaching role was later filled by Mike Buckley: Official Los Angeles Kings Website | Los Angeles Kings

 

[lumbergh]

Idk.... I feel like if the Kings had a good #1 goalie, they would legitimately be a contender - And I'm fairly certain most people around the league would agree with that. They're already a top 10 team in the league despite terrible goaltending.

And by contender I mean top team in the league (not Stanley Cup favorite necessarily, just a top team that would have a legitimately reasonable chance to win a cup - Not a dark horse team who could MAYBE go on a run).

Obviously that's a big 'IF' - But the thing is, they have the pieces to make that a reality. It might sting (would probably mean losing Arvy or Roy)... but they also kind of have the organizational depth to make up for that. And yeah, it would probably further sacrifice the future.... But maybe sacrificing the future is worth it to have 1-3 years with a legit chance to bring home a Stanley cup.

I'm not saying it's the best approach from management (it's super risky) - But if it works will we really be mad about entering into another rebuild 3-4 years from now?? Of course not.

Maybe they do make a big move sometime this season and bring in a guy like Saros.. If that happens this team would be insanely tough to beat - Even with potential PK/toughness issues.

The last 8 Cup winners featured Matt Murray/MA Fleury, Braden Holtby, Jordan Binnington, Andrei Vasilevskiy, Darcy Kuemper, and Adin Hill as the goalies. At the beginning of those seasons, Vasilevskiy is probably the only one out of that list that is a consensus top 10 goalie in the league, maybe Fleury or Holtby. You don't need a top flight goaltender to be a contender in today's NHL.

 

[chris kontos]

How many functioning lines did Edmonton have in the playoffs?

Ranford's role in the organization has changed.

LA Kings Promote Bill Ranford to Director of Goaltending | Los Angeles Kings

Kings goaltending department features new roles for Ranford and Matt Millar

www.nhl.com

And that goaltender coaching role was later filled by Mike Buckley: Official Los Angeles Kings Website | Los Angeles Kings

Brilliant!

 

[AbsentMojo]

Honestly I'm surprised Lizotte wasn't traded. His cap hit is worth almost exactly two ELCs. The Kings must not trust JAD to play a decent 4C.

Thats exactly my point re the cap and ability to fit two league min for his cap hit. He is also not high value in the post season - so highly expendable in my opinion... sorry @Shellz

 

[KingsHockey24]

Thats exactly my point re the cap and ability to fit two league min for his cap hit. He is also not high value in the post season - so highly expendable in my opinion... sorry @Shellz

Maybe management believes this is the year Lizotte runs face first into the boards a little too hard and goes on LTIR.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The last 8 Cup winners featured Matt Murray/MA Fleury, Braden Holtby, Jordan Binnington, Andrei Vasilevskiy, Darcy Kuemper, and Adin Hill as the goalies. At the beginning of those seasons, Vasilevskiy is probably the only one out of that list that is a consensus top 10 goalie in the league, maybe Fleury or Holtby. You don't need a top flight goaltender to be a contender in today's NHL.

Murray was absolutely nails before his injuries, he was a high-pedigree goalie and a stud-in-waiting for anyone that was paying attention, this would be like being suprised if Askarov of Wallstedt debuted hot. MAF is a roller coaster, sure, but no one would say he wasn't a top-10 goalie.
Holtby was absolutely an elite goalie.
Binnington was lightning in a bottle resurrecting a Blues team that was dead last. That was a prayer, not a plan.
Vas is a top goalie.
Kuemper's save percentage is good for 20th all time and 6th amongst active goalies--he's not a hall of famer but when he's healthy he's a stud and underrated.
Adin Hill, like Binnington, wasn't a plan, he was 4th man up, 5th if you count Quick's attempt.

All of those Cup teams entered those seasons with either an elite/top tier goalie or had one find lightning in a bottle after everything went wrong--not one of them PLANNED on having a mediocre goalie help them to the promised land, which is different between them and Rob Blake's lottery plan of trying out three scratchers and praying. The Blues had missed the playoffs the previous year and were a strong team but a 'surprise' champion and they started the season with Jake Allen. Vegas was a true contender who was entering the season with Lehner and Broissoit and when they were hurt they had a stud prospect in Thompson...it was only when he got hurt that Hill came in.

the biggest myth in the league is the 'you just need league average goaltending' thing that's been oddly persistent since 2010 when it's clearly the exception to the rule AND the exceptions weren't planned like "this is our guy" they were accidents teams fell into after their initial plans failed. And no one but Blake has gone out and gotten THREE .900 goaltenders on a budget and marched them out as a contender. When you're playing the best and the best and your teams are roughly evenly matched a goalie on fire can make a difference and you would think watching Quick bail us out in big moments for years would solidify that opinion. "just league average" goaltending is fine for one-off non-conference games in december but no one on earth is saying "yeah I'm so glad I have Dave Rittich for 7 games vs. Connor McDavid."

 

[kingsfan28]

Maybe management believes this is the year Lizotte runs face first into the boards a little too hard and goes on LTIR.

Did you see his first shift against the sharks? Right into the boards.

 

[kingsfan28]

Honestly I'm surprised Lizotte wasn't traded. His cap hit is worth almost exactly two ELCs. The Kings must not trust JAD to play a decent 4C.

Or really really love Lizzos hustle and somehow think he can play 4c against anyone.
Wish they'd rebuilt the 4th line altogether with guys over 5-10".

 

[BaileyFan]

Murray was absolutely nails before his injuries, he was a high-pedigree goalie and a stud-in-waiting for anyone that was paying attention, this would be like being suprised if Askarov of Wallstedt debuted hot. MAF is a roller coaster, sure, but no one would say he wasn't a top-10 goalie.
Holtby was absolutely an elite goalie.
Binnington was lightning in a bottle resurrecting a Blues team that was dead last. That was a prayer, not a plan.
Vas is a top goalie.
Kuemper's save percentage is good for 20th all time and 6th amongst active goalies--he's not a hall of famer but when he's healthy he's a stud and underrated.
Adin Hill, like Binnington, wasn't a plan, he was 4th man up, 5th if you count Quick's attempt.

All of those Cup teams entered those seasons with either an elite/top tier goalie or had one find lightning in a bottle after everything went wrong--not one of them PLANNED on having a mediocre goalie help them to the promised land, which is different between them and Rob Blake's lottery plan of trying out three scratchers and praying. The Blues had missed the playoffs the previous year and were a strong team but a 'surprise' champion and they started the season with Jake Allen. Vegas was a true contender who was entering the season with Lehner and Broissoit and when they were hurt they had a stud prospect in Thompson...it was only when he got hurt that Hill came in.

the biggest myth in the league is the 'you just need league average goaltending' thing that's been oddly persistent since 2010 when it's clearly the exception to the rule AND the exceptions weren't planned like "this is our guy" they were accidents teams fell into after their initial plans failed. And no one but Blake has gone out and gotten THREE .900 goaltenders on a budget and marched them out as a contender. When you're playing the best and the best and your teams are roughly evenly matched a goalie on fire can make a difference and you would think watching Quick bail us out in big moments for years would solidify that opinion. "just league average" goaltending is fine for one-off non-conference games in december but no one on earth is saying "yeah I'm so glad I have Dave Rittich for 7 games vs. Connor McDavid."

Both Binnington and Hill also played behind a rock solid big and mean D corps during their Cup runs. The narrative really should be you don't need a great goalie as long as you have 6 redwoods that you can reliably throw over the boards every game, which the Kings currently do not have.

 

[Herby]

In the immediate, C was a much bigger need than goaltending. I don't know if they can win a Stanley Cup with Talbot/Copley, I am guessing probably not, but they aren't dead, teams have made runs with a marginal duo, if one can get hot. With C, I'm pretty confident in saying they weren't winning with Kopitar and Danault as the 1-2. The Kings had to find a way to make Danault the 3C and his line the 3rd line before Kopitar and Doughty got any older, the original path to draft and integrate Kopitar's replacement into the lineup as the 2C and then eventually the 1C simply failed to materialize in the time-frame needed.

Whether the idea to abandon ship on a rebuild to try and win in such a small window by gutting a large portion of your future rather than doing a traditional rebuild is certainly up for debate, but once he went down that path Blake had to get a good 2C this summer. That is why the entire league had PLD as a likely target for the Kings, and why the Kings ultimately offered the best deal. Nobody else had the combination of assets, cap space and more importantly win-now motivation like the Kings did.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Speaking of Blake thinking he has the goods...



2:11 - "We also understood we had to create roster spots for some young players...."

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

The last 8 Cup winners featured Matt Murray/MA Fleury, Braden Holtby, Jordan Binnington, Andrei Vasilevskiy, Darcy Kuemper, and Adin Hill as the goalies. At the beginning of those seasons, Vasilevskiy is probably the only one out of that list that is a consensus top 10 goalie in the league, maybe Fleury or Holtby. You don't need a top flight goaltender to be a contender in today's NHL.

You're right... And it's a solid point.

But it certainly helps and without one you're kind of just hoping one of your goalies gets hot in the playoffs. Which is a huge wildcard.

Pretty sure the only team in recent memory to win a cup without excellent goaltending was the Avalanche 2 seasons ago and that team was just so utterly dominant. Definitely an exception to the norm.

 

[kilowatt]

Speaking of Blake thinking he has the goods...



2:11 - "We also understood we had to create roster spots for some young players...."

"...in Ontario"

 

[King'sPawn]

Speaking of Blake thinking he has the goods...



2:11 - "We also understood we had to create roster spots for some young players...."

What, Blake justvwants to GIVE the young players a spot?

The hilarious thing is he opened up a spot as bottom pairing RD for one of Spence or Clarke to get. Maybe LD as well?

Either way, he put the team so much against the cap that the young players who were going to get roster spots were screwed.

Saying something like that then almost doing a 180 right after that, acquiring Dubois and signing Lewis, is why people question Blake's plan and vision.

 

[ru4reals]

"...in Ontario"

"We also understood we had to create roster spots for some younger players" - Goes and gets aging Trevor Lewis. Just thought that was funny.