Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 19)

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Ok but what does bringing it up add to a conversation? Every single person here is already well aware of the situation.

So that trade proposals, offer sheets, FA signings, etc. stay within the realm of what's realistic for the Ottawa Senators, not pages and pages of fantasy land offers where we take on salary, throw offer sheets at high profile FA's, or can assume players will be re-signed.

 

[bert]

Too many folks on both sides of the fence stuck on the same routine.

By now, we've all said our piece on the matter and no one is "switching sides"...yet the yapping still goes on and on and on. At this point, it's on the posters, not the mods.

The real question is how are there so many people on opposite sides of the fence. Why is the side that no one should be on (ownership defenders) is the basis for threads being closed. Considering the confirmed reports of Melnyks internet manipulation (yost's site and twitter bots) its a little suspicious dont you think? All it does is create more negativity towards ownership at the end of the day. People deserve to vent, ownership refuses to take responsibility for any of whats happened and sens fans cant even talk about it?

 

[BonkTastic]

Frolik for Boro

Flames do it because they need a cheap dman and they need cap space for their RFAs.

Ottawa does it because Frolik becomes an asset to flip at the deadline.

I want this to happen, but I don't expect it to happen.

I honestly think that this org values Boro's "intangibles" too much to trade him away in a season where they think his presence in the locker room will help mitigate what is looking to be a season full of struggles.

I don't agree with their assessment of Boro, but I think the team has tunnel-vision for Boro and can't see past the idea of what they think he brings to get a good view of what he actually offers.

I'd loooooooove to be wrong about this. I hope I'm wrong about this. I just worry I'm not wrong about this.

 

[Micklebot]

I want this to happen, but I don't expect it to happen.

I honestly think that this org values Boro's "intangibles" too much to trade him away in a season where they think his presence in the locker room will help mitigate what is looking to be a season full of struggles.

I don't agree with their assessment of Boro, but I think the team has tunnel-vision for Boro and can't see past the idea of what they think he brings to get a good view of what he actually offers.

I'd loooooooove to be wrong about this. I hope I'm wrong about this. I just worry I'm not wrong about this.

Boro is nearly the perfect 6/7 dman imo. Someone who should play 30 to 60 games a year, depending on injuries and what not. I suspect he's the guy the coach loves in practice because he's going to get the intensity up a notch or two. Will never cost too much, but shouldn't ever block a young kid either.

On the ice though, he's entirely replacement level. When he's on his game, he's playing within his means, in a similar way to how Carkner used to only not as good. But, he's to often relied on more than is appropriate, so it all goes sideways fast.

I really have a soft spot for the guy, puts it all out there and I've always felt that type of player is infectious; the rest of the team will see him put his body on the line and out of respect, go that extra mile. But, I think in the future, Tkachuk is going to be the one that inspires teammates to ratchet up the intensity, so Boro won't be needed in that regard anymore. Now is absolutely the time to move him, because I suspect his body won't hold up much longer (see Volchenkov) and while he's not going to return much, I think it's in both parties best interest.

 

[bert]

Boro is nearly the perfect 6/7 dman imo. Someone who should play 30 to 60 games a year, depending on injuries and what not. I suspect he's the guy the coach loves in practice because he's going to get the intensity up a notch or two. Will never cost too much, but shouldn't ever block a young kid either.

On the ice though, he's entirely replacement level. When he's on his game, he's playing within his means, in a similar way to how Carkner used to only not as good. But, he's to often relied on more than is appropriate, so it all goes sideways fast.

I really have a soft spot for the guy, puts it all out there and I've always felt that type of player is infectious; the rest of the team will see him put his body on the line and out of respect, go that extra mile. But, I think in the future, Tkachuk is going to be the one that inspires teammates to ratchet up the intensity, so Boro won't be needed in that regard anymore. Now is absolutely the time to move him, because I suspect his body won't hold up much longer (see Volchenkov) and while he's not going to return much, I think it's in both parties best interest.

I agree with this assesment,. I think his play was out of control at times last year, he was trying to do way too much. He was given far too much responsibility for his skill level. As soon as he stops playing within himself is when the problems start happening, he needs to chip it out, get it in deep and make the simple play. As soon as he starts running around is when all hell breaks loose.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Ok but what does bringing it up add to a conversation? Every single person here is already well aware of the situation.

Which conversation or are you saying there is no conversation to which it would add anything?

 

[MatchesMalone]

Which conversation or are you saying there is no conversation to which it would add anything?

Just in general. Not saying there is never a place for it, but it seems to constantly get brought up for no apparent reason.

Someone else mentioned that the reason is because people keep making fantasy trade/signing proposals that don't account for the financial situation. Who cares? People make fantasy proposals anyway. They're just for fun and 95% of the proposals people make on hockey forums are absurd anyway.

What's worse, pages and pages of riduculous fantasy proposals, or pages and pages of bitching about an ownership situation? I can guarantee you one thing: the likelyhood that bitching about the ownership is going to make a difference to the situation is about the same as the likelihood that one of those trade proposals is going to get a trade done.

 

[Agent Zub]

Boro won't get traded because hes Melnyks and Dorions "guy" in the dressing room. A player who has blind loyalty towards and will parrot whatever message that Melnyk/Dorion want.

Not to mention, no self respecting contender should have Boro anywhere near there roster.

He's a liability in the defensive zone, the neutral zone and the offensive zone. He can hit yea, but most of the time players make a fool of him because they know it's coming and know he's gonna chase to make the hit.

There's probably a defenceman or two on every AHL team who would be a better NHLer than Boro.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Anyway, I'm not gonna talk about it any further [mod]
I'm here to talk about hockey and the players playing it, not the finances and scandals of the billionaires behind the scenes, which is why I generally avoid the Melnyk stuff altogether.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Just in general. Not saying there is never a place for it, but it seems to constantly get brought up for no apparent reason.

Someone else mentioned that the reason is because people keep making fantasy trade/signing proposals that don't account for the financial situation. Who cares? People make fantasy proposals anyway. They're just for fun and 95% of the proposals people make on hockey forums are absurd anyway.

What's worse, pages and pages of riduculous fantasy proposals, or pages and pages of *****ing about an ownership situation? I can guarantee you one thing: the likelyhood that *****ing about the ownership is going to make a difference to the situation is about the same as the likelihood that one of those trade proposals is going to get a trade done.

I agree that it gets in the way and its the go to for some posters. I just don't like to color everything with the same brush. Sometimes its part of the discussion . Sometimes it doesn't have to be that's for sure.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Just in general. Not saying there is never a place for it, but it seems to constantly get brought up for no apparent reason.

Someone else mentioned that the reason is because people keep making fantasy trade/signing proposals that don't account for the financial situation. Who cares? People make fantasy proposals anyway. They're just for fun and 95% of the proposals people make on hockey forums are absurd anyway.

What's worse, pages and pages of riduculous fantasy proposals, or pages and pages of *****ing about an ownership situation? I can guarantee you one thing: the likelyhood that *****ing about the ownership is going to make a difference to the situation is about the same as the likelihood that one of those trade proposals is going to get a trade done.

Its the issue that impacts basically every decision the organization makes, so at some point during discussions, it's going to be raised as a factor, and likely the deciding factor for whatever is being discussed.

 

[BonkTastic]

Scherwey just signed like a crazy 8 year extension with Bern in the Swiss league. I'm curious if it even has an NHL out clause in it.

Scherwey is the Swiss League's biggest super-pest. He's like their Brad Marchand. Every Swiss League fan hates him except for Bern fans, who adore him.

He's the kind of guy who every single coach wants on their team. I have no idea if his skill level is up to NHL standards. Honestly, I would not be shocked if he played his way onto this team on the 4th line. I'm not expecting it to happen, but it wouldn't surprise me either. I guarantee that Smith is going to fall in love with him. It's just a matter of if his skill is enough to hang at the NHL level.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Scherwey just signed like a crazy 8 year extension with Bern in the Swiss league. I'm curious if it even has an NHL out clause in it.

Scherwey is the Swiss League's biggest super-pest. He's like their Brad Marchand. Every Swiss League fan hates him except for Bern fans, who adore him.

I am not sure about that. I moved those posts to the 2019-2020 Training Camp PTO Thread. I felt it would be better to create a thread as Murray Pam suggested that there are multiple PTOs this year. You could move your post there for further discussion.

 

[Boud]

I'd loooooooove to be wrong about this. I hope I'm wrong about this. I just worry I'm not wrong about this.

This is a very accurate description of my life as a Sens fan ever since there were rumours of Karlsson getting traded. Turns out I was wrong in *all* circumstances lmao.

 

[Cosmix]

For what its worth I went to the sens game in calgary and i watched brannstrom quite closely. He really had his head on a swivel. I thought by his body language i could tell how engaged he was. Constantly scanning the ice at a rapid rate. I really believe he will be a fan favorite, you can tell he's a tryhard which i personally enjoy a lot.

I wish we didnt have to trade stone for him and i'm not going to say good/bad trade. I have enjoyed brannstrom from what i've seen and i look forward to seeing him next year.

I am willing to wait and see how Brannstrom develops but I do have concern about his size and ability to play in the NHL.

I am not thinking about trading him; I would rather get rid of Dorion and Melnyk. However I understand some posters views about getting a larger Defenseman.

 

[Sweatred]

I am willing to wait and see how Brannstrom develops but I do have concern about his size and ability to play in the NHL.

I am not thinking about trading him; I would rather get rid of Dorion and Melnyk. However I understand some posters views about getting a larger Defenseman.

I would like to sell high on one of the puck movers.

I’d love to see Sens try to pump up Wolanin as a sell high candidate. Give Wolanin a tonne of PP time and start EB in Belleville. Find a team willing to over pay for a puck mover for an asset that would get us some size. We would still have TC,EB,JBD,LT,MJ etx.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Also have Demelo, Tierney and Pageau as tradable pieces worth something around a 2nd each.

Hainsey, Boro and Ennis might fetch a late 6th or 7th rounder too.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Also have Demelo, Tierney and Pageau as tradable pieces worth something around a 2nd each.

Hainsey, Boro and Ennis might fetch a late 6th or 7th rounder too.

If we traded them all to the same team ... and we have the right GM on the other end... We might get someone like Karlsson back.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If we traded them all to the same team ... and we have the right GM on the other end... We might get someone like Karlsson back.

6 assets for only 1 player?!?! What a ripoff.

 

[MatchesMalone]

I would like to sell high on one of the puck movers.

I’d love to see Sens try to pump up Wolanin as a sell high candidate. Give Wolanin a tonne of PP time and start EB in Belleville. Find a team willing to over pay for a puck mover for an asset that would get us some size. We would still have TC,EB,JBD,LT,MJ etx.

It's an interesting idea as you're right, Wolanin with a good year could have the most value of any of them right now, but I'd rather have the bird in hand. Trading away an established NHLer and keeping the prospects just slows down the rebuild. I really think if we do this right we only need one more year of full tank, and could be a serious contender by '22/23.

And then when you consider how many good picks and prospects we have right now, what would we be trading Wolanin for? Not gonna get a first and already have six seconds in the next two years. Another good but not elite prospect when everyone recognizes we have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league but lack elite talent? I'd rather hold onto the players, have faith in our scouting and development, and sell high on one of the really valuable assets in a couple years. You'll get a much better return on a JBD who panned out than you would for Wolanin this year.

Also have Demelo, Tierney and Pageau as tradable pieces worth something around a 2nd each.

Hainsey, Boro and Ennis might fetch a late 6th or 7th rounder too.

Regarding the first group, I'm really hoping we can keep two of the three - Demelo and one of the centers. None of them are old or terribly expensive, they'll still be useful players for a while. I'm just not that stoked on adding more second rounders and mid-tier prospects; we need to keep some good veterans to build the core around, and I love all three of those players.

Seems like wishful thinking on the latter group. If we can dump one of those guys for something I'd take that as a win.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's an interesting idea as you're right, Wolanin with a good year could have the most value of any of them right now, but I'd rather have the bird in hand. Trading away an established NHLer and keeping the prospects just slows down the rebuild. I really think if we do this right we only need one more year of full tank, and could be a serious contender by '22/23.

And then when you consider how many good picks and prospects we have right now, what would we be trading Wolanin for? Not gonna get a first and already have six seconds in the next two years. Another good but not elite prospect when everyone recognizes we have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league but lack elite talent? I'd rather hold onto the players, have faith in our scouting and development, and sell high on one of the really valuable assets in a couple years. You'll get a much better return on a JBD who panned out than you would for Wolanin this year.



Regarding the first group, I'm really hoping we can keep two of the three - Demelo and one of the centers. None of them are old or terribly expensive, they'll still be useful players for a while. I'm just not that stoked on adding more second rounders and mid-tier prospects; we need to keep some good veterans to build the core around, and I love all three of those players.

Seems like wishful thinking on the latter group. If we can dump one of those guys for something I'd take that as a win.

If we keep it short term on the first three, I wouldn't mind keeping them around but I don't think that'll be an option for anyone other than maybe Demelo. I think selling high on Tierney is the way to go no doubt imo. Demelo is fine too, but he'll be surpassed quickly with so much of our high end prospects on D. I also don't think short term will be an option for Pageau and don't really want anything beyond 2 or 3 years.

No matter what, we need to keep that money flexible and short term on role players so we can try to pay the stars when the time comes. In my mind, anyone who isn't a core piece and isn't willing to take short term, needs to be sent packing for the preservation of the small budget available, because imo that was a big reason they had to rebuild in the first place was all the money locked up in a subpar support group.

For the latter group, you're probably right, but Hainsey and Boro could be solid depth for a playoff team at the deadline worth a late pick. Ennis probably doesnt get you anything unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat and has a good season.

 

[HSF]

Like others have mentioned Boro is fine with used properly

If they use him as a 6/7 guy who can provide physical play especially for a somewhat soft roster then keep him and use him

 

[MatchesMalone]

If we keep it short term on the first three, I wouldn't mind keeping them around but I don't think that'll be an option for anyone other than maybe Demelo. I think selling high on Tierney is the way to go no doubt imo. Demelo is fine too, but he'll be surpassed quickly with so much of our high end prospects on D. I also don't think short term will be an option for Pageau and don't really want anything beyond 2 or 3 years.

No matter what, we need to keep that money flexible and short term on role players so we can try to pay the stars when the time comes. In my mind, anyone who isn't a core piece and isn't willing to take short term, needs to be sent packing for the preservation of the small budget available, because imo that was a big reason they had to rebuild in the first place was all the money locked up in a subpar support group.

For the latter group, you're probably right, but Hainsey and Boro could be solid depth for a playoff team at the deadline worth a late pick. Ennis probably doesnt get you anything unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat and has a good season.

Yeah you raise some points. Looking at Zajac, Henrique, Bozak, we're looking at somewhere in the five million range for Tierney. Probably not a whole lot less for Pageau. Maybe 4.25? I just love both of these players, so I'm really hoping we can lock up one at a reasonable number.

I was gonna say, weren't you just the one saying we shouldn't trust that our prospects will develop? And now you're saying we should trade away established, really solid NHLers to save money for those prospects?

I'm pretty committed to this idea that if everything goes according to plan, '22/23 will be the first year our window opens in earnest. Besides Chabot, Tkachuk, White and maybe Batherson, none of the key young players are gonna need big contracts until the end of '23, when Byfield/Lafreniere ( ) is up. If we can sign one of Pageau/Tierney for three years - they'll still be 29/30 by the end of that, still good for one more big contract for them - then we'll have them through our first run in 2023, and then they'll be off the books for the impending superstars ( ).

That first real run or two after the rebuild is so import because you've still got some of these top young players on entry or cheap contracts. So would be so clutch to have a Tierney or Pageau as third line center, even if they're making four or five million. Tierney in particular would be a very serviceable second line / insulation center for the first couple years of trying to establish ourselves as a playoff team (2020/21 and '21/22), and then would be an elite third line center for our first serious run in '22/23.

I mainly have Tierney in mind for that scenario, but I wonder if Pageau might even be a legit option for a long-term third line center? Are there contenders that pay third line centers 4.25? Seems doubtful.

 

[Sweatred]

I agree. When I suggest sell high I mean a first or top prospect. Maybe we have to take a 2022-23 type first or something.

However, if Wolanin (or whoever) gets to the point they are commanding $5-8+ they probably would get that type offer from a team needing a young puck mover/QB.

It's an interesting idea as you're right, Wolanin with a good year could have the most value of any of them right now, but I'd rather have the bird in hand. Trading away an established NHLer and keeping the prospects just slows down the rebuild. I really think if we do this right we only need one more year of full tank, and could be a serious contender by '22/23.

And then when you consider how many good picks and prospects we have right now, what would we be trading Wolanin for? Not gonna get a first and already have six seconds in the next two years. Another good but not elite prospect when everyone recognizes we have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league but lack elite talent? I'd rather hold onto the players, have faith in our scouting and development, and sell high on one of the really valuable assets in a couple years. You'll get a much better return on a JBD who panned out than you would for Wolanin this year.



Regarding the first group, I'm really hoping we can keep two of the three - Demelo and one of the centers. None of them are old or terribly expensive, they'll still be useful players for a while. I'm just not that stoked on adding more second rounders and mid-tier prospects; we need to keep some good veterans to build the core around, and I love all three of those players.

Seems like wishful thinking on the latter group. If we can dump one of those guys for something I'd take that as a win.

 

[JD1]

Yeah you raise some points. Looking at Zajac, Henrique, Bozak, we're looking at somewhere in the five million range for Tierney. Probably not a whole lot less for Pageau. Maybe 4.25? I just love both of these players, so I'm really hoping we can lock up one at a reasonable number.

I was gonna say, weren't you just the one saying we shouldn't trust that our prospects will develop? And now you're saying we should trade away established, really solid NHLers to save money for those prospects?

I'm pretty committed to this idea that if everything goes according to plan, '22/23 will be the first year our window opens in earnest. Besides Chabot, Tkachuk, White and maybe Batherson, none of the key young players are gonna need big contracts until the end of '23, when Byfield/Lafreniere ( ) is up. If we can sign one of Pageau/Tierney for three years - they'll still be 29/30 by the end of that, still good for one more big contract for them - then we'll have them through our first run in 2023, and then they'll be off the books for the impending superstars ( ).

That first real run or two after the rebuild is so import because you've still got some of these top young players on entry or cheap contracts. So would be so clutch to have a Tierney or Pageau as third line center, even if they're making four or five million. Tierney in particular would be a very serviceable second line / insulation center for the first couple years of trying to establish ourselves as a playoff team (2020/21 and '21/22), and then would be an elite third line center for our first serious run in '22/23.

I mainly have Tierney in mind for that scenario, but I wonder if Pageau might even be a legit option for a long-term third line center? Are there contenders that pay third line centers 4.25? Seems doubtful.

I think we are really starting to see an increased allocation of money to star players in their RFA years which is essentially going to marginalize everyone else including UFAs and younger non stars. Look at the problem Toronto has with 5 or 6 guys locked up earning almost 50 between them. Look at the list of high profile guys coming off ELCs that are not signed. If the going rate for these types is 7 or 8 or 9 aav it isn't going to leave a lot of money. I think "cores" are going to shrink and teams are going to have a dozen guys they consider movable parts. Look at a guy like Patrick Maroon. 31. Can still play. Coming off a cup win where he made a contribution. All he could get was a 900k 1 year deal. Two years ago he would have got a 2 year 5M type deal in similar circumstances. So that leaves players like the Pageaus and the Tierneys as short term contract guys moving from team to team with less term and less money and teams hoping to catch magic with their supporting cast in any given year