Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 19)

[Peptic Balcers]

Would anyone else trade Brannstrom for Dobson 1 for 1?

No way.

 

[Samsquanch]

I think were sleeping on Brannstrom. The kid still doesnt turn 20 until September, and yet it feels like people are already getting impatient with him.

I think we have enough two way dmen coming up the ranks. JBD, Thompson, Jaros and Lajoie should *hopefully* fill that role adequately for us.

It would be a mistake for us to depend entirely on Chabot like we did with Karlsson after he hit his prime. If he gets neutralized, or if hes focused on shutting someone down himself, we need another weapon from the blue line to fill that gap for us.

This team is going to have to score by committee to ever really have a chance, and its going to need two d pairings that have each have a great puck mover to do that.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Would anyone else trade Brannstrom for Dobson 1 for 1?

Is Dobson on the market?

One scenario I could see happening with Brannstrom is that the Sens could possibly trade Brannstrom at the 2020 draft and try to acquire a pick to draft Jamie Drysdale. Would you trade Brannstrom at the draft to take Drysdale or any other d man that is draft eligible?

 

[RAFI BOMB]

I think were sleeping on Brannstrom. The kid still doesnt turn 20 until September, and yet it feels like people are already getting impatient with him.

I think we have enough two way dmen coming up the ranks. JBD, Thompson, Jaros and Lajoie should *hopefully* fill that role adequately for us.

It would be a mistake for us to depend entirely on Chabot like we did with Karlsson after he hit his prime. If he gets neutralized, or if hes focused on shutting someone down himself, we need another weapon from the blue line to fill that gap for us.

This team is going to have to score by committee to ever really have a chance, and its going to need two d pairings that have each have a great puck mover to do that.

Expectations are high because he was traded for Mark Stone. Stone was clearly worth significantly more than Brannstrom and a 2nd. The fact that that was all Dorion got and the type of comments Dorion made about Brannstrom has created a lot of expectations among the fan base. It is unlikely that Brannstrom will live up to those expectations. He could still be a good player though.

 

[Sensators]

For what its worth I went to the sens game in calgary and i watched brannstrom quite closely. He really had his head on a swivel. I thought by his body language i could tell how engaged he was. Constantly scanning the ice at a rapid rate. I really believe he will be a fan favorite, you can tell he's a tryhard which i personally enjoy a lot.

I wish we didnt have to trade stone for him and i'm not going to say good/bad trade. I have enjoyed brannstrom from what i've seen and i look forward to seeing him next year.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Expectations are high because he was traded for Mark Stone. Stone was clearly worth significantly more than Brannstrom and a 2nd. The fact that that was all Dorion got and the type of comments Dorion made about Brannstrom has created a lot of expectations among the fan base. It is unlikely that Brannstrom will live up to those expectations. He could still be a good player though.

Man, come on. Give people some credit. It sounds like you're basically saying "some people are very high on Brannström only because of Dorion's comments about him and who he was traded for". People have different opinions on prospects than you do, that doesn't mean they're just blindly believing what Dorion tells them.

Some of us have been really high on this kid since long before he was a Sen. For myself, I remember watching him at each of the last two World Juniors and both times thinking he looked like a special player and prospect.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Just for fun, I decided to look up my posts on Brannström from the World Juniors, from another forum:

"Surprising Sweden came so close to a gold when almost all of their top players under-performed.... the only top player who played up to and exceeded expectations all tournament was Rasmus Dahlin. Good God that kid is something special. Wow. Actually his D partner for much of the tournament, Erik Brannstrom, I thought was really good throughout too." - Jan 6, 2018.

"Despite the disappointing finish for Sweden, in their previous two games I watched, against USA and Finland, Brannstrom and Boqvist looked fantastic. Very different types of offensive defensemen, both are grade-A prospects who are going to be very good players in the NHL. Brannstrom slows things down, controls the tempo, stays calm in the hot-zone and has an elite breakout pass, and can walk the blue-line like a tightrope-walker. Boqvist is more of a pure puck-rushing offensive dynamo." - Jan 3, 2019.

"That brings me to the awards race. For best defenseman, before the tournament, I thought it would be a two-horse race between Quinn Hughes and Erik Brannstrom. While Brannstrom was as-advertised in the preliminary round, he was shut down and frustrated by the Swiss as the Swedes were eliminated in the quarters, so we can count him out." -Jan 5, 2019.

 

[Sweatred]

Is Dobson on the market?

One scenario I could see happening with Brannstrom is that the Sens could possibly trade Brannstrom at the 2020 draft and try to acquire a pick to draft Jamie Drysdale. Would you trade Brannstrom at the draft to take Drysdale or any other d man that is draft eligible?

I think the Sens would trade Chabot before Braanstrom. Chabot is closer to receiving $8-10 mill/year and probably returns double what EB would in a trade. By 2020 EB may be able to replace TC on the ice. Even if EB was 80% as effective on the ice if Chabot returned 200% more in prospect/pick capital I can’t see the team shying away from saving $10 million.

Who knows, maybe EB dazzles and PD can generate similar trade interest.

 

[R2010]

Would drive him to the airport and pay for his bags

Absolutely. He's a future top pairing all-situation D-man.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Man, come on. Give people some credit. It sounds like you're basically saying "some people are very high on Brannström only because of Dorion's comments about him and who he was traded for". People have different opinions on prospects than you do, that doesn't mean they're just blindly believing what Dorion tells them.

Some of us have been really high on this kid since long before he was a Sen. For myself, I remember watching him at each of the last two World Juniors and both times thinking he looked like a special player and prospect.

You seem to be overreacting. I think you misinterpreted my post. Brannstrom has always been a good prospect, this wasn't a criticism of him as a prospect or player, it was an assessment of his value in relative terms. A signed Mark Stone was simply worth more than Brannstrom and a 2nd. Both subjectively by this fanbase and arguably objectively around the league Mark Stone was highly coveted and one of the top players in the league. Dorion failed to get sufficient value in return for trading Stone. What that means is that instead of Brannstrom being evaluated on his own merits, his performance and development will be evaluated in relation to what we gave up. With Dorion's comments post trade it just creates more pressure and higher expectations on Brannstrom. If Brannstrom ends up as anything less than a legitimate top pairing d man then it will be blatantly clear that we got robbed in the trade.

If Dorion had gotten more in return then maybe we wouldn't have this issue. Also his comments post trade didn't help either. Being realistic I think it is a bit much to expect Brannstrom to be a top pairing guy. He has a lot left to prove in that regard so tempered expectations seem reasonable. I also think that a number of fans haven't necessarily been evaluating him realistically. I think that seeing the success of Karlsson has created some assumptions around Brannstrom and his upside that may not be true. Brannstrom isn't Karlsson and it is unlikely he veer becomes something comparable. If he ends up as a solid 2nd pairing d man, which seems like a reasonable set of expectations, he simply will not have lived up to the expectations to justify him being the central piece of the Stone trade.

 

[BondraTime]

Absolutely. He's a future top pairing all-situation D-man.

I’ve seen at least 50 of his games live the past 3 seasons, he is as good offensively as he is defensively, which is downright scary.

He never makes the wrong play, he anticipates what is going to happen and what he needs to do 3 seconds before the play happens. His hockey sense is off the charts. He doesn’t have the hands or highlight reel style of play thy Brannstromm does (Branstromm also has incredibly high level hockey sense, he is an incredible prospect) but he has the effortless way of playing combining his size, skating and hockey sense where it looks as though he’s just going through the motions, but is always in the right side of the puck and always making the correct play.

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least that he wins a Norris. 40-50 point 25+ minute #1PP, PK and top pairing D man.

He’s as close to a Pietrangelo clone as you can get.

I’ve been high in Dobson since his BC season prior to heading over to Red Bull academy, and every single year her has outperformed and gotten better. He is the smartest and best D I have seen in the Q in counting Chabot who is the only guy in Dobson’s territory.

I am obviously higher on him than pretty much everyone, which is more than fair.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

I think the Sens would trade Chabot before Braanstrom. Chabot is closer to receiving $8-10 mill/year and probably returns double what EB would in a trade. By 2020 EB may be able to replace TC on the ice. Even if EB was 80% as effective on the ice if Chabot returned 200% more in prospect/pick capital I can’t see the team shying away from saving $10 million.

Who knows, maybe EB dazzles and PD can generate similar trade interest.

I don't think Melnyk or Dorion could justify trading Chabot. Firstly, they have already damage their reputation with the fanbase enough. Secondly, there would be no way they could spin it from a PR standpoint. They can't make the rebuild argument because they did that already and Chabot is way too young for that to be a justifiable argument. They also can't argue it is about money or cap space because they are at the cap floor and their actual salaries is almost $20 million below the cap floor.

I wouldn't put it past Melnyk to try but I also doubt that scenario would happen. The league is likely closely monitoring the Senators and the financial situation of both the organization and Melnyk. Melnyk is likely being evaluated as an owner. The league doesn't want to have teams grossly mismanaged and any rumor of Chabot being traded, especially for compensation reasons and given the context of the Sens currently, would be an indication to the league that they need to step in and take the franchise back from an owner who is incapable of running one.

 

[Sweatred]

I don't think Melnyk or Dorion could justify trading Chabot. Firstly, they have already damage their reputation with the fanbase enough. Secondly, there would be no way they could spin it from a PR standpoint. They can't make the rebuild argument because they did that already and Chabot is way too young for that to be a justifiable argument. They also can't argue it is about money or cap space because they are at the cap floor and their actual salaries is almost $20 million below the cap floor.

I wouldn't put it past Melnyk to try but I also doubt that scenario would happen. The league is likely closely monitoring the Senators and the financial situation of both the organization and Melnyk. Melnyk is likely being evaluated as an owner. The league doesn't want to have teams grossly mismanaged and any rumor of Chabot being traded, especially for compensation reasons and given the context of the Sens currently, would be an indication to the league that they need to step in and take the franchise back from an owner who is incapable of running one.

Generally I agree. I just can’t see the league forcing an owner out who is hitting the floor. They could change the rules to limit circumvention (on both ends).

Let’s say EB and TC both put up similar years. Sens meet floor by signing a FA or salary increases to current roster. I don’t think the league could question them for trading Tc vs EB. The fans would - and that would be part of the decision, but the sens are free to make trades within the CBA structure. No teams operates on a “you must keep this player” model. Oilers traded Gretzky, McDavid May leave too.

 

[HSF]

the sens will sign chabot and chucky no problem as they have already cleared a ton of money and they need to spend just to stay around the cap floor

The problem is and where the lack of trust is when it comes to signing more players to get to a level at the cap where we can be a competitive team.

Signing Chabot and Chucky isnt anywhere close to enough to be a competitive team

So the whole naarative that if the sens sign chabot then the fans will start to be happy is probably not true. We need to see more

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Generally I agree. I just can’t see the league forcing an owner out who is hitting the floor. They could change the rules to limit circumvention (on both ends).

Let’s say EB and TC both put up similar years. Sens meet floor by signing a FA or salary increases to current roster. I don’t think the league could question them for trading Tc vs EB. The fans would - and that would be part of the decision, but the sens are free to make trades within the CBA structure. No teams operates on a “you must keep this player” model. Oilers traded Gretzky, McDavid May leave too.

Hopefully they close the loophole in the next CBA and don't allow teams like the Senators to exploit it by circumventing the cap so hard. They should have to genuinely compete like any other franchise.

the sens will sign chabot and chucky no problem as they have already cleared a ton of money and they need to spend just to stay around the cap floor

The problem is and where the lack of trust is when it comes to signing more players to get to a level at the cap where we can be a competitive team.

Signing Chabot and Chucky isnt anywhere close to enough to be a competitive team

So the whole naarative that if the sens sign chabot then the fans will start to be happy is probably not true. We need to see more

I doubt anyone is concerned about the AAv with these guys. That's not going to be the problem. It''ll be the 10-20 mil in year one bonuses for Chabot that we need to see if they have the cash for.

 

[R2010]

I’ve seen at least 50 of his games live the past 3 seasons, he is as good offensively as he is defensively, which is downright scary.

He never makes the wrong play, he anticipates what is going to happen and what he needs to do 3 seconds before the play happens. His hockey sense is off the charts. He doesn’t have the hands or highlight reel style of play thy Brannstromm does (Branstromm also has incredibly high level hockey sense, he is an incredible prospect) but he has the effortless way of playing combining his size, skating and hockey sense where it looks as though he’s just going through the motions, but is always in the right side of the puck and always making the correct play.

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least that he wins a Norris. 40-50 point 25+ minute #1PP, PK and top pairing D man.

He’s as close to a Pietrangelo clone as you can get.

I’ve been high in Dobson since his BC season prior to heading over to Red Bull academy, and every single year her has outperformed and gotten better. He is the smartest and best D I have seen in the Q in counting Chabot who is the only guy in Dobson’s territory.

I am obviously higher on him than pretty much everyone, which is more than fair.

You've definitely seen a lot more of him than most people (And probably a lot of scouts) so this is certainly a big endorsement of his style of play. I like Brannstrom too of course but as you said Dobson's trajectory each year has been pretty incredible. It is really too bad the sens couldn't have gotten a second top 10 pick that year to get him (if indeed as rumoured they liked him) considering they dealt away the likes of Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, Duchene, Dzingel etc...

 

[branch]

I’ve seen at least 50 of his games live the past 3 seasons, he is as good offensively as he is defensively, which is downright scary.

He never makes the wrong play, he anticipates what is going to happen and what he needs to do 3 seconds before the play happens. His hockey sense is off the charts. He doesn’t have the hands or highlight reel style of play thy Brannstromm does (Branstromm also has incredibly high level hockey sense, he is an incredible prospect) but he has the effortless way of playing combining his size, skating and hockey sense where it looks as though he’s just going through the motions, but is always in the right side of the puck and always making the correct play.

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least that he wins a Norris. 40-50 point 25+ minute #1PP, PK and top pairing D man.

He’s as close to a Pietrangelo clone as you can get.

I’ve been high in Dobson since his BC season prior to heading over to Red Bull academy, and every single year her has outperformed and gotten better. He is the smartest and best D I have seen in the Q in counting Chabot who is the only guy in Dobson’s territory.

I am obviously higher on him than pretty much everyone, which is more than fair.

I can't believe Edmonton took Evan Bouchard over him. That was unreal.

 

[MatchesMalone]

You seem to be overreacting. I think you misinterpreted my post. Brannstrom has always been a good prospect, this wasn't a criticism of him as a prospect or player, it was an assessment of his value in relative terms. A signed Mark Stone was simply worth more than Brannstrom and a 2nd. Both subjectively by this fanbase and arguably objectively around the league Mark Stone was highly coveted and one of the top players in the league. Dorion failed to get sufficient value in return for trading Stone. What that means is that instead of Brannstrom being evaluated on his own merits, his performance and development will be evaluated in relation to what we gave up. With Dorion's comments post trade it just creates more pressure and higher expectations on Brannstrom. If Brannstrom ends up as anything less than a legitimate top pairing d man then it will be blatantly clear that we got robbed in the trade.

If Dorion had gotten more in return then maybe we wouldn't have this issue. Also his comments post trade didn't help either. Being realistic I think it is a bit much to expect Brannstrom to be a top pairing guy. He has a lot left to prove in that regard so tempered expectations seem reasonable. I also think that a number of fans haven't necessarily been evaluating him realistically. I think that seeing the success of Karlsson has created some assumptions around Brannstrom and his upside that may not be true. Brannstrom isn't Karlsson and it is unlikely he veer becomes something comparable. If he ends up as a solid 2nd pairing d man, which seems like a reasonable set of expectations, he simply will not have lived up to the expectations to justify him being the central piece of the Stone trade.

Ok, I get it, you're the arbiter of all things realistic and reasonable. That still doesn't make your opinion objective fact. Just because you say something is or isn't realistic doesn't make it so.

I'd say there is a perfectly realistic chance that Brännström develops into a consistent 50+ point per year, 23-26 minute per game defenseman. I'm not gonna try to put a percentage to it, but nobody should be surprised, and despite your claims, I'm betting you wouldn't be all that surprised either.

Again, the Stone trade and expectations set by Karlsson have nothing to do with it, since I have thought this about Brännström since long before he was a Sen, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Ok, I get it, you're the arbiter of all things realistic and reasonable. That still doesn't make your opinion objective fact. Just because you say something is or isn't realistic doesn't make it so.

I'd say there is a perfectly realistic chance that Brännström develops into a consistent 50+ point per year, 23-26 minute per game defenseman. I'm not gonna try to put a percentage to it, but nobody should be surprised, and despite your claims, I'm betting you wouldn't be all that surprised either.

Again, the Stone trade and expectations set by Karlsson have nothing to do with it, since I have thought this about Brännström since long before he was a Sen, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

That doesn't seem very realistic at all. In 2018-2019 13 d men had 50+ pts. In 2017-2018 19 d men had 50+ pts. In 2016-2017 9 d men had 50+ pts. In 2015-2016 12 d men had 50+ pts. So for Brannstrom to hit 50+ points he would be one of the top 13 offensive d men in the league.

Over that same time frame the only d men to hit 50+ points consistently were Burns, Letang, and Josi. A few others like Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Giordano, Klingberg, and Hedman hit 50+ points in 3 of the last 4 seasons.

So your claim of Brannstrom putting up 50+ points a season consistently would put him in the same group as either Burns, Letang and Josi or Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Giordano, Klingberg and Hedman. I would say that that is an unrealistic expectation. Sure it is possible that it could happen but it isn't very realistic to expect it to happen.

 

[MatchesMalone]

That doesn't seem very realistic at all. In 2018-2019 13 d men had 50+ pts. In 2017-2018 19 d men had 50+ pts. In 2016-2017 9 d men had 50+ pts. In 2015-2016 12 d men had 50+ pts. So for Brannstrom to hit 50+ points he would be one of the top 13 offensive d men in the league.

Over that same time frame the only d men to hit 50+ points consistently were Burns, Letang, and Josi. A few others like Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Giordano, Klingberg, and Hedman hit 50+ points in 3 of the last 4 seasons.

So your claim of Brannstrom putting up 50+ points a season consistently would put him in the same group as either Burns, Letang and Josi or Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Giordano, Klingberg and Hedman. I would say that that is an unrealistic expectation. Sure it is possible that it could happen but it isn't very realistic to expect it to happen.

If you say so.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

That doesn't seem very realistic at all. In 2018-2019 13 d men had 50+ pts. In 2017-2018 19 d men had 50+ pts. In 2016-2017 9 d men had 50+ pts. In 2015-2016 12 d men had 50+ pts. So for Brannstrom to hit 50+ points he would be one of the top 13 offensive d men in the league.

Over that same time frame the only d men to hit 50+ points consistently were Burns, Letang, and Josi. A few others like Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Giordano, Klingberg, and Hedman hit 50+ points in 3 of the last 4 seasons.

So your claim of Brannstrom putting up 50+ points a season consistently would put him in the same group as either Burns, Letang and Josi or Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Giordano, Klingberg and Hedman. I would say that that is an unrealistic expectation. Sure it is possible that it could happen but it isn't very realistic to expect it to happen.

I know Brannstrom already gets way too many comparisons to EK due to being a young, "small", stud offensive defenceman from Sweden who got drafted too late at 15th overall. But Brannstrom is following closely to EK's path to stardom. It doesn't mean he's going to be as good as him, but you definitely can't call people unrealistic for saying he'll be a 50 point guy. In his D+3 year, EK put up 45 points in 75 games. I don't think Brann plays 75 games this year, but I expect he'll have a very similar P/GP. Just over 0.5 points per game. And it should only go up from there. Depends on the forward group too, which isn't nearly good enough for both Chabot and Brannstrom to be 50 point guys in the same year.

 

[MatchesMalone]

That doesn't seem very realistic at all. In 2018-2019 13 d men had 50+ pts. In 2017-2018 19 d men had 50+ pts. In 2016-2017 9 d men had 50+ pts. In 2015-2016 12 d men had 50+ pts. So for Brannstrom to hit 50+ points he would be one of the top 13 offensive d men in the league.

Over that same time frame the only d men to hit 50+ points consistently were Burns, Letang, and Josi. A few others like Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Giordano, Klingberg, and Hedman hit 50+ points in 3 of the last 4 seasons.

So your claim of Brannstrom putting up 50+ points a season consistently would put him in the same group as either Burns, Letang and Josi or Karlsson, Subban, Doughty, Giordano, Klingberg and Hedman. I would say that that is an unrealistic expectation. Sure it is possible that it could happen but it isn't very realistic to expect it to happen.

K was just a rough range. And I meant 50+ in his prime. Doesn't mean he'd score 50 every year. In addition to the list you made, I'd include Tyson Barrie, Tory Krug, Ryan Suter, John Carlson, P.K. Subban, Dennis Wideman, Mark Streit, Byfuglien, Morgan Rielly. Oh also Seth Jones and Matt Dumba paced 50+ in their last two seasons, and Gostisbehere has two of his four seasons.

I'm not exactly talking about Hall of Famers or even Norris candidates, just elite offensive defensemen. Is it highly likely? Maybe not. But realistic? Yes.

Before you say "well you're just changing your argument now", the 50+ point number was just off the top of my head. My main point is just that his likely upside is a hell of a lot higher than a second pair defenseman.

 

[Clayonator]

Boro to the Flames please. He just seems to fit on Calgary Edmonton or Vancouver for some reason. Maybe Anaheim.

 

[Masked]

I can't believe Edmonton took Evan Bouchard over him. That was unreal.

Really? With Edmonton's history I'd be surprised if they hadn't.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Boro to the Flames please. He just seems to fit on Calgary Edmonton or Vancouver for some reason. Maybe Anaheim.

I wonder if we move on from Borowiecki this season. It's possible that he won't get many minutes and he's a pending UFA. Unless we're going with an arrangement where we consistently give him 1 year six figure deals to be our 7th-8th D who is good in the room, it might be in both sides best interest to move on. The Senators probably get a late pick for him, and Borowiecki would presumably go somewhere that he might get a shot in the top 6. I assume it would be to a team that has had injuries hurt their depth chart and create an opening that Boro' could try to take advantage of.

Boro's value has gone down since he fights less and disrupts the game less. I am not saying he should fight, or that he's wrong to prioritize his health, only that he brings less since he's not doing it. He benefited from Boucher's proclivity to play 7 defenseman. It allowed more defenseman to come into the lineup on a regular basis. Unless DJ Smith has the same philosophy as Boucher, it's going to be more difficult for Borowiecki to play on the regular as our defense develops going forward.

Here's our defense in terms of what should be close to sure things to make the NHL based on their performances last season. (Not pairings, just organizing them)

Chabot-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Jaros
Wolanin-Demelo

Considering the Senators roll with 22 roster players and not 23, that means that there is probably one final spot. Fighting for that spot would be Borowiecki, Brannstrom, Ebert, Englund, and Lajoie. I'm not suggesting the team is going to hand Jaros or Wolanin their spots, but it is pretty clear based on games at the end of the last season that those two are a tier above the other prospects in our system.

The above makes it look to me like Borowiecki could be on his way out. Maybe his leadership is valuable enough that we decide to carry 23 players solely for keeping him in the room, but we've moved on from players pegged as leaders before. We traded Zack Smith a few weeks ago and he was always hyped as a strong locker room guy. So I think if a chance comes up for us to get some value in a trade for Boro' while also giving him the opportunity to go somehwere that he'll play, we'll take that trade.