Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXVII

[God Says No]

That’s reasonable but I’m not really worried about that production in the next 2 years, I’m think about 3 years when we have a chance to be a contender.

Uhhh, we better be competing for a playoff spot next year. 3 years from now we should be already winning or competing for the cup. (According to Dorion and co.)

 

[GCK]

Uhhh, we better be competing for a playoff spot next year. 3 years from now we should be already winning or competing for the cup. (According to Dorion and co.)

Next year is be in the playoff hunt, following year improve and hopefully be a contender 3 years from now.

 

[Cosmix]

Didn’t he mean continuity as in try and bring targeted players in before the season ends so that they can play with the team to close out the season and be primed to hit the ground running next season?

I think the "he" you are referring to is Dorion.

 

[Cosmix]

We definitely need to keep our first round picks. Especially when they're in the top 10.

All this money we're already projecting to pay the kids on their 2nd and 3rd contracts, yet we're still a bottom 5 team. Pretty soon we'll be nudging against the cap and still in the bottom third of the league. We need a steady supply of good draft picks coming up on their ELCs if we have any hope in the next few years.

In general I agree; however, if we could obtain a 25 year old player who has had some success in the NHL with another team and has good prospects for the future, that might be better than hoping a pick in the #6 to #15 position truns out to be better. PLus we get the player now, for SC run, thus trading futures for today.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I think the "he" you are referring to is Dorion.

Yes?

 

[MatchesMalone]

A few things to take from your post:

1) I whole heartedly agree that we need a defender, but the money won't make it possible, and we'll likely have to decide between top 4 D or top 6 F.

2) The Senators need to invest in an F instead for the following reasons:

i. We have more "proven talent" on defense. Chabot is a clear cut top 15 defender in the game, imo. And he has proven to play among the best of the best in his position. Therefore, he is up and away our most reliable and proven asset.

ii. Zub is a legit top 4 defender, and that means we have 2 crucial pieces out of 4.

iii. I truly expect Sanderson to come in and, conservatively, play a top 4 position, even if not upper echelon the way Makar, Heiskanen, Seider, Fox, McAvoy and other similar defenders had impacts right away. I think he will have that similar impact, but conservatively let's just say a steady/good top 4 the way Drysdale's been.

iv. Holden has proven that he and Zub alone can formulate an effective 2nd-type pairing. At worst, Holden is an excellent bottom pair.

v. That means we have 1 elite number 1 defender. 1 legit top 4. 1 solid top 4 and 1 middle top 4.

iv. On offense, we are ridiculously younger and even more unproven. Guys like Stutzle, Formenton are still trying to truly cement their positions as bonafide top 6ers. Realistically, Formenton is still on our 3rd line.

iiv. The forward group looks to Connor Brown as their reliable veteran when they need bigger man's game for offensive support, as the young guys still exhibit a lot of weak forward strength due to immature bodies/young. That's why we have seen Paul play significant minutes in top 6.

iiiv. The forwards need a leader to help elevate them to next level because I think guys like Tkachuk and Stutzle still need guidance themselves, and they still prone to make very prone boneheaded teenage mistakes that a veteran will fix. When I see Tkachuk play 2-3 minutes of OT I cringe quite a bit. But who's going to reel him in/mentor him?

ix. Brannstrom and Thomson have shown capability to take the next step, and have played over 23 minutes of ice-time each and shown that they cannot be held back anymore, and need ice-time.

This is the key right here. Patience. Although, I think if Giroux becomes available for free, we are ALL over that on a 3 year deal. Free asset that's a top liner , who still has gas left, and will be imperative to the mentorship of young leadership core.

That will allow us to retain our top prospects and hope one/two of

Our selection in 2022(if forward)/Greig/Sokolov/Jarventie/or 2021/2022 picks

Give us invaluable impact on their ELC's or are either ripe enough to replace Giroux and be that missing young piece to our core, or we pounce on the next best thing with deep prospect capital.

I don't agree about Giroux. If we were ready to contend now or even next year, sure, but it seems we're still a couple years away. The way you put it sounds great, but if the money spent on Giroux is blocking us from making a better long-term acquistion, it's no good. Maybe I'm wrong and he still has three elite years left, but it's not a risk I want to take.

You raise a lot of good points regarding the forward/defense debate, but honestly the whole thing is of secondary importance. What's most important - what wins Stanley Cups - is having as many really good players as possible, and in the cap era, to do so means some of them have to be signed to really good contracts. I was thinking about it, and realized as far as player age, about 25 to 27 is going to be the sweet spot; anything younger than that and it would make more sense to rebuilding teams to hold on to the player (except maybe Arizona), and anything much older doesn't make sense for the Sens' situation. I thought it would be fun to do a list of the players who have been brought up here (by myself or others) as potentially available targets, in order from least to most desirable. Plus I added a couple new names.

11. Josh Anderson - I like the player enough, and he fits the team philosophy, but he's not the difference-maker I'm looking for. The thing the Sens have in abundance is assets, salary maybe not so much. Anderson would be cheaper in terms of assets but expensive in terms of salary. It just doesn't make sense.

10. Vince Dunn - Good player, but again, just not really the difference-maker I'm looking for.

9. Tomas Hertl - Now we're getting into difference-maker territory. Downsides being he is 28 (maybe not a deal-breaker) and he is going to need a gargantuan contract (deal-breaker).

8. Ivan Provorov - Age and contract term make him a better fit than Toffoli or Severson. Cap hit and positional need put a damper on things. Would be a bit too much money spent on two left-side Ds.

7. Claude Giroux

t6. Tyler Toffoli - More of a difference-maker than Anderson or Dunn, but he's not the guy that's going to put you over the top. Will be 30 in April and only two years left on his contract after this one. Just doesn't make a ton of sense. Wouldn't be the worst acquisition, but far from idea.

t6. Damon Severson - Roughly similar quality player to Toffoli. Both fill a positional need in RW and RD. Severson has the advantage of being a couple years younger, but the disadvantage of one less year on his contract.

4. Adam Pelech - Similar situation to Provorov, but a better player. A little older, but longer term and lower cap hit.

3. Ryan Pulock - Not as good an all-round defenseman as Pelech, but slightly lower cap hit, more offensive upside, and he's a right shot.

2. Jakub Chychrun - Unlike with Provorov and Pelech, his cap hit is low enough that it makes complete sense to have him playing behind Chabot. Locked up with enough term to be an absolutely invaluable piece for the first couple years of our intended contention window.

1. Travis Konecny - He's a difference-maker. Fills a need on the RW. Very solid contract for three more years after this one. Young enough to be part of the core for a long time. Likely the soonest he could possibly be available would be trade deadline next season, but by then he'll be almost 26, so fits into that "sweet spot" age I mentioned earlier.

 

[Sweatred]

In general I agree; however, if we could obtain a 25 year old player who has had some success in the NHL with another team and has good prospects for the future, that might be better than hoping a pick in the #6 .

It’s really hard for us to acquire a player like that. 25 year olds could be 2 years away from UFA. We saw how the MD trade unfolded.

We almost certainly loss any trade like that on the pure value of controllable years.

 

[GCK]

I don't agree about Giroux. If we were ready to contend now or even next year, sure, but it seems we're still a couple years away. The way you put it sounds great, but if the money spent on Giroux is blocking us from making a better long-term acquistion, it's no good. Maybe I'm wrong and he still has three elite years left, but it's not a risk I want to take.

You raise a lot of good points regarding the forward/defense debate, but honestly the whole thing is of secondary importance. What's most important - what wins Stanley Cups - is having as many really good players as possible, and in the cap era, to do so means some of them have to be signed to really good contracts. I was thinking about it, and realized as far as player age, about 25 to 27 is going to be the sweet spot; anything younger than that and it would make more sense to rebuilding teams to hold on to the player (except maybe Arizona), and anything much older doesn't make sense for the Sens' situation. I thought it would be fun to do a list of the players who have been brought up here (by myself or others) as potentially available targets, in order from least to most desirable. Plus I added a couple new names.

11. Josh Anderson - I like the player enough, and he fits the team philosophy, but he's not the difference-maker I'm looking for. The thing the Sens have in abundance is assets, salary maybe not so much. Anderson would be cheaper in terms of assets but expensive in terms of salary. It just doesn't make sense.

10. Vince Dunn - Good player, but again, just not really the difference-maker I'm looking for.


Tomas Hertl - Now we're getting more into difference-maker territory. Downsides are he is
9. Tomas Hertl - Now we're getting into difference-maker territory. Downsides being he is 28 (maybe not a deal-breaker) and he is going to need a gargantuan contract (deal-breaker)

8. Ivan Provorov - Age and contract term make him a better fit than Toffoli or Severson. Cap hit and positional need put a damper on things. Would be a bit too much money spent on two left-side Ds.

7. Claude Giroux

t6. Tyler Toffoli - More of a difference-maker than Anderson or Dunn, but he's not the guy that's going to put you over the top. Will be 30 in April and only two years left on his contract after this one. Just doesn't make a ton of sense. Wouldn't be the worst acquisition, but far from idea.

t6. Damon Severson - Roughly similar quality player to Toffoli. Both fill a positional need in RW and RD. Severson has the advantage of being a couple years younger, but the disadvantage of one less year on his contract.

4. Adam Pelech - Similar situation to Provorov, but a better player. A little older, but longer term and lower cap hit.

3. Ryan Pulock - Not as good an all-round defenseman as Pelech, but slightly lower cap hit, more offensive upside, and he's a right shot.

2. Jakub Chychrun - Unlike with Provorov and Pelech, his cap hit is low enough that it makes complete sense to have him playing behind Chabot. Locked up with enough term to be an absolutely invaluable piece for the first couple years of our intended contention window.

1. Travis Konecny - He's a difference-maker. Fills a need on the RW. Very solid contract for three more years after this one. Young enough to be part of the core for a long time. Likely the soonest he could possibly be available would be trade deadline next season, but by then he'll be almost 26, so fits into that "sweet spot" age I mentioned earlier.

Tomas Hertl - Now we're getting more into difference-maker territory. Downsides are he isJakub Chychrun

Not sure why you listed Provorov, Pelech, Pulock and Koneckny. I can’t see why they would be available. Severson is UFA after next year so a trade for him would have to come in the summer with a big extension, I’d rather re-sign Zub.

 

[Tuna99]

This is trade:

Ott: Giroux (extended 3yrs x $6 mill)
Phil: Zaitsev, Sokolov, 1st round pick top 10 protected 2022 so a 2023 1st round pick

 

[GCK]

This is trade:

Ott: Giroux (extended 3yrs x $6 mill)
Phil: Zaitsev, Sokolov, 1st round pick top 10 protected 2022 so a 2023 1st round pick

I’m not putting that 2023 pick at risk. Anything can happen and there is generational talent available.

 

[SensontheRush]

This is trade:

Ott: Giroux (extended 3yrs x $6 mill)
Phil: Zaitsev, Sokolov, 1st round pick top 10 protected 2022 so a 2023 1st round pick

I'm not giving up Socks in any package for any player, especially when we have equally valuable and more replaceable prospects.

 

[ATdaisuki]

I don't agree about Giroux. If we were ready to contend now or even next year, sure, but it seems we're still a couple years away. The way you put it sounds great, but if the money spent on Giroux is blocking us from making a better long-term acquistion, it's no good. Maybe I'm wrong and he still has three elite years left, but it's not a risk I want to take.

You raise a lot of good points regarding the forward/defense debate, but honestly the whole thing is of secondary importance. What's most important - what wins Stanley Cups - is having as many really good players as possible, and in the cap era, to do so means some of them have to be signed to really good contracts. I was thinking about it, and realized as far as player age, about 25 to 27 is going to be the sweet spot; anything younger than that and it would make more sense to rebuilding teams to hold on to the player (except maybe Arizona), and anything much older doesn't make sense for the Sens' situation. I thought it would be fun to do a list of the players who have been brought up here (by myself or others) as potentially available targets, in order from least to most desirable. Plus I added a couple new names.

11. Josh Anderson - I like the player enough, and he fits the team philosophy, but he's not the difference-maker I'm looking for. The thing the Sens have in abundance is assets, salary maybe not so much. Anderson would be cheaper in terms of assets but expensive in terms of salary. It just doesn't make sense.

10. Vince Dunn - Good player, but again, just not really the difference-maker I'm looking for.


Tomas Hertl - Now we're getting more into difference-maker territory. Downsides are he is
9. Tomas Hertl - Now we're getting into difference-maker territory. Downsides being he is 28 (maybe not a deal-breaker) and he is going to need a gargantuan contract (deal-breaker)

8. Ivan Provorov - Age and contract term make him a better fit than Toffoli or Severson. Cap hit and positional need put a damper on things. Would be a bit too much money spent on two left-side Ds.

7. Claude Giroux

t6. Tyler Toffoli - More of a difference-maker than Anderson or Dunn, but he's not the guy that's going to put you over the top. Will be 30 in April and only two years left on his contract after this one. Just doesn't make a ton of sense. Wouldn't be the worst acquisition, but far from idea.

t6. Damon Severson - Roughly similar quality player to Toffoli. Both fill a positional need in RW and RD. Severson has the advantage of being a couple years younger, but the disadvantage of one less year on his contract.

4. Adam Pelech - Similar situation to Provorov, but a better player. A little older, but longer term and lower cap hit.

3. Ryan Pulock - Not as good an all-round defenseman as Pelech, but slightly lower cap hit, more offensive upside, and he's a right shot.

2. Jakub Chychrun - Unlike with Provorov and Pelech, his cap hit is low enough that it makes complete sense to have him playing behind Chabot. Locked up with enough term to be an absolutely invaluable piece for the first couple years of our intended contention window.

1. Travis Konecny - He's a difference-maker. Fills a need on the RW. Very solid contract for three more years after this one. Young enough to be part of the core for a long time. Likely the soonest he could possibly be available would be trade deadline next season, but by then he'll be almost 26, so fits into that "sweet spot" age I mentioned earlier.

Tomas Hertl - Now we're getting more into difference-maker territory. Downsides are he isJakub Chychrun

Another disagree on your Giroux take. He's still very good and likely will be for a few years. That's all we need out of him. Help the young players until our new crop is ready and the young players on the roster are more able to carry the load.

Out of the names you've listed, only Hertl, Giroux, Toffoli, and Chychrun are likely to be available.

Hertl will cost too much in dollars and Chychrun is more of the same for me. If we're running Chabot, Sanderson, and Brannstrom down the left, I want to focus on getting two top six/one top six one high end third liner. Preferably wingers. Chychrun will cost a boatload to acquire, which seems like a misallocation of assets to me. I'm assuming the Flyers are going to retool around Couturier, Ellis (two of their premier players that have missed a lot of time this year), Konecny, Farabee, Hart, Sanheim, and Provorov. I think the names that are coming off that roster are going to be ones like Giroux, van Riemsdyk, Atkinson, Ristolainen, Hayes, etc. As for the Isles, they've been unlucky with injuries and were one of the teams hit the hardest by covid this season. They will likely be looking at a deep playoff run again this time next season.

I think our targets should be two of Kuzmenko, Giroux, Smith/other forward that shakes lose from Vegas, Palat, Boesser, Miller, Copp, Kravtsov, Rakell, Tofolli etc. Most of those guys are either UFA and potentially in a tight spot for re-signing or rumoured to be available for trade. Preferably one "cheap" option like Kuzmenko, Copp, Kravtsov, or Toffoli then one of the other, potentially more expensive options.

With Brannstrom finally being played and not traded, Holden turning out okay, Sanderson coming in, and Chabot playing well enough to carry a young RD, I'm not as worried on defense as I once was. I want to beef up the forwards and give us a forward group that can compete with the best of them despite not having a super elite forward. Getting two of those players gives us an extremely deep top nine with three lines no one would be surprised to see score a few goals in a game.

I'm still hoping for

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
xxxx - Stützle - xxxx
xxxx - Pinto - xxxx
Greig - Paul - Watson

Chabot - JBD/Thompson
Sanderson - Zub
Brannstrom - Holden

as our skaters next season, with the x's filled by a combination of Formenton, Brown, and the list of potentially available forwards earlier in the post. I think it's stronger than weakening other parts of our roster to meet the ask on Chychrun when our defense is really shaping up. Especially when some of those forward adds could cost nothing but cap space. I don't think we're far away at all with this lineup.

 

[Big Muddy]

This is trade:

Ott: Giroux (extended 3yrs x $6 mill)
Phil: Zaitsev, Sokolov, 1st round pick top 10 protected 2022 so a 2023 1st round pick

I’m not putting that 2023 pick at risk. Anything can happen and there is generational talent available.

If Ottawa were to contemplate a trade like that, I would really hope they are very optimistic about having a very good chance at winning the Cup in 2 or 3 years.

Might be better to wait until the summer and when Giroux is a free agent.

Cleverness is good, but patience is better.

 

[GCK]

We ideally should move for Kravtsov. Would Nick Paul as a rental and a 2022 2nd entice the Rangers.

on top of Kravtsov we should try to add Kuzmenko and/or Giroux but Kravtsov needs to be the priority

 

[Tuna99]

If Ottawa were to contemplate a trade like that, I would really hope they are very optimistic about having a very good chance at winning the Cup in 2 or 3 years.

Might be better to wait until the summer and when Giroux is a free agent.

Cleverness is good, but patience is better.

I did find Dorion’s comments kinda weird that he wants his team in place for chemistry reasons. Leads me believe he’s going to make a big move to get the team into contention.

ottawa is closer to winning a Cup next year then they are at finishing out of the playoffs IMO. With Giroux they are a legit contender

 

[GCK]

I did find Dorion’s comments kinda weird that he wants his team in place for chemistry reasons. Leads me believe he’s going to make a big move to get the team into contention.

ottawa is closer to winning a Cup next year then they are at finishing out of the playoffs IMO. With Giroux they are a legit contender

I thought I was an optimist but the bolded comment seems way too optimistic.

 

[Tuna99]

I thought I was an optimist but the bolded comment seems way too optimistic.

I see a lot of Chicago Blackhawk’s with this group. Big, strong, fast, leadership. Ottawa is closer then a log of fans realize

 

[Big Muddy]

I did find Dorion’s comments kinda weird that he wants his team in place for chemistry reasons. Leads me believe he’s going to make a big move to get the team into contention.

ottawa is closer to winning a Cup next year then they are at finishing out of the playoffs IMO. With Giroux they are a legit contender

bolded - 1st paragraph - Yes, so did I. I'm still trying to figure out what his objective is with that statement.

I hope you are right with your 2nd paragraph prediction, but I am less optimistic. Yes, we are a young, developing team with a number of good young ELCs & prospects. But, the hockey world is not static and other teams we will be competing against will improve as well. Making the playoffs will be a pretty big step I'd think.

In addition to adding a key piece, here are some other factors that will influence how well we do:

• Zub - does he stay or go?
• Sanderson - Will he be a stud right off the bat, or have a bit of a development curve
• Injuries

If you look at the math and law of probability, the chances of ALL 4 of those things happening is pretty low.

 

[GCK]

I see a lot of Chicago Blackhawk’s with this group. Big, strong, fast, leadership. Ottawa is closer then a log of fans realize

I think we contend in 3 years unless a couple under the radar players break out big time.

 

[Tuna99]

I think we contend in 3 years unless a couple under the radar players break out big time.

Just think of adding this prospect group full time to the current group. The speed, compete finish and hockey sense gets a massive upgrade:

Pinto
Sanderson
Greig
White

 

[GCK]

Just think of adding this prospect group full time to the current group. The speed, compete finish and hockey sense gets a massive upgrade:

Pinto
Sanderson
Greig
White

I look at that and still think 3 years. The East is loaded. Tampa, Florida, Toronto are playoff locks next year which leaves competing for a WC spot.

 

[HSF]

Top 10 protecting this years pick is pointless cause we are likely going to pick in the top 10

If we are giving up a high pick they should be going for someone like Keller , laine or someone young like that

or we better be able to dump a bad contract and get a decent top 6 winger back

 

[GCK]

Top 10 protecting this years pick is pointless cause we are likely going to pick in the top 10

If we are giving up a high pick they should be going for someone like Keller , laine or someone young like that

or we better be able to dump a bad contract and get a decent top 6 winger back

We really only have 3 bad contracts in Murray, Zaitsev and White.

We need to keep Murray for a few reasons mostly because we don’t have a better replacement.

Keeping Zaitsev is not a huge deal IF the team deploys him properly and is willing to scratch him.

White at the moment would slot in to our top 9 if healthy. If we add a winger or 2 he’s an easy buyout. A buyout after next season is not really onerous.

 

[branch]

This is trade:

Ott: Giroux (extended 3yrs x $6 mill)
Phil: Zaitsev, Sokolov, 1st round pick top 10 protected 2022 so a 2023 1st round pick

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. No

 

[Burrowsaurus]

We should trade for galchenyuk not my idea my friend suggested it I said nooo that’s crazy but thought I’d post here anyway.