Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XXIX

[Puikiou]

If you can't close a deal for Henrique in the next few days, the focus should shift to making a huge push for Tyler Bozak.

Jesus f***king Christ.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

If you can't close a deal for Henrique in the next few days, the focus should shift to making a huge push for Tyler Bozak.

I definitely see him as a last chance option due to his history with DJ or a replacement option if we trade Tierney for someone and need a depth replacement. I also don't see us adding him unless we strike out everywhere and we decide to trade Logan Brown. Our center depth goes a little crazy if we try to keep everyone and add Bozak even if we shift White to the wing. Do you know if Bozak still plays wing a bit?

Something like these maybe?


Tkachuk Norris Batherson
Stutzle Brown Brown
Paul Tierney White
Formenton Bozak Watson


Tkachuk Norris Batherson
Stutzle Pinto Brown
Paul Brown White
Bozak Tierney Watson

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Strome is a talented player, who is absolutely a product of his line mates.

Of course his production is going to be positively impacted playing alongside a top scoring Norris winner, 100+ point Hart nominee and 40g ppg Center on the PP.


He’s not going to be the same player wherever he goes, there’s a reason the Rangers aren’t very high on him, not even qualifying him last season. He’s not worth what his positively effected stats would/will have given him in salary.

This isn’t even true. He was qualified

 

[DaveMatthew]

More like M. Tkachuk or Zibanejad

Give me a player that moves the needle for us

How do you define "moving the needle"?

You could argue that the single most important thing for the Senators next year is helping Stützle develop into a premier, offensive player.

William Nylander went from 13 points/22 games in his rookie season to 61 points/82 games in his 2nd.
Timo Meier went from 36 points/81 games to 66 points/78 games.
Nik Ehlers went from 38 points/72 games to 64 points/82 games.

Can Stützle make a similar jump? It'd help if he could play with someone who:

a) wasn't going through their own rookie growing pains
b) had enough skill to keep plays alive in the offensive zone and didn't have pucks die when they hit their stick
c) had enough hockey sense to understand how to play an effective supporting role on a line with a high-flying offensive talent (not as easy as it sounds - you need to anticipate plays, know where to go, and know how not to get in the way).

A guy like Ryan Strome checks those boxes. That, IMO, moves the needle.

And that's not even considering the importance of having someone who can step up if a guy like Norris or Batherson go down with an injury.

It can't be "current premier NHL all-stars who make $7+ million" or bust.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

This isn’t even true. He was qualified

There was a rumour he wasn't going to be qualified in case he came in at like 5-6M in arbitration, but then they decided to qualify him for one season only after they saw the offers to trade him were trash, and they would have to give term to a UFA instead.

 

[Liver King]

How do you define "moving the needle"?

You could argue that the single most important thing for the Senators next year is helping Stützle develop into a premier, offensive player.

William Nylander went from 13 points/22 games in his rookie season to 61 points/82 games in his 2nd.
Timo Meier went from 36 points/81 games to 66 points/78 games.
Nik Ehlers went from 38 points/72 games to 64 points/82 games.

Can Stützle make a similar jump? It'd help if he could play with someone who:

a) wasn't going through their own rookie growing pains
b) had enough skill to keep plays alive in the offensive zone and didn't have pucks die when they hit their stick
c) had enough hockey sense to understand how to play an effective supporting role on a line with a high-flying offensive talent (not as easy as it sounds - you need to anticipate plays, know where to go, and know how not to get in the way).

A guy like Ryan Strome checks those boxes. That, IMO, moves the needle.

And that's not even considering the importance of having someone who can step up if a guy like Norris or Batherson go down with an injury.

It can't be "current premier NHL all-stars who make $7+ million" or bust.

For me I don't look at getting a player better than someone on our current roster as an improvement (I.e getting a center better than Teirney or White), to improve you need a piece better or on par than your opponents players.

Strome Henrique Monahan..etc, are all players who are better than our current centers- but do not move the needle for the team as they don't compare to our competition imo.

To your point we need our prospects to improve, but that's gonna happen regardless. If you want to compete next season you need a bona-fide piece in the top half of this lineup

If you can't get that, don't waste your assets on stop gaps.

 

[BondraTime]

This isn’t even true. He was qualified

True, my mistake.

The Rangers did not want to get stuck with his QO, and didn’t want to lose him for nothing as his trade value was not what they hoped for, so they gave out a 2 year deal they are now happy to get out of.

 

[Daffy]

I would love to trade for Tyler Bertuzzi. Nice fit with this group.

 

[2CHAINZ]

If you can't close a deal for Henrique in the next few days, the focus should shift to making a huge push for Tyler Bozak.

Puff puff pass bro not puff puff post

 

[DaveMatthew]

For me I don't look at getting a player better than someone on our current roster as an improvement (I.e getting a center better than Teirney or White), to improve you need a piece better or on par than your opponents players.

Strome Henrique Monahan..etc, are all players who are better than our current centers- but do not move the needle for the team as they don't compare to our competition imo.

To your point we need our prospects to improve, but that's gonna happen regardless. If you want to compete next season you need a bona-fide piece in the top half of this lineup

If you can't get that, don't waste your assets on stop gaps.

Competing can also have many different meanings.

If anyone expects the team to compete with Tampa, Florida and Toronto in the standings next season, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.

But that's not necessarily the goal. The goal is to be better than we were last year, and join the bubble group. A realistic target is 80-90 points, and to get there, additions like Monahan and Strome can certainly help.

We're not going to go from bottom-10 team to contender in one season, there'll be steps and progression.

I also disagree, strongly, that our prospects and young players will improve regardless of what we do. Who they're able to play with, and the situations they're put in, has a massive effect.

Pairing Stützle with someone who can make crisp offensive plays is super important, even if they're not all-stars like Eichel or Zibanejad.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

His production jumped suddenly after six years and two different teams. Not just numbers based on additional playing time or shooting percentage, his assist numbers on a per 60 minute rate both on the PP and 5v5. That is pretty much all that has jumped. Now, which is more likely:

1. He, overnight, became a better playmaker at 25.
2. He started playing beside an MVP calibre player and playing way more

I'll let other people decide if this is a "bad take"

1. I guess two seasons is overnight. He had a 50-point sophomore season; the talent to be a decent playmaker has always been there. He played for offense starved Islanders and Oilers teams which correlates to his poor seasons.

2.If Ottawa entertains trading for him, he would be playing next to Stutzle (a guy we're hoping becomes a MVP-style player).

You don't put up near PPG solely based off your linemates. Does he gain by playing next to Panarin? Absolutely. But to discount his abilities is too harsh. He would be a good stop-gap 2C.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

I personally would be fine taking on some of these lower tier C's. However the problem like I said before is we are going to overpay for a season or two and they will either play themselves into a big time raise or will play poorly and walk away. I have no problem buying low on some these C's that are being thrown around but if Pierre valued one year of Stepan at a 2nd rd pick, I am scared to death to see how he values Monahan, Strome, Henrique, Kadri, etc.

I'm guessing that's why Pierre #2 was brought on.
Paying a 2nd for Stepan was outrageous.

 

[Big Muddy]

Pagnotta said the three teams left on Eichel the Ducks, Calgary, and NYR

So, basically, the three teams we've been linked to.

I think it is fair to say my guess is probably accurate and we should be rooting for Eichel to go to whichever team has the player you want: Henrique, Strome, or Monahan


So, I guess, go Flames? Get that Eichel!

Not sure about the Ducks. IIRC, I think they don't spend to maximum cap typically. And, according to some of their fans, they have a habit of moving their players when they hit their payday contracts. I'm not a Duck expert though, and I see they have the 2nd lowest project cap hit in their division (Kraken are lower, but only by a very small amount) and already have 22 players under contract. I guess its possible they've decided to do something different this year. We shall see I suppose.

 

[Big Muddy]

If our options are Strome, Monohan, Kadri, Kerfoot and Henrique, we should just stand pat.

Just kicking the can down the road.

Dvorak as well makes zero sense. More of why we have.

The only one on that list that I have warmed up to a bit lately is Kadri because he only has one year left on his current contract. If he plays well & fits, we could always make a decision to extend. But, I would only be interested if the price (assets lost) was moderate.

 

[PlayOn]

How do you define "moving the needle"?

You could argue that the single most important thing for the Senators next year is helping Stützle develop into a premier, offensive player.

William Nylander went from 13 points/22 games in his rookie season to 61 points/82 games in his 2nd.
Timo Meier went from 36 points/81 games to 66 points/78 games.
Nik Ehlers went from 38 points/72 games to 64 points/82 games.

Can Stützle make a similar jump? It'd help if he could play with someone who:

a) wasn't going through their own rookie growing pains
b) had enough skill to keep plays alive in the offensive zone and didn't have pucks die when they hit their stick
c) had enough hockey sense to understand how to play an effective supporting role on a line with a high-flying offensive talent (not as easy as it sounds - you need to anticipate plays, know where to go, and know how not to get in the way).

A guy like Ryan Strome checks those boxes. That, IMO, moves the needle.

And that's not even considering the importance of having someone who can step up if a guy like Norris or Batherson go down with an injury.

It can't be "current premier NHL all-stars who make $7+ million" or bust.

I agree with all of this, however:

a) What does Strome ultimately cost us?
b) He’s a UFA and will probably want some term going forward. Are we willing to give him that? (I hope not)
c) Are we going to be having the same conversation next year, trying to find another Stepan, Strome, or whoever else?

At what point do we stop re-evaluating year by year and actually use our assets on someone that can stick around and help us long-term? We should be nearing the end stages of the rebuild and adding guys to help us now and in the future, at some point this revolving door of stop gaps has to end.

 

[Big Muddy]

I'm guessing that's why Pierre #2 was brought on.
Paying a 2nd for Stepan was outrageous.

Some portray this as a good move because he was a vet to lead & mentor.

 

[Liver King]

Competing can also have many different meanings.

If anyone expects the team to compete with Tampa, Florida and Toronto in the standings next season, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.

But that's not necessarily the goal. The goal is to be better than we were last year, and join the bubble group. A realistic target is 80-90 points, and to get there, additions like Monahan and Strome can certainly help.

We're not going to go from bottom-10 team to contender in one season, there'll be steps and progression.

I also disagree, strongly, that our prospects and young players will improve regardless of what we do. Who they're able to play with, and the situations they're put in, has a massive effect.

Pairing Stützle with someone who can make crisp offensive plays is super important, even if they're not all-stars like Eichel or Zibanejad.

Yeah I'll agree to disagree, bargain bin centerman will do little to support the development of key prospects. A high end piece will both move the needle and have a great effect on how our prospects grow.

But this doesn't have to be a summer where we look to add a key piece, I'm just definitely not spending good assets on guys who do absolutely nothing for this franchise. Monahan and Strome aren't free agents, these guys are gonna cost assets and cap - unless they are incredibly cheap its just a poor strategy imo as they don't truly help where we're tryna go

Maybe they cost a lot less than I'm expecting though

 

[ATdaisuki]

I'm really not interested in any of Strome, Monohan, Kadri, Kerfoot, or Henrique. I don't believe the above players are anything special, or "move the needle" in any meaningful way. I would much rather let White, Brown, and Pinto battle it out for that second line center role than get one of these guys.

I am FIRMLY in the camp that the team should make a splash for Eichel or play the kids. If the kids match expectations, we still have a shot at being bad enough to finish in the bottom 10, giving us a shot at Wright. Eichel and the 2022 draft look like our last shots at getting a #1 center. I don't believe looking out for your long term health is an attitude problem, so the only flag I have with Eichel is his health. Listening to the interview with his doctor alleviated some concerns over this.

Pinto
White
Unprotected 2022 1st
Greig
Choice of any defenseman in the system not named Chabot, Sanderson, or Zub
Choice of any goalie in the system

Roster by the end of the 2021-2022 season and potentially for the 2022-23 season:

Stützle - Eichel - Brown
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Paul - Brown - Formenton
Bishop - Tierney - Watson

Chabot - Zaitzev
Sanderson - Zub
Brannstrom/Mete/Del Zotto/Holden - Brannstrom/Mete/Holden/Brown/JBD/Thompson

Murray/Forsberg/Gustavsson

Two elite offensive forwards, a stellar 2nd line, bottom six with a bit of everything. The top 4 defense of the future, and a solid bottom pair. Goaltending will be the only thing we'll be iffy on, but that team looks playoff bound.

We'll still have a glut of goalie prospects, good winger prospects, and some defense reinforcements as well. If you don't think that package is enough for Eichel, I don't see how you project us to be a playoff team any time soon. If you look at how most Sens fans project the roster in the future, that package contains our future 50-65 point matchup monster second line center, many people's "darkhorse" for another second line center or at least a good second line winger and a top 4 defenseman - three key players in our future lineup - plus a potentially high first in a good draft. They also get a young player with some potential in White and a choice of a goalie now, or one of our high end goalie prospects (position of great need for them).

If you believe that the Sens can't afford Eichel and to keep the guys we have now long term. That's fair. I believe that bridging the core we have and trading for Eichel will lead to a better team that isn't in a different price category than paying to lock up the core we have AND a much better team. I would much rather bridge Tkachuk at 6.5 million, Norris at 5 million, Batherson at 4.5 million, and have Eichel at 10 million (26 million total) than sign Tkachuk at 8, Norris at 7, and Batherson at 5.5 and Pinto at 5 million (25.5 million total). It gives us a shorter looking window, but it makes the team better now, something that could lead to more ticket sales and more revenue to sign some of these guys to another deal after the bridge. When I look at our team and prospects right now, I don't see a cup winner. I see a very good team that can make some runs, but is missing the star power most cup teams have. Eichel is a chance to fix that and cement ourselves as cup contenders starting 2022-2023.

 

[PlayOn]

I'm really not interested in any of Strome, Monohan, Kadri, Kerfoot, or Henrique. I don't believe the above players are anything special, or "move the needle" in any meaningful way. I would much rather let White, Brown, and Pinto battle it out for that second line center role than get one of these guys.

I am FIRMLY in the camp that the team should make a splash for Eichel or play the kids. If the kids match expectations, we still have a shot at being bad enough to finish in the bottom 10, giving us a shot at Wright. Eichel and the 2022 draft look like our last shots at getting a #1 center. I don't believe looking out for your long term health is an attitude problem, so the only flag I have with Eichel is his health. Listening to the interview with his doctor alleviated some concerns over this.

Pinto
White
Unprotected 2022 1st
Greig
Choice of any defenseman in the system not named Chabot, Sanderson, or Zub
Choice of any goalie in the system

Roster by the end of the 2021-2022 season and potentially for the 2022-23 season:

Stützle - Eichel - Brown
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Paul - Brown - Formenton
Bishop - Tierney - Watson

Chabot - Zaitzev
Sanderson - Zub
Brannstrom/Mete/Del Zotto/Holden - Brannstrom/Mete/Holden/Brown/JBD/Thompson

Murray/Forsberg/Gustavsson

Two elite offensive forwards, a stellar 2nd line, bottom six with a bit of everything. The top 4 defense of the future, and a solid bottom pair. Goaltending will be the only thing we'll be iffy on, but that team looks playoff bound.

We'll still have a glut of goalie prospects, good winger prospects, and some defense reinforcements as well. If you don't think that package is enough for Eichel, I don't see how you project us to be a playoff team any time soon. If you look at how most Sens fans project the roster in the future, that package contains our future 50-65 point matchup monster second line center, many people's "darkhorse" for another second line center or at least a good second line winger and a top 4 defenseman - three key players in our future lineup - plus a potentially high first in a good draft. They also get a young player with some potential in White and a choice of a goalie now, or one of our high end goalie prospects (position of great need for them).

If you believe that the Sens can't afford Eichel and to keep the guys we have now long term. That's fair. I believe that bridging the core we have and trading for Eichel will lead to a better team that isn't in a different price category than paying to lock up the core we have AND a much better team. I would much rather bridge Tkachuk at 6.5 million, Norris at 5 million, Batherson at 4.5 million, and have Eichel at 10 million (26 million total) than sign Tkachuk at 8, Norris at 7, and Batherson at 5.5 and Pinto at 5 million (25.5 million total). It gives us a shorter looking window, but it makes the team better now, something that could lead to more ticket sales and more revenue to sign some of these guys to another deal after the bridge. When I look at our team and prospects right now, I don't see a cup winner. I see a very good team that can make some runs, but is missing the star power most cup teams have. Eichel is a chance to fix that and cement ourselves as cup contenders starting 2022-2023.

That’s a lot to give up. You’re losing three centres in the deal (two with very good upside) and are now immediately without a 3C, they’re likely taking Gus so you’re pinning all your short-term hopes on Murray (Soogard, Mandolese and Merilainen all need time) and you’re getting an Eichel next season who may or may not be hurt. If that’s the case, this would mean we start the season with Norris as the only capable C on our entire team - which would be disastrous for our pick, which is also not lottery protected. And that’s not even discussing whichever D they take, which is probably Brannstrom.

Seems like a very short-sighted move to me.

 

[2CHAINZ]

I'm guessing that's why Pierre #2 was brought on.
Paying a 2nd for Stepan was outrageous.

Well Pierre 2 is here and there is talks of Steone for Brannstrom. Will we be bringing a Pierre 3 if that trade goes down ?

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Well Pierre 2 is here and there is talks of Steone for Brannstrom. Will we be bringing a Pierre 3 if that trade goes down ?

Don't think Brannstrom would be included in a Strome deal. In a package for Eichel though? Absolutely. But no chance Ottawa gets Eichel. Package for Strome probably includes L.Brown and a high pick.

 

[cudi]

Well Pierre 2 is here and there is talks of Steone for Brannstrom. Will we be bringing a Pierre 3 if that trade goes down ?

I think Pierre Groulx is still lurking the CTC somewhere

 

[PlayOn]

Don't think Brannstrom would be included in a Strome deal. In a package for Eichel though? Absolutely. But no chance Ottawa gets Eichel. Package for Strome probably includes L.Brown and a high pick.

If it’s Brown and a 2nd I’m okay with that. Brown is clearly done here anyway and we can probably recoup the 2nd at the deadline. Brannstrom for one year of Strome is just madness.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Strome, Henrique and Monahan being discussed is depressing sure it’s better compared to Aberg, Holden and MDZ but point still stands

If we are going to be a bunch of losers and pass on Eichel because he’s making 10M, just tank completely and hope you get #1 pick

 

[Big Muddy]

Strome, Henrique and Monahan being discussed is depressing sure it’s better compared to Aberg, Holden and MDZ but point still stands

If we are going to be a bunch of losers and pass on Eichel because he’s making 10M, just tank completely and hope you get #1 pick

Hope Holden & MDZ play reasonably well and turn out to be at least decent stop gaps. Not sure why, but I get a "Stepan vibe" from MDZ though. Hope I'm wrong about that.