Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXXVII

[MatchesMalone]

With the emergence of Thomson and Brannstrom, we have guys who can sustain top 4 minutes in the pipeline. What we don't have, is a top line capable winger for Stutzle. I'm quite high on Sokolov, but there's a greater chance Thomson becomes effective top 4 than Sokolov top 6, so we must ensure to get Stutzle his help.

This doesn't sit right with me. I doubt Dumba is available and for the Sens current situation, I am not interested in a player with only one year left to UFA after this one, but... Brannstrom has played eleven games this year. Thomson and Brannstrom have played 90 NHL games between them. I've been a fan of Brannstrom as a prospect, but at this point there is room for serious concern. Thomson is has been good this year but it's still a small and fairly sheltered sample. The only established defensemen who project to be a part of the team's future are Chabot and Zub. Zaitsev is ok but he's 30 now and I don't imagine he'll be around past the end of his current contract in '24.

At forward, we have six established legitimate NHL forwards in Norris, Tkachuk, Batherson, Brown, Formenton, Stutzle. You're not going to have stars at every position. Tampa won a Cup with Ruslan Fedotenko in their top six, as did Pittsburgh. I recall Maxim Talbot playing on Malkin's wing that year. Anaheim and L.A. won Cups with Dustin Penner in their top six. Etc. There's as many ways to construct a Cup champion as there are to skin a cat. The Sens' top six is set in place. It can be improved upon of course, but that should not be a priority. If Stutzle is as good as we think he is (and I'm pretty sure he is), once developed he should be able to feast on secondary matchups without stars on his line to help him.

The real needs are on defense and in goal. Maybe Brannstrom and Thomson will fill the holes in the top four, but never take anything for granted when it comes to prospects. Sanderson almost certainly will fill a spot in the top four, but we don't know how long that will take. You can't build a team based on what might be. This is one of the reasons it was the right move to sit tight last summer and not make any major acquisitions. We're still figuring out who is what. We can wait further and see what we have in Brannstrom, Thomson, Sanderson, but if we were to make a move in the near future it should be for defense.

That said, I'm not sure there is much need to rush. The core is ridiculously young. Chabot is the only one who's prime years are being wasted, and even he's still got lots left. Chabot, Tkachuk and Batherson are locked up long term. The only important years being wasted will be Stutzle's ELC and Zub's and Brown's sweetheart contracts that will be ending after '23, and we're not likely to seriously contend by next year anyway (although we should absolutely be a playoff team by then).

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

This doesn't sit right with me. I doubt Dumba is available and for the Sens current situation, I am not interested in a player with only one year left to UFA after this one, but... Brannstrom has played eleven games this year. Thomson and Brannstrom have played 90 NHL games between them. I've been a fan of Brannstrom as a prospect, but at this point there is room for serious concern. Thomson is has been good this year but it's still a small and fairly sheltered sample. The only established defensemen who project to be a part of the team's future are Chabot and Zub. Zaitsev is ok but he's 30 now and I don't imagine he'll be around past the end of his current contract in '24.

A few things to take from your post:

1) I whole heartedly agree that we need a defender, but the money won't make it possible, and we'll likely have to decide between top 4 D or top 6 F.

2) The Senators need to invest in an F instead for the following reasons:

i. We have more "proven talent" on defense. Chabot is a clear cut top 15 defender in the game, imo. And he has proven to play among the best of the best in his position. Therefore, he is up and away our most reliable and proven asset.

ii. Zub is a legit top 4 defender, and that means we have 2 crucial pieces out of 4.

iii. I truly expect Sanderson to come in and, conservatively, play a top 4 position, even if not upper echelon the way Makar, Heiskanen, Seider, Fox, McAvoy and other similar defenders had impacts right away. I think he will have that similar impact, but conservatively let's just say a steady/good top 4 the way Drysdale's been.

iv. Holden has proven that he and Zub alone can formulate an effective 2nd-type pairing. At worst, Holden is an excellent bottom pair.

v. That means we have 1 elite number 1 defender. 1 legit top 4. 1 solid top 4 and 1 middle top 4.

iv. On offense, we are ridiculously younger and even more unproven. Guys like Stutzle, Formenton are still trying to truly cement their positions as bonafide top 6ers. Realistically, Formenton is still on our 3rd line.

iiv. The forward group looks to Connor Brown as their reliable veteran when they need bigger man's game for offensive support, as the young guys still exhibit a lot of weak forward strength due to immature bodies/young. That's why we have seen Paul play significant minutes in top 6.

iiiv. The forwards need a leader to help elevate them to next level because I think guys like Tkachuk and Stutzle still need guidance themselves, and they still prone to make very prone boneheaded teenage mistakes that a veteran will fix. When I see Tkachuk play 2-3 minutes of OT I cringe quite a bit. But who's going to reel him in/mentor him?

ix. Brannstrom and Thomson have shown capability to take the next step, and have played over 23 minutes of ice-time each and shown that they cannot be held back anymore, and need ice-time.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I’m thinking at least 8 forwards seem set in stone as well as 5 or 6 of our 7 D.
Tkachuk Norris Batherson Formenton Stu Brown Pinto Watson
Chabot Zub Sanderson Zaitsev Holden
Murray

I fully expect Paul White Brannstrom and Gus to be here as well so 3 F spots 1 D spot open.

Have to figure 1-2 spots are taken from guys that have been here .. like Gambrell, or Gaudette or Kastelic or Kelly taking up at least 1-2 spots on the 4th line. Paul if he sticks around.. On D one of Brannstrom, Thomson or JBD .. doesn't leave a lot of continuity spots to worry about. For example if a forward is trying to learn a system and the 4 other guys on the ice know it and help .. it doesn't take very long

 

[GCK]

Hertl I like. But he's a C. So I'm assuming you want Stutzle to play wing. I could get on board with that, but would rather play Jimmy in the middle.

Tkatchuk is nice too.

Giroux would be good, but he's old. I'm looking for someone younger that can grow with the team.

My preference would be Hertl, Laine, Tkatchuk and Giroux.

I too want Stu at centre. Any way you parse it I don’t see how we fit in another 8M + player so to me anything listed other than Giroux is impossible.

 

[MatchesMalone]

I too want Stu at centre. Any way you parse it I don’t see how we fit in another 8M + player so to me anything listed other than Giroux is impossible.

What about Konecny if he were to become available?

 

[Silencio]

First line winger Connor brown

Even the mighty Leafs have Bunting and Kerfoot as top six wingers. Connor Brown on the first line would be an upgrade over those two.

 

[GCK]

What about Konecny if he were to become available?

Absolutely, but I’m thinking Philly is going to retool so a 24 year old top 6 would stay.

 

[operasen]

Unless we are in a position to draft a forward who can play right away (1-3 slot) with Stutzle, I want either Nemec or Jiricek, who are projected to be NHL ready. My D roster for (lets say late 2022) has Chabot - Thomson, Sandstrom - Zub, Brannstrom - Holden with Bernard-Docker and Nemec/Jiricek as the 7 and 8 put on a rotational basis to fit in quickly. Its time to get this D potential into place. Enough of DJ's favourites

I'd put my efforts into Giroux as the forward acquisition as he's from the area and seems open to considering the Senators (at least not denying the thought). He could be looked at with either Norris or Stutzle as his C. Batherson takes the other. He also covers the C position pretty well ...

I'd also target Kuzmenko as others have indicated. He too could partner Norris or Stutzle. These two solve our lineup quite well. Elite has him LW but I think he can play either side as well.

To start 2022-2023
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson/Giroux
Kuzmenko - Stutzle - Batherson/Giroux
Formenton - Pinto - Brown

I want to look hard carrying Greig early in the mix as a Top 9 which could push Brown into a different slot. Best combination of Paul, Gambrell, Watson, Sokolov, Sanford, Gaudette, Kelly, Crookshank fill out the fourth line. Jarventie, Kastelic, Kelly and similar not quite there yet.

So gone by trade, waivers or buy-out are White, Tierney, Ennis, Sabourin, Bishop, Zaitsev, Mete, MDZ, Brown. Forsberg or Murray is dealt to cover off Gustavsson being on the roster full time.

We are so close to being a good team if Dorion can keep out of his own way and expedite what is right in front of him.

 

[NHL Dude 120]

With the emergence of Thomson and Brannstrom, we have guys who can sustain top 4 minutes in the pipeline. What we don't have, is a top line capable winger for Stutzle. I'm quite high on Sokolov, but there's a greater chance Thomson becomes effective top 4 than Sokolov top 6, so we must ensure to get Stutzle his help.

I think we can snag another winger in this draft and maybe in next year's draft. But I understand.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Absolutely, but I’m thinking Philly is going to retool so a 24 year old top 6 would stay.

That's fair. You're probably right. They are getting pretty old though - Giroux, Hayes, JVR, Ellis. Even Couturier is 29. If they eventually decide to do a full-scale rebuild, perhaps Konecny could be pried away for an arm and a leg. Again, we have the assets, and contracts like that will be invaluable for our intended contention window. I'd rather pay a king's ransom for the perfect fit (player, age, contract, term) than settle for anything less. Here's hoping Philly absolutely implodes over the course of the next year. If not Philly and Konecny, if we stay patient, eventually that perfect fit will come along.

 

[GCK]

That's fair. You're probably right. They are getting pretty old though - Giroux, Hayes, JVR, Ellis. Even Couturier is 29. If they eventually decide to do a full-scale rebuild, perhaps Konecny could be pried away for an arm and a leg. Again, we have the assets, and contracts like that will be invaluable for our intended contention window. I'd rather pay a king's ransom for the perfect fit (player, age, contract, term) than settle for anything less. Here's hoping Philly absolutely implodes over the course of the next year. If not Philly and Konecny, if we stay patient, eventually that perfect fit will come along.

Giroux is gone after this year, JVR after next and Hayes is a trade or buyout candidate after next season as well. I think they get aggressive in the next 2 off seasons and completely remake the team. They have the money to cover off some of their mistakes.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

That's fair. You're probably right. They are getting pretty old though - Giroux, Hayes, JVR, Ellis. Even Couturier is 29. If they eventually decide to do a full-scale rebuild, perhaps Konecny could be pried away for an arm and a leg. Again, we have the assets, and contracts like that will be invaluable for our intended contention window. I'd rather pay a king's ransom for the perfect fit (player, age, contract, term) than settle for anything less. Here's hoping Philly absolutely implodes over the course of the next year. If not Philly and Konecny, if we stay patient, eventually that perfect fit will come along.

This is the key right here. Patience. Although, I think if Giroux becomes available for free, we are ALL over that on a 3 year deal. Free asset that's a top liner , who still has gas left, and will be imperative to the mentorship of young leadership core.

That will allow us to retain our top prospects and hope one/two of

Our selection in 2022(if forward)/Greig/Sokolov/Jarventie/or 2021/2022 picks

Give us invaluable impact on their ELC's or are either ripe enough to replace Giroux and be that missing young piece to our core, or we pounce on the next best thing with deep prospect capital.

 

[JackieDaytona]

Formenton stutzle giroux
Paul pinto brown

that’s 2 lines that could pass as 2nd lines against any team, imo. Rolling that with the chuck norris bath line and then whatever 4th line would be pretty amazing.

 

[God Says No]

Formenton stutzle giroux
Paul pinto brown

that’s 2 lines that could pass as 2nd lines against any team, imo. Rolling that with the chuck norris bath line and then whatever 4th line would be pretty amazing.

Disagree with bolded. That's a straight-through 3rd line there.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Mark Stone Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
He still has 5 years left on his contract so maybe the Sens will have to wait until the end of the 2026-27 season to sign him again. Or if Vegas initiates a rebuild before him contract is up maybe we can reacquire him. Either way it would be great to have Stone finish his career with the Sens.

 

[bicboi64]

I disagree with this sentiment just due to the nature of this particular draft. It is not at all top heavy, but very strong through the top 12-14 or so, maybe even closer to 20. Unless you're picking first overall, I just don't see that much of a difference between 3 and 12. If it is for the right player with the right contract, trade the pick, otherwise don't. The only caveat there being the risk that it is first overall. Shane Wright looks pretty special.

Valid points, its just I don't trust management to select a player who'd be in that 3-12 range based off pro scout lists. I feel like they'll grab someone projected to go early 2nd round or late 1st.

Ah well, here's to hoping we just win the damn 1st overall lotto

 

[TheNewEra]

Disagree with bolded. That's a straight-through 3rd line there.

Its only a 3rd line because of Paul, at least pauls production this year

If we replace paul with someone on the third line and put paul on line 4 then that 'third line' is a second line production wise

 

[Sun God Nika]

if u can find a way to get 1.5M retained on Keller (9M over the term of the contract) you do it. Sens 1st rounder 2022 (top 8) + Jarventie + 1 of Thomson/JBD+ 2023 second + Zaitsev(cap dump)

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Formenton - Stutzle - Keller
Paul - Pinto - Brown
Watson - Greig - Sokolov

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Brannstrom
Klevin - Thomson/JBD

Gustavsson
Sogaard
Leevi

Try to have that line up starting 22-23 and try to keep all those players in tact for 4-5 years and we can see some really good hockey. Obviously you can do the odd upgrade and maybe have someone stand up in the prospect list or FA to bump Formenton to the third line. But Salary cap would likely get maxed at that roster ( Norris ext this summer + Stutzle/Pinto/Zub/Brown the next and Sanderson right after.)

 

[GCK]

if u can find a way to get 1.5M retained on Keller (9M over the term of the contract) you do it. Sens 1st rounder 2022 (top 8) + Jarventie + 1 of Thomson/JBD+ 2023 second + Zaitsev(cap dump)

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Formenton - Stutzle - Keller
Paul - Pinto - Brown
Watson - Greig - Sokolov

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Brannstrom
Klevin - Thomson/JBD

Gustavsson
Sogaard
Leevi

Try to have that line up starting 22-23 and try to keep all those players in tact for 4-5 years and we can see some really good hockey. Obviously you can do the odd upgrade and maybe have someone stand up in the prospect list or FA to bump Formenton to the third line. But Salary cap would likely get maxed at that roster ( Norris ext this summer + Stutzle/Pinto/Zub/Brown the next and Sanderson right after.)

Can’t say I’m current on Keller, but assuming he fits with the team that’s an interesting proposal. I’d imagine the D going back would be Brannstrom.

 

[DJB]

Just don't see how we make a play for Keller. Massive contract and hes small. Two no -nos for our Owner/GM as well as coach.

 

[HSF]

keller is probably worth his current contract and he was available ottawa should be all over that one.

NOt sure if Arizona would move him though since he has a good contract

 

[God Says No]

Its only a 3rd line because of Paul, at least pauls production this year

If we replace paul with someone on the third line and put paul on line 4 then that 'third line' is a second line production wise

I don't see it. I still see about 15 goals each from Pinto and Brown. So unless the new winger scores 30, that's third line production.

 

[GCK]

I don't see it. I still see about 15 goals each from Pinto and Brown. So unless the new winger scores 30, that's third line production.

Brown is more than a 15 goal scorer and I think Pinto will eventually be more than a 15 goal guy, but regardless I’m wondering what you think a 3rd line should produce. Colorado for instance has a 3rd line that’s on pace for38 goals.

 

[God Says No]

Brown is more than a 15 goal scorer and I think Pinto will eventually be more than a 15 goal guy, but regardless I’m wondering what you think a 3rd line should produce. Colorado for instance has a 3rd line that’s on pace for38 goals.

Yeah that seems right. 40 to 45 goals max.

Brown is a 15 to 20 goal scorer. But he's going to be 15 more so than 20. He was on pace for 15 this year.

Pinto too early to tell, but I thought 15 is a good guesstimate for the next couple of years in his early career.

 

[GCK]

Yeah that seems right. 40 to 45 goals max.

Brown is a 15 to 20 goal scorer. But he's going to be 15 more so than 20. He was on pace for 15 this year.

Pinto too early to tell, but I thought 15 is a good guesstimate for the next couple of years in his early career.

That’s reasonable but I’m not really worried about that production in the next 2 years, I’m think about 3 years when we have a chance to be a contender.