Proposal: Trade Thread Part 55

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Miller Time

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I don't have a source but I faintly remember reading something about Mikko Koivu having no interest in going to Montreal, he seemed not to like to be in his brother's shadow too much. Apparently at the draft Saku was excited about possibly drafting him, but he ended up being drafted by MIN one pick before we drafted All-Star defender Mike Komisarek ;)
Also apparently Eklund recently speculated a Mikko-Habs mutual interest could be sparked, which basically means it will not happen.

Yeah, who knows...

If we did move Danault, he'd be a pretty perfect 1-2 year fit at a good price for 3rd C. Still has enough in the tank to be an effective role focused C... Size, a bit of scoring touch, and the Finnish connection couldn't hurt for an all Suomi line btw lek & Armia ;)

Buys time for one of Poehling or Evans to step into a top 9 role while alleviating the pressure on Suzuki/JKO to do the heavy lifting on match ups
 

Habby4Life

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Just spit balling around some ideas. I think they will probably move Domi & Kulak This would leave around 12 mil in cap space.

To Det: Domi, Kulak, 4th
To MTL; Mantha


To Ari: 2nd round pick & lindgren
To Mtl: Kessel

Kessel cap hit 5 & Manth at 5.5. This leaves them will Aprox 1.5 mil cap space

Mantha - Suzuki - Gally
Tatar - Kk -Kessel
Drouin - Danault - Armia
Lek - Evans - Byron
Weal

Chia - Weber
Edmun - Petry
Roma - Mete
Xavier or AHL call up

Price
Allen
 

Dutronc

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Domi + 1st + Caufield vs Laine. Danault + Mete/Fleury vs Mantha. Sign Mikael Granlund 4x5.5 (same money you want to give to Phil D).

Drouin Suzuki Mantha/Laine
Tatar Kotkaniemi Laine/Mantha
Lekhonen Granlund Gallagher
Poehling Evans Byron

Chiarot Weber
Edmundson Petry
Romanov - Fleury/Mete

Price / Allen

Contender.
 

axman88

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Apr 5, 2007
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Send Alzner to Robidas Island and sign Krug...

Krug - Weber
Chiarot- Petry
Edmundsun - Kulak/Mete/Fleury

Price
Allan
 

Miller Time

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Domi + 1st + Caufield vs Laine. Danault + Mete/Fleury vs Mantha. Sign Mikael Granlund 4x5.5 (same money you want to give to Phil D).

Drouin Suzuki Mantha/Laine
Tatar Kotkaniemi Laine/Mantha
Lekhonen Granlund Gallagher
Poehling Evans Byron

Chiarot Weber
Edmundson Petry
Romanov - Fleury/Mete

Price / Allen

Contender.

Interesting... But which C/line do you envision taking on the Crosby/Point/Barzal/Tavares et. matchups come playoff time?

Suzuki, JKO & Granlund were 46%, 42% & 48% from the dot this year... & while Suzuki & JKO did impress in their spot duty vs Crosby & Couturier, not sure either could handle that kind of burden, while maintaining offensive burdens as well, for a 7 game series with no Danault to lighten that load.

That's not a contender ready C group considering the importance of details like F/O success & matchup ability come playoff time.
 
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Dutronc

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Interesting... But which C/line do you envision taking on the Crosby/Point/Barzal/Tavares et. matchups come playoff time?

Suzuki, JKO & Granlund were 46%, 42% & 48% from the dot this year... & while Suzuki & JKO did impress in their spot duty vs Crosby & Couturier, not sure either could handle that kind of burden, while maintaining offensive burdens as well, for a 7 game series with no Danault to lighten that load.

That's not a contender ready C group considering the importance of details like F/O success & matchup ability come playoff time.
quality post! I think they simply need better coaching. Bringing a guy like Carbonneau just for that. Just like Yannik Perrault with Chicago. Toronto have Manny Malhotra now.

Éric Belanger who coach in midget AAA for the moment is the perfect guy. Like he said the goal is to be over 50% every year for a centerman.
 

Kwikwi

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Would a Jets team desperate to keep its Stanley Cup window open, one in serious need at centre and on defence, be willing to move its top sniper?
We’d be shocked.

But Laine’s name has been out there and that has to be related to their needs, but also what could be a tough negotiation in a year’s time.
We wouldn’t trade him. In what most considered to be a down year in 2018-19, Laine still scored 30 goals and 50 points.

We will concede, he’s exactly what the Canadiens need; a pure shooter, a big body, a power-play weapon. He’s only 22, and he’d fit in great with a growing Finnish contingent in Montreal.


But take your Domi/Danault, Mete/Kulak and a first suggestions and save them for some outdated message board. A deal like this doesn’t get done without one or two of Montreal’s top prospects — and a premium player or two — going the other way.
Let’s be real: a deal like this doesn’t get done, so this is probably the last time we’ll be discussing it in this space.
 

Sterling Archer

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Would a Jets team desperate to keep its Stanley Cup window open, one in serious need at centre and on defence, be willing to move its top sniper?
We’d be shocked.

But Laine’s name has been out there and that has to be related to their needs, but also what could be a tough negotiation in a year’s time.
We wouldn’t trade him. In what most considered to be a down year in 2018-19, Laine still scored 30 goals and 50 points.

We will concede, he’s exactly what the Canadiens need; a pure shooter, a big body, a power-play weapon. He’s only 22, and he’d fit in great with a growing Finnish contingent in Montreal.


But take your Domi/Danault, Mete/Kulak and a first suggestions and save them for some outdated message board. A deal like this doesn’t get done without one or two of Montreal’s top prospects — and a premium player or two — going the other way.
Let’s be real: a deal like this doesn’t get done, so this is probably the last time we’ll be discussing it in this space.
Who are you quoting? Link?
 

Habs Halifax

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2019 Blues - 26% of cap in top 3 players Tarasenko, ROR, Pietrangelo... 41% in top 5 (steen, paryako)
2018 Capitals - 31% in top 3 (Ovie, Kuznetzonv, Backstrom... ~47% in top 5 (hotlby, niskanen)
2017 Pens - 37% in top 3 (Sid, Geno, Letang)... ~49% in top 5 (Kessel, fleury) *actually higher but LTIR was a big factor.
2016 Pens - 34% & 52%

i'm curious as to what you consider to be "top heavy" salary cap vs you're preferable split?

3 of 4 past cup winners of last few years all had btw 47-52% of cap tied up in top 5 players? (blues the anomaly at 41%... with 7 roster players (4 ELC players and 3 other regulars) on <1M$ deals, including binnington).

3 of 4 had over 30% in their top 3 (with the blues, again, being the anomaly).

in those 4 years (where we made the PO only once) we were at:
30% & 43% - 96pt
26% & 40% - 71 pt
27% & 43% - 102 pt
29% & 44% - 82pt

no idea how that stacks us up to league-wide ranges... i would imagine that the PO team averages skew a bit higher, closer to the cup winners of 45%+, but no time to check that out.


ultimately, the key is the ability to have elite talent in key areas (net, top-4, top-6) while filling out the roster with balanced depth to navigate the season & playoff grind.

The "top-heavy" model, if your top players are elite and well set up for success (unlike how MB has positioned Price/Weber the past few seasons) clearly works.

We, with Suzuki, JKO, Mete, Romanov?, and Danault/Gallagher/Tatar/Lekhonen/Petry all on deals paying them well below their contribution levels, would've been perfectly positioned to go top-heavy on the 2 elite level talents we need to balance out our roster (top-line W and top-pairing LD)... Unfortunately, we blew our cap space to aggressively do so for this year on Allen/Edmundson, and now don't have the flexibility to straight up add (Hall/Pietrangelo) or trade using cap space as an asset...

with all of the vets listed above up for raises next summer, that window is closed and now it's got to be a 2-3 year window, which means our heaviest cap hits will be that much further away from their prime, and the ELC benefits will be gone.

Effective cap/roster management remains the key, moreso than top-heavy/balanced... imo

The top heavy is about talent more than cap hit. Habs are in a position with vets and good young talent on ELC/Bridge deals. This is why I say we need to make moves now. Price/Weber sill effective and Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Romanov, and then Caufield on ELC/Bridge deals for the next 3-5 years.

In 5+ years, the money will move around if those kids are who we think they are. There is no salary graft or cheat sheet to use on a correct model. It's all about cap projections of what you have under contract and ones coming. We have done a good job at improving our youth and like I said... Vets still here. Price, Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar. We are in a good spot to move up in that 3-5 year span. After 3 years, Weber retires and you reevaluate then

I don't have a Goalie, Defense, Forward preferable split. It's about what you have and how it projects forward. If you want to know where we fall with the rest of the NHL? This site will help you.. NHL 2020 Cap Tracker. And remember, Suzuki and KK are on ELC/Bridge deals for a few years yet. Gallagher, Tatar, Danault, Domi will get raises. Then add the missing winger with size/scoring we are looking for. Our cap space will be spent more on forwards moving forward.

If we don't do anything else but give contracts to Domi, Juulsen, and Mete, that creates a 23 man roster. We would be sitting at around $75M and I'm not counting Alzner for this exercise

Goalies:
* $14.85M/$75.19M = 19.75%
* 2/23 man roster = 9%
* Skewed number due to Allen for one year. This will drop down to 14% or lower after this next season

Defense:
* $24.93M/$75.19M = 33.16%
* 8/23 man roster = 35%
* This is pretty much set for a few years.

Forwards:
* $35.41M/$75.19M = 47.09%
* 13/23 man roster = 56%
* This will be a moving target and any cap space we have will be spent on forwards.

Basically, when Allen is off the books, Primeau is the back-up, Alzner is gone, and we add that winger with size/scoring... We will be about 5% over the averages on Goalies and 5% under on forwards. We are not that skewed as people think. And as time moves forward, others will catch us with goalie salaries while we spend that space on forwards or D

End Result: There is no salary graft or cheat sheet to use on a correct model. It's about what you have and the timing of when contracts expire vs how much good young talent you can insert on ELC/bridge deals.
 
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Habs Halifax

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Would a Jets team desperate to keep its Stanley Cup window open, one in serious need at centre and on defence, be willing to move its top sniper?
We’d be shocked.

But Laine’s name has been out there and that has to be related to their needs, but also what could be a tough negotiation in a year’s time.
We wouldn’t trade him. In what most considered to be a down year in 2018-19, Laine still scored 30 goals and 50 points.

We will concede, he’s exactly what the Canadiens need; a pure shooter, a big body, a power-play weapon. He’s only 22, and he’d fit in great with a growing Finnish contingent in Montreal.


But take your Domi/Danault, Mete/Kulak and a first suggestions and save them for some outdated message board. A deal like this doesn’t get done without one or two of Montreal’s top prospects — and a premium player or two — going the other way.
Let’s be real: a deal like this doesn’t get done, so this is probably the last time we’ll be discussing it in this space.

I agree on this overall narrative. I've moved on from Laine. Jets can contact us if they want to move him. They know who are untouchables are and what pieces we would offer. I wonder how the Jets do next year if Little retires and they have to play Wheeler at 2C? Imagine if Laine has a year like his age 20 season again? What a mess that would be for them... kind of like us with Domi now. Domi's age 23 is like Laine's 21 season and Domi's age 24 season is like Laine's age 20 season. Laine is better but I wonder how much? Pts/game are the exact same over the last two years. Laine playing with much better talent too! Not even close there!
 

Kwikwi

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Theres ton of grain of salt info popping out from many places quoting other places so dont hate
Markstrom to Detroit
Holtby could end up in Vancouver
PLD and Mantha close to a deal
Saad for Domi but MB love Boqvist
Calgary not on Hall anymore
Pitts will offer 5x5 to Tanev

anyway well hear so much stuff in the 2 next weeks
 

TopTenPlayz

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You can't just evaluate things in a vacuum like that. The reality is that they are both important. Sure, Laine will be amazing with Suzuki. But what happens if Koktka falters? Whos taking his place? Whos playing vs the best lines on other side?

The reason to keep Danault is because not only can he be that faceoff, defensive guy- he can step into a top 6 role and has the experience to do it.

Scoring 30 extra goals with Laine but allowing 30 more doesnt help the cause.

Yes, trade for Laine. Go for it. All im saying is creating a big hole elsewhere doesnt advance us.
In life, no one can have everything that they want and that's when priorities come in. Laine comes in before Danault simply because it'd be easier to find a guy like Danault than Laine. Wsh gave two 2nd rounders for Eller. Granted Danault is better but I'd be fine with a guy like Eller playing behind the two kids on this team.
 

Easternbull

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Any news in Montreal on local sports radio or twitter banter regarding a trade for an uppgrade on the wings?

Something has to give, Bergevin has to do something before october 9th, is Domi or Danault staying put?
 

Habs Halifax

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We don't even have room to sign Hall anymore. After Juulsen and Mete are signed (Domi traded), we are at about $7.8M in cap space. Move Byron? Good luck with that with so many others trying to do the same.

Seems like Bergevin is not really interested in Hall with the Allen and Edmundson moves. Is he done or he is sitting back to see what others do in scramble mode. Might be a smart plan. Lots of GM's that got to make moves have not acted yet. When the flood gates open? Watch out!
 

Habs Halifax

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In life, no one can have everything that they want and that's when priorities come in. Laine comes in before Danault simply because it'd be easier to find a guy like Danault than Laine. Wsh gave two 2nd rounders for Eller. Granted Danault is better but I'd be fine with a guy like Eller playing behind the two kids on this team.

If Danault is traded (big if), sign M Koivu for one year
 
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Sterling Archer

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With the trade/signing of Edmundson and addition of Romanov, the D is set for next year IMO, other than trading one of the additional D we have. So any trades or signings are likely going to be to get an impact forward which is where the glaring need is, especially after seeing TSN projected lineups.

Assets available are cap space, Domi, Danault, Tatar, Drouin, Byron, Lehkonen, Kulak, Mete, Juulsen, Fleury, Poehling, 1st plus additional picks, and a plethora of prospects. The trick is going to be who's available for a package built around those assets.

Bergevin isn't done and hopefully he and his team can get at least one impact forward, though I wouldn't mind adding two like Hall and Poolparty, or Laine and Killorn etc. Those types of additions would make a meaningful change to our forward group, slot players into their proper place and add a lot more size and skill to a group that desperately needs it.
 

Habs Halifax

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With the trade/signing of Edmundson and addition of Romanov, the D is set for next year IMO, other than trading one of the additional D we have. So any trades or signings are likely going to be to get an impact forward which is where the glaring need is, especially after seeing TSN projected lineups.

Assets available are cap space, Domi, Danault, Tatar, Drouin, Byron, Lehkonen, Kulak, Mete, Juulsen, Fleury, Poehling, 1st plus additional picks, and a plethora of prospects. The trick is going to be who's available for a package built around those assets.

Bergevin isn't done and hopefully he and his team can get at least one impact forward, though I wouldn't mind adding two like Hall and Poolparty, or Laine and Killorn etc. Those types of additions would make a meaningful change to our forward group, slot players into their proper place and add a lot more size and skill to a group that desperately needs it.

How do we fit Hall in? With Domi traded for futures and Mete/Juulsen signed, we have a 22 man roster with $7.8M in cap space (+/-). We would have to move Byron at a time when so many teams are looking to move a contract. There is also a potential $4M cap hit on ELC performance bonuses on Suzuki, KK, Romanov. We would be smart to keep $2M of cap space free in case they bust out. Deferring that to 21/22 is not a smart idea!!

So... $7.8M + Byron's cap hit - $2M in fluff = $9M (+/-). Run with a 22 man roster?

What would it take to move Byron? Not sure that would be easy
 

Deebs

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How much further up the draft board could we go by attaching both our 2nds to our 1st in a trade?
 

Habricot

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Just spit balling around some ideas. I think they will probably move Domi & Kulak This would leave around 12 mil in cap space.

To Det: Domi, Kulak, 4th
To MTL; Mantha


To Ari: 2nd round pick & lindgren
To Mtl: Kessel

Kessel cap hit 5 & Manth at 5.5. This leaves them will Aprox 1.5 mil cap space

Mantha - Suzuki - Gally
Tatar - Kk -Kessel
Drouin - Danault - Armia
Lek - Evans - Byron
Weal

Chia - Weber
Edmun - Petry
Roma - Mete
Xavier or AHL call up

Price
Allen

There was an interview with Mantha earlier this week and he was pretty clear to the french media that he wants to stay in Detroit. He just bought a huge house there and intends to sign with them long term whith I assume a big NTC.
 
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Sterling Archer

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There was an interview with Mantha earlier this week and he was pretty clear to the french media that he wants to stay in Detroit. He just bought a huge house there and intends to sign with them long term whith I assume a big NTC.

He says that now, but just wait into he sees the Habs $8.75M OS! :sarcasm:
 

Habricot

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The point of hockey is to score goals. Meier scores gaols, Danault does not. There are numerous Danaults that can be found, and very few Meiers.

The point of hockey is not only to score goals but to score more goals then your oponent. For that it is equally important to prevent the other team from scoring then it is for you to score. The other important piece is that you need the puck to score goals and for that winning facoffs is very important in the NHL. It just happens that Danault is very good at these two immensly important part of the game and while he may not score that many goals he sure helps his line mates to do so .. (talk to Tatar .. ). I love Meier. Would be an excellent fit in MTL .. just not for Danault.
 
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Habs Halifax

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There was an interview with Mantha earlier this week and he was pretty clear to the french media that he wants to stay in Detroit. He just bought a huge house there and intends to sign with them long term whith I assume a big NTC.

He can't get the NTC in his RFA years I believe. He turns 27 after this next season so I think he has one RFA year left.
 
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