Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals 2019-20 PART IX

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
13,408
3,324
Ottawa is a great city, you should stop running it down. Jersey ain’t Tampa or Vegas.

Ottawa is a great city for Multi millionaire 25 years olds trying to reduce their tax burden ? I think not ...

I love Ottawa ... it’s a great city for middle class families but there is a reason why we are on nearly 99.9% of all no trade lists. We can’t even get hockey exec’s to move here let alone an owner want to own this team.
 
Last edited:

robsenz

Registered User
Apr 15, 2007
3,560
2,423
Don’t expect much.

Exactly. Fans should temper those expectations considerably and just be happy he's in a better place, his production will likely increase a bit, but can't see how he can be a consistent top 6 player night in a night out at his age.
 

JungleBeat

Registered User
Sep 10, 2016
5,157
3,664
Canada
I doubt that's the case when unfortunately it's often an assumption made simply because of the color of his skin. Many NHLers are black and do not get nearly the same amount of critique as Subban. If it was simply because he was black it would be the same for other guys like Simmonds, Reaves, Dumba, and etc. There have been players that have spoken about Subban and how he is in the room and for some reason that is ommitted, any other player would be hated for doing the things that he does.

Mike Ribeiro, Guillaume Latendresse and Maxime Lapierre spoke about that on their podcast a couple weeks ago, saying that when he was with the Habs Subban was basically running his little show in the room. The context of the discussion was that Ribeiro played with both Subban and Weber, and he was mentionning that he knew at the time of the trade that it would be a mistake for Nashville as Weber was very respected in the room in Nashville while Subban wasn't getting the same type of respect from his teammates in Montreal. Subban never fit in Nashville and was then traded.

Another player that spoke about this was Brandon Prust on spittin chicklets and mentionned an incident with Subban in Montreal. Subban at that point was becoming a "leader" in Montreal and the team was going on a roadtrip through Florida. Subban told his teammates that no one should go to Miami and they would have a team dinner/evening after the game which is basically team bonding. When the game finished, PK left for Miami after telling all his teammates that they needed to stay for the team bonding. Prust knew Subban was leaving regardless of what he was saying to his other teammates and took his shoes in his bag and hid them. Subban then fought Prust in the team bus a couple weeks later when they confronted because of it. Prust is an idiot, the point is that Subban being supposedly a leader on that team and asking all his teammates to be there at the team bonding and himself not being there and leaving for Miami is idiotic. If one of my teammates did that I would be furious, especially as a so called leader.

Not only that, but Subban fought with many teammates throughout his career, and not necessarily guys that were known to be assholes either. Subban fought with Plekanec, Mathieu Darche, and Loui Leblanc at the Habs practice. On a separate occasion, he fought against David Desharnais at practice.

After Subban was traded to Nashville, there as also visibly tension between Subban and Gallagher who had also already fought in practice. Gallagher mentionned that he didn't notice Subban smiling that night, but noticed the blood on his face after Gallaghers goal.

So I mean you can totally omit these things if you want, but that's not a fair assessment. It doesn't make sense to say that he's hated because he's black. Many other black players do not do these type of things and basically all of them are very well respected by all players. It seems to be a personality thing more than anything. There are plenty of hated white players as well, and it's not because of the color of their skin. Subban was probably one of the most loved Montreal Canadiens ever. Mike Hoffman is apparently a hated guy in the room as well and there are many others.

NOW, there are some racist hockey fans and players, just like there are racists in society in general. Subban is probably hated by some people because of his color, but no other black hockey player is hated even remotely close to the point that he is and there's a reason for that.
Montreal had their best recent success with Subban and so did Nashville.

Also, those former Habs players you listed wouldn’t have played even a full season with PK, just a couple games when he was a rookie. And I highly doubt a rookie is causing locking room drama. Ribeiro is the only guy that would have played any meaningful time with him after his career was established and sounds like he was wrong. Nashville has their most success with PK after trading Weber.

Fighting with teammates in practice is nothing new. In fact, some might say it brings up the intensity of the practice. Neil fought with Razor, Cowen and Conacher, probably even more that we don’t know about and Neil was seen as a great leader.

The Prust storey is bad I’ll give you that lol. Sneaking away to Miami after missing dinner. :skeptic:
 
Last edited:

JungleBeat

Registered User
Sep 10, 2016
5,157
3,664
Canada
Exactly. Fans should temper those expectations considerably and just be happy he's in a better place, his production will likely increase a bit, but can't see how he can be a consistent top 6 player night in a night out at his age.
Yeah. Two years left on his deal, just hope the guy is healthy and enjoys retirement after his contract is up. His skating is not getting any better and he’s aging.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
54,218
31,422
Also, those former Habs players you listed wouldn’t have played even a full season with PK, just a couple games when he was a rookie. And I highly doubt a rookie is causing locking room drama. Ribeiro is the only guy that would have played any meaningful time with him after his career was established and sounds like he was wrong.

You might want to double check that. Prust played with mtl for three seasons starting with tbe year Subban won the Norris. Gallagher was also there full time for the same three seasons, Plekanec was there those three seasons plus all the years before his norris season, Desharnais too, so Darche and Leblanc i guess is right though Subban had established himself as a top 4 dman for 2 of the years Darche was there, albeit not as a norris winning one.
 

BigRig4

Registered User
Feb 22, 2014
3,090
1,124
Ottawa is a great city for Multi millionaire 25 years olds trying to reduce their tax burden ? I think not ...

I love Ottawa ... it’s a great city for middle class families but there is a reason why we are on nearly 99.9% of all no trade lists. We can’t even get hockey exec’s to move here let alone an owner want to own this team.

Players love the city. We're on the no-trade lists because of the team itself.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
54,218
31,422
Players love the city. We're on the no-trade lists because of the team itself.

No trade lists pertain to players 27 and older for the most part (25 year olds don't typically have NTC as they aren't eligible unilt 27 yrs old or 7 accrued seasons), and in fact when they actually come into play it's usually even older, so it's not the young kids searching for ways to go out and party as much as guys looking to control their fate in terms of winning orgs and good spots for their families.

Weather is certainly a factor for some, taxes to a lesser extent (about 2 thirds of teams are within about 5% of effective tax rates of Ontario so while that is a hindrance, it's not the end of the world)

But, the biggest issues are almost certainly a winning program and willingness to spend to the cap/provide bonus structures.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigRig4

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
15,891
10,129
Players love the city. We're on the no-trade lists because of the team itself.
EK still lives here. It’s the owner plain and simple, and the poor atmosphere in the building IMO. A young up and coming team takes care of the second issue IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NB613 and BigRig4

Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
13,408
3,324
Players love the city. We're on the no-trade lists because of the team itself.

That’s not true. Most no trade lists identify all CDN teams for tax reasons alone.

who loves the city ? Sure we have a few but most signs show players leaving and nobody with any control of their path chooses to sign with Ottawa.

We get players like Ennis and Hainsey. The odd player connects with the community or a local girl and sticks around if we pay them well (Phillips, Neil). For every one of those there are more families that don’t even bother to come to Canada.

Not many Sens stay here during the off season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BoardsofCanada

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
54,218
31,422
That’s not true. Most no trade lists identify all CDN teams for tax reasons alone.

That seems suspicious; Roughly 40% of American teams have a very similar tax situation to the two Alberta teams (around 47% estimated effective tax rate) and American players that live in a no tax state (or any preferable tax state) but play in Canada can use workarounds (like Matthews did) to reduce the discrepancies.
 

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
15,891
10,129
That’s not true. Most no trade lists identify all CDN teams for tax reasons alone.

who loves the city ? Sure we have a few but most signs show players leaving and nobody with any control of their path chooses to sign with Ottawa.

We get players like Ennis and Hainsey. The odd player connects with the community or a local girl and sticks around if we pay them well (Phillips, Neil). For every one of those there are more families that don’t even bother to come to Canada.

Not many Sens stay here during the off season.
This is a bad take. The tax situation is so overblown. Americans with bonuses playing in Canada pay less tax on the bonuses, CRA has deferral programs that are very lucrative as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigRig4

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,983
9,408
That’s not true. Most no trade lists identify all CDN teams for tax reasons alone.

who loves the city ? Sure we have a few but most signs show players leaving and nobody with any control of their path chooses to sign with Ottawa.

We get players like Ennis and Hainsey. The odd player connects with the community or a local girl and sticks around if we pay them well (Phillips, Neil). For every one of those there are more families that don’t even bother to come to Canada.

Not many Sens stay here during the off season.

It's more about players wanting to avoid media and fans when outside the arena. That's why most Canadian cities are usually on no trade lists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NB613 and JD1

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
54,218
31,422
This is a bad take. The tax situation is so overblown. Americans with bonuses playing in Canada pay less tax on the bonuses, CRA has deferral programs that are very lucrative as well.

Yep, there are ways to even the playing field for taxes, and while it's not perfect, if you are using up 7 spots on you no trade clause because of taxes, your agent is doing you a massive disservice.
 

Silencio

Registered User
Nov 6, 2006
3,979
4,852
Toronto
Mike Ribeiro, Guillaume Latendresse and Maxime Lapierre spoke about that on their podcast a couple weeks ago, saying that when he was with the Habs Subban was basically running his little show in the room. The context of the discussion was that Ribeiro played with both Subban and Weber, and he was mentionning that he knew at the time of the trade that it would be a mistake for Nashville as Weber was very respected in the room in Nashville while Subban wasn't getting the same type of respect from his teammates in Montreal. Subban never fit in Nashville and was then traded.

Mike Ribeiro taking shots at Subban's character? Talk about the pot calling the kettle....never mind.
 

The Devilish Buffoon

🇵🇸 viva 🇵🇸 free 🇵🇸
Dec 24, 2018
12,303
11,097
Me too. Subban wouldn't be viewed as a problem if he were white.

I dont know if this is entirely accurate. I dont think anyone feels like Subban is a bad guy, but teammates get frustrated with his lack of seriousness. He just doesn't bring a serious tone, which isn't really accepted in hockey. I think that has good and bad outcomes for the game. That said, I think both Bobby and PK would fit well on this team, in terms of personality. Same with a guy like Matt Duchene. But, can you count on them to put guys in their place, to lead when times are rough, to get guys focused? That, I dont think so.

To me, the biggest reason why PKs personality has been criticized is because of his ability and role, not his skin colour. If he was a role player, he'd be praised. For some reason, though, teams dont seem to want that type of approach from their top players and media seizes on it. We saw it with Ovie until very recently, and I am sure Matthews and Marner will get it if success continues to allude them.

Dont get me wrong, I have no doubt that Subban faces racism, both subtle and overt, from teammates, competitors, fans, coaches, staff, and media, but I dont think if he was white he would be immune from some of the critiques that are levied against him. I think its much more nuanced than that.

As for the proposal, I dont think it would sit well if we traded Ryan right now (unless he wanted it). He's gone through a very tough time and to uproot him right now (and send him back to his home base, a place where he suffered) is insensitive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thinkwild

Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
13,408
3,324
It's funny how NTC seem to hurt us both ways, guys allegedly both refuse to waive to come here and refuse to waive when we try to trade them away.

You mean when we try to trade them to Edmonton ? The list of players happy to leave Ottawa is a lot bigger then the list of players happy to come here. I’m not sure what to say if you think Ottawa is considered a great destination for NHL players.
 

Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
13,408
3,324
That seems suspicious; Roughly 40% of American teams have a very similar tax situation to the two Alberta teams (around 47% estimated effective tax rate) and American players that live in a no tax state (or any preferable tax state) but play in Canada can use workarounds (like Matthews did) to reduce the discrepancies.

So the worst US states are close the the best CDN provinces ... unfortunately not us ... do you know what city has the highest tax burden in the NHL ? Where do we rank?

Matthews didn’t have a choice, when he gets a choice where do you think he will play?
 

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
15,891
10,129
So the worst US states are close the the best CDN provinces ... unfortunately not us ... do you know what city has the highest tax burden in the NHL ? Where do we rank?

Matthews didn’t have a choice, when he gets a choice where do you think he will play?
Again there are ways to reduce the tax burden substantially. It’s a faulty argument to just look at published marginal tax rates.
 

Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
13,408
3,324
Again there are ways to reduce the tax burden substantially. It’s a faulty argument to just look at published marginal tax rates.

You make it sound like “reducing” the tax burden is appealing to players. Option A is $5 million , option B was improved to $4.25 with a tax saving scheme. Which choice do you think players want ?

Look, trying to justify that Ottawa is equally appealing to young millionaires as most Us cities is a waste of time (to me) . If you believe it great - go meet them all at Kanata Centrum or where ever you think they all hangout.
 

FormentonTheFuture

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
7,761
3,732
It's funny how NTC seem to hurt us both ways, guys allegedly both refuse to waive to come here and refuse to waive when we try to trade them away.
Yeah, Ottawa is a good option once guys get to know the city and team. When you have no knowledge of the place other than road games, it won't be attractive
 

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
15,891
10,129
You make it sound like “reducing” the tax burden is appealing to players. Option A is $5 million , option B was improved to $4.25 with a tax saving scheme. Which choice do you think players want ?

Look, trying to justify that Ottawa is equally appealing to young millionaires as most Us cities is a waste of time (to me) . If you believe it great - go meet them all at Kanata Centrum or where ever you think they all hangout.
You were wrong about the tax situation which was what I’m correcting. I can’t argue that Tampa, NYR, Ari, Vegas, all Cali and soon to be Seattle are the most desirable locations in the league.
 

BoardsofCanada

Registered User
Aug 26, 2009
1,090
1,230
G.T.A.
Ottawa is a beautiful city. I was born and raised there ... had to move away for work and miss it. But, I agree with Sweatred. Older star players do not want to play in Ottawa. I believe weather is the number one reason. The warmer climates are just easier on an athlete's body.

Taxes, winning and privacy/anonymity are the other reasons.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad