Salary Cap: Trading Marner a possibility?

[A1LeafNation]

Tyler Biggs, Stuart Percy, Frederik Gauthier, Phillipe Paradis and 30 year old Panarin vs 24 year old Marner?

I take Marner

Is Burke still our GM?

 

[BlueForever75]

So if Marner asks for 10+ and we can trade him for some cheaper players where we save on the cap and better our team elsewhere with savings and acquisitions it isn't good for the Leafs?

I don't buy that, what if we do this trade:

Marner (potentially 10.5 million per season)
Zaitsev (4.5 million per until 23/24 season)
Brown (2.1m/per to 19/20 season)
5th Rounder

for

Parayko (5.5m/per to 20/21 season)
Schenn (5.1m/ per to 19/20 season)
1st Rounder '20
3rd Rounder '20

You wouldn't do this deal? The Leafs save on cap approximately 7 million on cap next season. With arguably a better lineup. Not to mention more cap space to replace other parts in lineup, like on 4th line and defense.

Schenn-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Kapanen
Johnsson-Kadri-UFA/Trade
UFA/Trade-Gauthier-Moore

Reilly-Parayko
Muzzin-Dermott
Rosen-UFA/Trade

Andersen
Sparks

Remember we also have Gardiner, Hainsey, Ennis coming off the books as well. We have money to spend.

 

[sxvnert]

No. You pay Marner the 11m hes worth/asking for and continue to build around that core.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

But the cba is designed to SPECIFICALLY give the gm far far more leverage on their rfa’s. Gm’s just aren’t following the cba any longer?

Yes because it was a garbage Bettman pushed agreement from day 1. We are moving back to a pay for play environment. This is how the free world works. The GMs and the players are doing what the owners want. Bettman is going to have a hard time keeping his agreement in place. That is why he is out there promoting more of same because he knows his bigger market teams are starting to push back. The players are keeping a low profile now because things are changing for the better irrespective of Bettman.

 

[Spirit of 67]

 

[TOGuy14]

Everyone has been making such a big deal about the Leafs salary cap situation over the past couple of months since the Nylander signing. Everyone saying that it is Nylander that needs to be moved to accommodate the salary cap concerns.

My question is with what Stone signed for yesterday with Vegas, the Nylander contract actually isn't that bad considering production and age of the two comparabes. I am going to argue that the Leafs deal with Nylander looks better considering their skill sets.

With that said, if Stone is capable of setting a new bar for wingers at 9.5 million a season for what he brings. This means Marner will easily break 10 million a season.

Is Marner that important to the Leafs future? Can we deal Marner at his age, and skill set for a huge return? Maybe include other contracts (Brown and Zaitsev) in a deal that will not only open cap space but allow us to keep younger players (Kapanen and Johnsson) on team long term, and allow us to fix our defense and skill set on forward lines like we need to!!

What do you think we can get for Marner in a deal with teams? Just curious.

With Stone and Kucherov at 9.5M why would Marner be worth well over 10?

Tableau Public - Marner vs Kuch

Tableau Public - Marner vs Stone

 

[Morgs]

You trade other players in order to fit Marner's salary. Not the other way around

I agree, unless he won't budge from a ridiculous ask. Guy shouldn't be making much more (if even more) than Draisaitl money. The double digit chat has been ridiculous since day 1.

If he won't back down, then I look and see what's out there for him, or match any offer sheet thats less than 4 1sts.

 

[Matthews34]

Based on your pic I take it you are as big as a fan as I in Matthews. He is your future as a #1C. I only state the possibility of trading Marner or having him OS and walking away for the betterment of the team.

I would take 4 1st's from a team and go out and sign Skinner and Ferland in a heartbeat.

If you are a Leaf fan you would too.

So you'd rather have 4 maybes and over priced inferior UFA than our own young superstar? Sometimes I don't get this fan base. We spend decades complaining about this team being unable to draft their own home grown supurstars and after 3 seasons you want to trade him before he even hits his prime. Unbelievable.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yes because it was a garbage Bettman pushed agreement from day 1. We are moving back to a pay for play environment. This is how the free world works. The GMs and the players are doing what the owners want. Bettman is going to have a hard time keeping his agreement in place. That is why he is out there promoting more of same because he knows his bigger market teams are starting to push back. The players are keeping a low profile now because things are changing for the better irrespective of Bettman.

So Dubas ignored the cba, which would have allowed him to sign Matthews and Nylander for far cheaper?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

No Shanny is working Bettman over behind the scenes. A few shots to the head if know what I mean. The Shanny way.

 

[Notsince67]

Stone is fairly comparable to Marner in terms of impact.

If anything the stone contract is a bargaining chip in Dubas's court.

Marner won't get over 10

Stone looks terrible at 8 years. Would have been a better contract at 5 years.
The real leverage is with Marner. If Dubas attempted a trade, he would get fired. No chance in hell they would lose that kid. Just based on comparables to Nylander, he is worth over 10MM over 6 and he has a lot more leverage.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I agree, unless he won't budge from a ridiculous ask. Guy shouldn't be making much more (if even more) than Draisaitl money. The double digit chat has been ridiculous since day 1.

If he won't back down, then I look and see what's out there for him, or match any offer sheet thats less than 4 1sts.

Yeah, that's fair. Apparently his camp wants Matthews' money, which doesn't bode well

 

[Mess]

With Stone and Kucherov at 9.5M why would Marner be worth well over 10?

Tableau Public - Marner vs Kuch

Tableau Public - Marner vs Stone

The GM doing the signing determines the contract value and term.

If Marner gets more than Kucherov and Stone then there is only one GM (outside of an offersheet) to point the finger at to get your answer.

 

[nsleaf]

Based on your pic I take it you are as big as a fan as I in Matthews. He is your future as a #1C. I only state the possibility of trading Marner or having him OS and walking away for the betterment of the team.

I would take 4 1st's from a team and go out and sign Skinner and Ferland in a heartbeat.

If you are a Leaf fan you would too.

Complete BS.

 

[4thline]

So Dubas ignored the cba, which would have allowed him to sign Matthews and Nylander for far cheaper?

Detail, step by step, how the CBA should have enabled getting Matthews cheaper.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Detail, step by step, how the CBA should have enabled getting Matthews cheaper.

Do agents hold extra leverage over rfa’s? Or are you denying that? You tell me.

 

[BlueForever75]

So you'd rather have 4 maybes and over priced inferior UFA than our own young superstar? Sometimes I don't get this fan base. We spend decades complaining about this team being unable to draft their own home grown supurstars and after 3 seasons you want to trade him before he even hits his prime. Unbelievable.

We are in a salary cap era, the years where we didn't take advantage was prior. Now it is about staying under the cap while icing the best team. I would take 4 1st's from a team and use the $$$ elsewhere if the other option was we had to get rid of players like Johnsson, Kapanen, Reilly, Kadri, Andersen and Nylander!!! If it meant replacing all of those with sub-players I personally am not for it. All those players mentioned with exception of Andersen\Kapanen are home grown talent that can be re-signed or kept at a decent cap hit. So although we are getting rid of one home grown superstar talent in Marner, I would rather keep the others as part of the core while adding to it both currently and in the future with money saved.

The 4 1sts can be parlayed into other developed young players that can be added to the core at a more reasonable cost both on D and at forward.

The whole point of this is to sustain relevance in the NHL for a long period of time. I do not want to become the Chicago Blackhawks where we lock ourselves into a core that basically disintegrates down the line. Keep filling the pipeline of prospects while remaining relevant. Trading Marner allows that if his demands get out of hand.

 

[Notsince67]

Only one return I would accept for Marner and that is Panarin and four 1sts.

Not even sure I would do that. Panarin will be good for a few years yet but this is as good as you get. I spent years watching the leafs pick guys like Cereda, Schenn, Biggs & Goat in the first round. Also watched them trade their first round for Tom Kurvers. That first round turned into Scott Niedermayer. Predicting where a first round ends up is very difficult. When you draft a player like Marner, it is like winning the lottery. You don't invest your winnings on other lottery tickets.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yeah, that's fair. Apparently his camp wants Matthews' money, which doesn't bode well

I have never ever heard that from Paul once. In fact he has told me more than once that he knows full well that Matty is a top player in the league. I do think he will settle at some lower number than Matty on same term. If I was guessing say 10 to 10.5M will be the number but it might be even a bit lower because he was willing to sign for 8 years at 9M in camp. Anyways it will be somewhere between 9M to 10.5M book it.

 

[BlueForever75]

Not even sure I would do that. Panarin will be good for a few years yet but this is as good as you get. I spent years watching the leafs pick guys like Cereda, Schenn, Biggs & Goat in the first round. Also watched them trade their first round for Tom Kurvers. That first round turned into Scott Niedermayer. Predicting where a first round ends up is very difficult. When you draft a player like Marner, it is like winning the lottery. You don't invest your winnings on other lottery tickets.

I personally wouldn't like it either. If the time comes that we need to deal Marner. Again my hope is that it doesn't come. I would look for a deal that brings in a top RHD under 26 years old, and a scoring forward with size also under 26-27 years old. Both would have to be on decent contracts and would need to be coupled with picks. We obviously would also need to include more salary going back to acquiring team as Marner would be the best player in deal.

That is how I would like this to go down. Otherwise, get the 4 1sts, use them along with players to get younger controllable pieces the same way. Only use UFA for depth pieces. I don't want another Marleau situation.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly, Nylander and Andersen go Nowhere.

You figure out how to fill the spots around them

 

[stickty111]

You don't trade Marner, Matthews or Nylander.
You trade the support pieces.

 

[Notsince67]

We are in a salary cap era, the years where we didn't take advantage was prior. Now it is about staying under the cap while icing the best team. I would take 4 1st's from a team and use the $$$ elsewhere if the other option was we had to get rid of players like Johnsson, Kapanen, Reilly, Kadri, Andersen and Nylander!!! If it meant replacing all of those with sub-players I personally am not for it. All those players mentioned with exception of Andersen\Kapanen are home grown talent that can be re-signed or kept at a decent cap hit. So although we are getting rid of one home grown superstar talent in Marner, I would rather keep the others as part of the core while adding to it both currently and in the future with money saved.

The 4 1sts can be parlayed into other developed young players that can be added to the core at a more reasonable cost both on D and at forward.

The whole point of this is to sustain relevance in the NHL for a long period of time. I do not want to become the Chicago Blackhawks where we lock ourselves into a core that basically disintegrates down the line. Keep filling the pipeline of prospects while remaining relevant. Trading Marner allows that if his demands get out of hand.

No. You want to be like the Calgary Flames who trades Brett Hull (Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley for Brett Hull and Steve Bozek)?
There has been a long history of stupid trades made in the NHL. Congratulations...you found a way for the leafs to win something.

 

[zeke]

no.

 

[hullsy47]

I do.

And Panarin likely gets 10+

based on his numbers he's closer to nylander