Pre-Game Talk: Training Camp 2022/23

[DRW204]

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Heinola last year was better then Morrissey was for the most part in the AHL but I do wonder how much of that was the org completely changing Morrissey's game to one of a defense first player and much of his rookie pro year was going through the growing pains of that. He was dominant his last 15 to 20 games in the AHL though and then never played another game after winning a job in camp the following summer.

That was also the last year of McCambrige coaching and it seems developmentally things changed a lot under Vincent the following year.

i feel like that's accurate. iirc the commentary on morrissey's game wasn't as high as heinola's in the ahl, this is like nearly 10 years ago so forgive me im wrong. heinola has been v strong by those who follow/watch and by stats. so both via qualified eye-test and data/stats/facts/objective analysis. he's had basically equal AHL time as Morrissey, a pretty prominent role as is used in all-situations with a variety of partners over the years. then the pro-mens league in europe to boot where he got pretty high praise for his game as well.

if it's a matter of having him b/c of the PP, there's still going to be 3 vets with big cap-hits ahead of him for the next few years barring a trade ofc. maybe we need a "big buff" type individual to come in and say "give me Heinola"

 

[Duke749]

*shrugs*

 

[Jet]

:dancing banana:

 

[TS Quint]

Dallas had a 37 year old Suter, 35 year old Sekera, and 29/30 year olds Hanley, Hakenpaa and Klinberg on their team. Jets have 32 year old Dillon, 31 year old Schmidt, and 29 year old De Melo as their oldest players.

Did the Jets have anything to gain by playing Heinola here more last year on a team that was poorly coached, and had no effort going into the tank? Moose team gelled well, and his time on the Moose gave him some real chemistry with Perfetti. Did the Jets have anything to gain by burning his ELC, when Morrissey was so injured he couldn't kill penalties, was Heinola going to help that much? That was a tough decision, but all those guys you mentioned battled on broken bones, killing penalties over the course of the year, while Ville got to spend time with his family as an 18 year old, and play in a league he was more suited for at that age.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the development path the Jets have taken with Heinola, maybe the Covid year set him back a bit, but he's improving and that's what you want to see.

His ELC is set to expire when the contracts of De Melo and Dillon expire, which is good timing, for him to hit the ground running, at the mature age of 23, and get paid, with a minimum of 4 years left as a Jet, and 5 seasons with the organization in at least a partial sense already under his belt. The switch this year to the right side gives me hope we'll see a Morrissey-Heinola top pairing down the road.

One thing he needs to get to the same level as Morrissey, which is where I want him to get to, is regular PK reps on the Moose. This is a good year for it, if Samberg is moving up the ladder in this respect, with Kovacevic gone, seems like an opportunity to develop into a complete player, in the utmost sense.

Heinola is nowhere near Morrisey at the same age. Playing PK isn't that bridge.

Maurice's story with Morrissey was he got a call from one of the coaches in rookie camp (i think) saying how good Morrisey is. Maurice assumed they would be talking about his offense. What they were actually impressed by was his ability to come out of the corner with the puck. This is what Heinola needs to figure out. Learn to battle and get the puck. This is the bridge.

Heinola needs to pass more to his team than others. He is clueless in a structured NHL game. He needs to figure that out in the AHL. Until he does he isn't NHL caliber. Causing a turnover once in a while to change things up also wouldn't hurt him.

This fan driven "hand Heinola a spots without earning it, he might figure it out" is such claptrap. He needs to figure it out then get what he has earned.

 

[surixon]

Heinola is nowhere near Morrisey at the same age. Playing PK isn't that bridge.

Heinola needs to pass more to his team than others. He is clueless in a structured NHL game. He needs to figure that out in the AHL. Until he does he isn't NHL caliber. Causing a turnover once in a while to change things up also wouldn't hurt him.

This fan driven "hand Heinola a spots without earning it, he might figure it out" is such claptrap. He needs to figure it out then get what he has earned.

Interesting assessment. I don't really agree with it as I've seen him play a very structured game in the AHL. I see a kid who isn't confident at the NHL level and makes timid and rushed plays at times. When he's assertive and confident he looks like he belongs, he just needs more experience to bring that more consistiently.

 

[Jet]

The team must see something in capobianco that I don’t - he would have easily cleared waivers

We chose a 6’1 lhd with 60 games and terrible fancy stats… and developed in one of the worst systems on the league

Like Kovy would have?

I'm with you - I don't necessarily see why the org likes him so much but I guess we will wait and see?

They could still be trying to actively move a d man and they wanted Capo to be the designated pb guy?

 

[WolfHouse]

Heinola is nowhere near Morrisey at the same age. Playing PK isn't that bridge.

Maurice's story with Morrissey was he got a call from one of the coaches in rookie camp (i think) saying how good Morrisey is. Maurice assumed they would be talking about his offense. What they were actually impressed by was his ability to come out of the corner with the puck. This is what Heinola needs to figure out. Learn to battle and get the puck. This is the bridge.

Heinola needs to pass more to his team than others. He is clueless in a structured NHL game. He needs to figure that out in the AHL. Until he does he isn't NHL caliber. Causing a turnover once in a while to change things up also wouldn't hurt him.

This fan driven "hand Heinola a spots without earning it, he might figure it out" is such claptrap. He needs to figure it out then get what he has earned.

We are not actually using a Maurice presser as ‘fact’ haha… morrissey was called up because otherwise it was Brian Strait

 

[jamiebez]

On a bite of sidenote, not directed to you but in general... Where does the "bowness is good for young dmen" stem from? The average age of Dallas defense (weighted by TOI) was 29 years old last year. I understand Heiskanen performed strongly there, however, he was a high end prospect basically destined to be great. I don't know if Bowness really "made" him, I think you put any coach there and he flourishes. He in fact did with Montgomery as a rookie. Idk if there's enough to conclude if RB is good or bad

His previous gig to Dallas was as one of Jon Cooper's assistants in Tampa, working with the D. Bones received rave reviews for how he worked with Victor Hedman during that time.

Hard to believe now, but Hedman was considered a bit of a bust after 3-4 years in the league, considering how high he was picked. Bowness is often cited as the guy who helped make him into the player he is today.

 

[TS Quint]

Interesting assessment. I don't really agree with it as I've seen him play a very structured game in the AHL. I see a kid who isn't confident at the NHL level and makes timid and rushed plays at times. When he's assertive and confident he looks like he belongs, he just needs more experience to bring that more consistiently.

There is nothing "very structured" in the AHL.

The AHL is a developmental league and by definition doesn't have the structure of the NHL, that is what they are learning it's not the same thing. It's a place where skilled players like Heinola can live off a small high end tool box. He has a choice to keep getting away with his skill or he can learn the puck needs to go where the system is designed. You need to be sure with your long passes and your cross ice passes in the NHL. If they aren't there then you have to know where your options are and where they should be before you get the puck.

 

[Atoyot]

Dallas had a 37 year old Suter, 35 year old Sekera, and 29/30 year olds Hanley, Hakenpaa and Klinberg on their team. Jets have 32 year old Dillon, 31 year old Schmidt, and 29 year old De Melo as their oldest players.

Did the Jets have anything to gain by playing Heinola here more last year on a team that was poorly coached, and had no effort going into the tank? Moose team gelled well, and his time on the Moose gave him some real chemistry with Perfetti. Did the Jets have anything to gain by burning his ELC, when Morrissey was so injured he couldn't kill penalties, was Heinola going to help that much? That was a tough decision, but all those guys you mentioned battled on broken bones, killing penalties over the course of the year, while Ville got to spend time with his family as an 18 year old, and play in a league he was more suited for at that age.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the development path the Jets have taken with Heinola, maybe the Covid year set him back a bit, but he's improving and that's what you want to see.

His ELC is set to expire when the contracts of De Melo and Dillon expire, which is good timing, for him to hit the ground running, at the mature age of 23, and get paid, with a minimum of 4 years left as a Jet, and 5 seasons with the organization in at least a partial sense already under his belt. The switch this year to the right side gives me hope we'll see a Morrissey-Heinola top pairing down the road.

One thing he needs to get to the same level as Morrissey, which is where I want him to get to, is regular PK reps on the Moose. This is a good year for it, if Samberg is moving up the ladder in this respect, with Kovacevic gone, seems like an opportunity to develop into a complete player, in the utmost sense.

Heinola was a regular fixture on the penalty kill last season.

EDIT: I see now that surixon already addressed this.

 

[surixon]

His previous gig to Dallas was as one of Jon Cooper's assistants in Tampa, working with the D. Bones received rave reviews for how he worked with Victor Hedman during that time.

Hard to believe now, but Hedman was considered a bit of a bust after 3-4 years in the league, considering how high he was picked. Bowness is often cited as the guy who helped make him into the player he is today.

Interesting, I did not know about that.

 

[surixon]

There is nothing "very structured" in the AHL.

The AHL is a developmental league and by definition doesn't have the structure of the NHL, that is what they are learning it's not the same thing. It's a place where skilled players like Heinola can live off a small high end tool box. He has a choice to keep getting away with his skill or he can learn the puck needs to go where the system is designed. You need to be sure with your long passes and your cross ice passes in the NHL. If they aren't there then you have to know where your options are and where they should be before you get the puck.

That is a fallacy, teams in the AHL by and large play the same structures as in the NHL. Heck even junior teams by and large use the same structures. The NHL isn't some paradigm of new thinking systems wise. There is a speed and talent discrepancy though and that allows the more skilled to dominate more easily at lower levels but in terms of schemes and systems there isn't anything new at the NHL level.

Also even if what your saying is true I have no idea how he's supposed to learn structured play playing in a league devoid of structure. Based on your logic he'd have to learn it in the NHL.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

:dancing banana:

So, that's your name for it? I call mine Pee Wee Hormone.

 

[Guardian17]

 

[lomiller1]

FWIW Kovy had a solid game in Montreal's opening game win over the Leafs tonight.

 

[Flyby]

FWIW Kovy had a solid game in Montreal's opening game win over the Leafs tonight.

I agree. I thought he looked decent.

 

[Jet]

Sara is just awful.

How many times did she say 'for it' for no reason

 

[Jetsfan79]

This a Jets production. So it's a bit patronizing when you here questions like " Did the Jets make the right decision in doing (fill in the blank). Ofcourse a True North employee will never say it was a bad decision. I rather have Sarah just say "explain the reasoning behind (fill in the blank) " rather than pretending she's asking a edgy question.

 

[leer2006]

Heinola is nowhere near Morrisey at the same age. Playing PK isn't that bridge.

Maurice's story with Morrissey was he got a call from one of the coaches in rookie camp (i think) saying how good Morrisey is. Maurice assumed they would be talking about his offense. What they were actually impressed by was his ability to come out of the corner with the puck. This is what Heinola needs to figure out. Learn to battle and get the puck. This is the bridge.

Heinola needs to pass more to his team than others. He is clueless in a structured NHL game. He needs to figure that out in the AHL. Until he does he isn't NHL caliber. Causing a turnover once in a while to change things up also wouldn't hurt him.

This fan driven "hand Heinola a spots without earning it, he might figure it out" is such claptrap. He needs to figure it out then get what he has earned.

By this then. If Heinola needs to earn his spot what has Stanley done to earn his. He was gifted it on a silver platter at the NHL level due to his size and continues to be gifted it with subpar performances. If we continue to keep these young Dmen in the minors. With no real opportunity to stick with the team. They will eventually ask to be traded so they can get that opportunity elsewhere.

 

[Classic16]

FWIW Kovy had a solid game in Montreal's opening game win over the Leafs tonight.

Looks like he played on the 2nd pair. Good for him.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

By this then. If Heinola needs to earn his spot what has Stanley done to earn his. He was gifted it on a silver platter at the NHL level due to his size and continues to be gifted it with subpar performances. If we continue to keep these young Dmen in the minors. With no real opportunity to stick with the team. They will eventually ask to be traded so they can get that opportunity elsewhere.

I don’t know how you can say Stanley was gifted it due to his size, He didn’t make the NHL until his D+5 season and didn’t even start the season with the Jets, every year after being drafted he worked on bettering his game, he got an opportunity that season and made the most of it.

Heinola is in his D+4 season and hasn’t taken advantage when he gets a chance in the line up, everyone knew he had a good opportunity to make the team this year and he failed to do so, not that Stanley/Samberg had better camps/preseason than him but he definitely wasn’t better than them either.

As horrible as Stanley was last year his stats were all better than Heinola’s.

 

[KingBogo]

By this then. If Heinola needs to earn his spot what has Stanley done to earn his. He was gifted it on a silver platter at the NHL level due to his size and continues to be gifted it with subpar performances. If we continue to keep these young Dmen in the minors. With no real opportunity to stick with the team. They will eventually ask to be traded so they can get that opportunity elsewhere.

Actually the Jets have been very even handed on how they have developed their top D prospects and none have been handed anything. Stanley played 2 full years in the AHL before getting his first taste of NHL action. Then in the final year of his ELC was given an opportunity to move up to the Jets. Samberg as well played 2 years primarily on the Moose and it looks now in the final year of his ELC he will be given his opportunity to earn an NHL position likely at the expense of Stanley. That puts Heinola next up as he is only entering year 2 of his ELC and is younger than both Stanley and Samberg got their opportunities. While I agree Heinola has a higher ceiling than the other 2 he isn’t such a can’t miss prospect that the organization is treating him any differently.

 

[TS Quint]

By this then. If Heinola needs to earn his spot what has Stanley done to earn his. He was gifted it on a silver platter at the NHL level due to his size and continues to be gifted it with subpar performances. If we continue to keep these young Dmen in the minors. With no real opportunity to stick with the team. They will eventually ask to be traded so they can get that opportunity elsewhere.

How quickly we forget 50 short games ago this board was in love with Stanley.

 

[TS Quint]

That is a fallacy, teams in the AHL by and large play the same structures as in the NHL. Heck even junior teams by and large use the same structures. The NHL isn't some paradigm of new thinking systems wise. There is a speed and talent discrepancy though and that allows the more skilled to dominate more easily at lower levels but in terms of schemes and systems there isn't anything new at the NHL level.

Also even if what your saying is true I have no idea how he's supposed to learn structured play playing in a league devoid of structure. Based on your logic he'd have to learn it in the NHL.

It's not the system that is different it's the execution on both sides. Where in a system Heinola is supposed to get the puck in hos own corner move the puck up the board to the winger, the winger makes a 10 foot pass to the middle to the center and out of the zone, Heinola gets the puck in the corner sees the other team has left the middle of the ice open and he makes the 50ft pass to the cross ice winger. Sure that looks good in the AHL but in the NHL that middle isn't open as he thinks and he's serving it up to the other team.

Maybe you can live with some mistakes if he could cause turnovers in the NHL but when I see him without the puck he looks like he is just trying to hold on for dear life to keep himself between the puck and his net. He's not causing turnovers. He's just hoping to hold on long enough that the puck gets moved so someone else can defend and they can cause the turnover. It's great to have a guy who can move the puck but it's pretty hard to take advantage of that when he's defending all the time.

I hope you are right and he's just on the edge of figuring it out. He does look good with the puck in the neutral/ozone/PP. Hopefully he gets the 1st call up and never leaves.

 

[surixon]

It's not the system that is different it's the execution on both sides. Where in a system Heinola is supposed to get the puck in hos own corner move the puck up the board to the winger, the winger makes a 10 foot pass to the middle to the center and out of the zone, Heinola gets the puck in the corner sees the other team has left the middle of the ice open and he makes the 50ft pass to the cross ice winger. Sure that looks good in the AHL but in the NHL that middle isn't open as he thinks and he's serving it up to the other team.

Maybe you can live with some mistakes if he could cause turnovers in the NHL but when I see him without the puck he looks like he is just trying to hold on for dear life to keep himself between the puck and his net. He's not causing turnovers. He's just hoping to hold on long enough that the puck gets moved so someone else can defend and they can cause the turnover. It's great to have a guy who can move the puck but it's pretty hard to take advantage of that when he's defending all the time.

I hope you are right and he's just on the edge of figuring it out. He does look good with the puck in the neutral/ozone/PP. Hopefully he gets the 1st call up and never leaves.

Agreed that the execution is on a much higher level but that sort of plays into my point. He needs NHL speed and players to iron out the wrinkles in his game. He needs to learn what he can and can't do against those players. If he's not put into that position in the AHL then he's not going to grow in those areas.