Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 19)

[Sweatred]

Gonna be some high quality dumpster diving with the UFA’s.

I think we are really starting to see an increased allocation of money to star players in their RFA years which is essentially going to marginalize everyone else including UFAs and younger non stars. Look at the problem Toronto has with 5 or 6 guys locked up earning almost 50 between them. Look at the list of high profile guys coming off ELCs that are not signed. If the going rate for these types is 7 or 8 or 9 aav it isn't going to leave a lot of money. I think "cores" are going to shrink and teams are going to have a dozen guys they consider movable parts. Look at a guy like Patrick Maroon. 31. Can still play. Coming off a cup win where he made a contribution. All he could get was a 900k 1 year deal. Two years ago he would have got a 2 year 5M type deal in similar circumstances. So that leaves players like the Pageaus and the Tierneys as short term contract guys moving from team to team with less term and less money and teams hoping to catch magic with their supporting cast in any given year

 

[JD1]

Gonna be some high quality dumpster diving with the UFA’s.

Ya I think so. And I think it's a good thing personally

I'd rather see a league where the money is going to the Marners and the Whites and Tkachuks than one where it is going to the Lucics, and the Okposos and the Ladds.

I think we'll see the Lucic's of the world getting 2 years at 4 aav type deals instead of 6 by 6 type deals.

I think the league would be better with the creme de la creme of the AHL in the NHL instead of 50 guys playing nhl hockey because they are on good money one way deals.

 

[JD1]

Actually look at Lucic....does anyone think he could get anything more than a PTO if he was a ufa right now? I suspect if he currently had no contract, his nhl career would be done right now

 

[Ice-Tray]

As I was saying earlier, I think it’s a good thing if the big money starts being paid to stars in their prime years, instead of rewarding declining players with big money deals, after their prime’s are over.

Better chance that money is well spent on prime years, and those contracts are actually moveable if the player is in those years, and showed signs of being worth the dollars at some point.

Albatross contracts are such an unbelievable waste of money, it hurts my sensibilities as a non millionaire looking at borderline NHLers making 6 million a year to be hated by fans.

 

[Cosmix]

As I was saying earlier, I think it’s a good thing if the big money starts being paid to stars in their prime years, instead of rewarding declining players with big money deals, after their prime’s are over.

Better chance that money is well spent on prime years, and those contracts are actually moveable if the player is in those years, and showed signs of being worth the dollars at some point.

Albatross contracts are such an unbelievable waste of money, it hurts my sensibilities as a non millionaire looking at borderline NHLers making 6 million a year to be hated by fans.

The blame for paying high salaries to UFAs should be targeted at the teams and GMs who pay high salaries with long terms for UFAs. Those teams and GMs took high risk on when giving out such long term contracts for older players who were going to start declining.

I agree that paying higher salaries for RFAs may become the new norm given the threat of offer sheets. Some of those offer sheets might be risky too both for the team submitting the offer sheet and the team deciding to match it. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I suspect the richer large market teams will do better than the poorer small market teams unless and until the league addresses the issues in the CBA.

 

[MatchesMalone]

I think we are really starting to see an increased allocation of money to star players in their RFA years which is essentially going to marginalize everyone else including UFAs and younger non stars. Look at the problem Toronto has with 5 or 6 guys locked up earning almost 50 between them. Look at the list of high profile guys coming off ELCs that are not signed. If the going rate for these types is 7 or 8 or 9 aav it isn't going to leave a lot of money. I think "cores" are going to shrink and teams are going to have a dozen guys they consider movable parts. Look at a guy like Patrick Maroon. 31. Can still play. Coming off a cup win where he made a contribution. All he could get was a 900k 1 year deal. Two years ago he would have got a 2 year 5M type deal in similar circumstances. So that leaves players like the Pageaus and the Tierneys as short term contract guys moving from team to team with less term and less money and teams hoping to catch magic with their supporting cast in any given year

There's something to what you're saying for sure. The Maroon contract was strangely low. 1.2 for Brassard doesnt seem too terrible, but again only one year. Same goes for Shattenkirk, the money isn't that bad, but just one year.

But Tierney and Pageau are completely different situations, still 25 and 26, with a few prime years left to give. So if I'm understanding you correctly, your point is that they will be insisting on long-term contracts, for fear that by the time they're 30 they'll be forced into cheap, short term contracts.

Ok, well for Tierney, he'd only be 29 by the end of a three year contract, so should still be fine to get one more big contract, but I'm also sure that he and his agent can understand the situation, that he'll be a top six / insulation center for the first two years, but by that '22/23 season - assuming Brown/White pan out and/or we draft a center top five next year - he'll be third line center in his contract year.

Meaning his numbers will decline in that third season, so he'd be better off to just take two years and become UFA at 28 when he's still playing a more prominent role. Fair enough, I'd be satisfied with two years, but what about something like this, we offer two years at 5 per, with the option of a third year at 6, which would bring the cap hit up to 5.33? Or if he has a really strong year this year, maybe 5+5.5=5.25 or 5+5.5+6=5.5.

If we decide Tierney is too expensive, then yeah, a three year contract for Pageau is problematic, because that would put him over 30 by the end of it, and is gonna make it hard for him to find another good contract.

Maybe I shouldn't have been lumping them together like that. Their situations seem kinda similar on the surface, but with a closer look they're actually very different. I think it would be worthwhile to give Pageau five or six years, but I wouldn't go much higher than Cody Eakin's 3.85.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Oy. After looking at those Bozak and Henrique contracts again. 5 or 5.25 might be wishful thinking if Tierney has another season upwards of 50 points.

But this kind of reinforces what a smart move the Anisimov addition was. He's gonna steal good minutes from Pageau and Tierney. Everything will be so spread out, nobody will be able to put up big numbers, making Pageau and/or Tierney more signable.

 

[JD1]

There's something to what you're saying for sure. The Maroon contract was strangely low. 1.2 for Brassard doesnt seem too terrible, but again only one year. Same goes for Shattenkirk, the money isn't that bad, but just one year.

But Tierney and Pageau are completely different situations, still 25 and 26, with a few prime years left to give. So if I'm understanding you correctly, your point is that they will be insisting on long-term contracts, for fear that by the time they're 30 they'll be forced into cheap, short term contracts.

Ok, well for Tierney, he'd only be 29 by the end of a three year contract, so should still be fine to get one more big contract, but I'm also sure that he and his agent can understand the situation, that he'll be a top six / insulation center for the first two years, but by that '22/23 season - assuming Brown/White pan out and/or we draft a center top five next year - he'll be third line center in his contract year.

Meaning his numbers will decline in that third season, so he'd be better off to just take two years and become UFA at 28 when he's still playing a more prominent role. Fair enough, I'd be satisfied with two years, but what about something like this, we offer two years at 5 per, with the option of a third year at 6, which would bring the cap hit up to 5.33? Or if he has a really strong year this year, maybe 5+5.5=5.25 or 5+5.5+6=5.5.

If we decide Tierney is too expensive, then yeah, a three year contract for Pageau is problematic, because that would put him over 30 by the end of it, and is gonna make it hard for him to find another good contract.

Maybe I shouldn't have been lumping them together like that. Their situations seem kinda similar on the surface, but with a closer look they're actually very different. I think it would be worthwhile to give Pageau five or six years, but I wouldn't go much higher than Cody Eakin's 3.85.

What I meant was that you're going to see high profile young guys, top 6 guys, taking up increasing chunks of the cap, leaving less for everyone else. UFAs will find it harder to find deals and "cores" will shrink. Legit 3rd liners like Pageau and Tierney are likely to find less money less term on their deals and may become more interchangeable

 

[Sweatred]

This leads to my point of paying RFA type 10-15 goals scorers $ 4-5 million when you can grab a 30 year old for $1.5 to score 12.

 

[BondraTime]

This leads to my point of paying RFA type 10-15 goals scorers $ 4-5 million when you can grab a 30 year old for $1.5 to score 12.

You're paying for all of your RFA's prime years. Your RFA's are the homegrown talent every single team that wins and competes for the cup needs and has.

Signing guys to 1.5 million dollar deals to come in and replace prime RFA years doesn't make much sense.

We paid 2 x 1.65aav for Thompson off a 2 point season.

We just paid Ennis 800k after a 12 goal, 18 point season, he's only a 4th liner on the worst roster in the league.

We paid Latndresse 1.25 after he played a total of 27 games the previous 2 seasons

We paid MacArthur 3.25aav (equivalent to 4.5aav today) off an 8 goal, 20 point season (in 40 games) then a year later had to resign him a 4.65 (equivalent to 5.5 million today) x 5 deal.

You can't build a team signing guys like that to 1 year deals, and the guys that do sign cheap 1 year deals do so in order to either win a cup, or have a good year in order to get a bigger contract the next season, neither of which work for the Sens.

You can't build a team like that, it would just be a never ending cycle of bad teams and turnover.

 

[Sweatred]

You're paying for all of your RFA's prime years. Your RFA's are the homegrown talent every single team that wins and competes for the cup needs and has.

Signing guys to 1.5 million dollar deals to come in and replace prime RFA years doesn't make much sense.

We paid 2 x 1.65aav for Thompson off a 2 point season.

We just paid Ennis 800k after a 12 goal, 18 point season, he's only a 4th liner on the worst roster in the league.

We paid Latndresse 1.25 after he played a total of 27 games the previous 2 seasons

We paid MacArthur 3.25aav (equivalent to 4.5aav today) off an 8 goal, 20 point season (in 40 games) then a year later had to resign him a 4.65 (equivalent to 5.5 million today) x 5 deal.

You can't build a team signing guys like that to 1 year deals, and the guys that do sign cheap 1 year deals do so in order to either win a cup, or have a good year in order to get a bigger contract the next season, neither of which work for the Sens.

You can't build a team like that, it would just be a never ending cycle of bad teams and turnover.

I didn’t say you can build a team. For one my post was about a future changing landscape so the historical contracts you mentioned are meaningless.

What I did say is you may be able to save money to allocate to higher end resources with future UFa’s. Last year we had $3 million in Boedker, $5 in Ceci, $3 in Smith. There is probably nearly $5 million of dead money in those contracts that could have been used to turn a $4 million dollar player into a $9 million dollar player. Simply auto paying every RFA is also how you end up with boat anchors like Boedker, Smith etc (hopefully not White

 

[Qward]

I find it funny that the NHL wanted 5 year max contracts and the NHLPA refused and conceded to 7 years, 8 if they were already on the team. Now the RFAs want 5 years so they can get to UFA status faster.

 

[Sweatred]

Tierney for Poolparty after EX game 3 when Brown shows he is ready.

 

[Qward]

Tierney for Poolparty after EX game 3 when Brown shows he is ready.

I just proposed Tierney @ 50% + Nick Paul for Poolparty

 

[2CHAINZ]

I just proposed Tierney @ 50% + Nick Paul for Poolparty

We trade the way better player and we retain on him then throw in a prospect ?

 

[Qward]

We trade the way better player and we retain on him then throw in a prospect ?

It's a risk, but Poolparty could still be an amazing player. If you arent McDavid or Leon, then the Oilers have screwed up your development. Look at what Ottawa has done. Look at all the players that the Sens have drafted and developed into stars. poolparty could be one.

Tierney is not in the long term plans. Neither is Paul.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

I just proposed Tierney @ 50% + Nick Paul for Poolparty

I don't like this proposal. It seems like a massive overpayment. Nick Paul took a big step forward last season and Trent Mann mentioned he was well liked by his teammates and he seems to have chemistry with Batherson and Brown. He could still emerge as a valuable long term piece so I think we should at least see how he performs in training camp before we give any consideration to trading him.

I am in favor of trading Tierney but I dont see this as a good move from an asset management standpoint. Tierney should be able to get us a 2nd at the deadline and I value that higher than Puljujarvi.

Puljujarvi has had some meaningful surgeries and there were some questions surrounding his hockey IQ. The bust factor is high at this point. Also his refusal to play for Edmonton and demanding to get traded means that Edmonton has lost all negotiating leverage. We shouldn't be offering good deals to them, we should be lowballing them. I'd offer a 2021 3rd or Chlapik at this point. If they turned me down I would wait it out. No point in overpaying for a potential bust.

 

[Qward]

Nick Paul 24yr
56gp 4g 4a 8pts -19
.142 ppg

Jesse Puljujarvi 21yr
139gp 17g 20a 37pts -10
.266 ppg

Tierney is going to make $2,975,000
Nick Paul will make $165,000 in the minors

Poolparty will sign a low $ contract if it means he can play on another team.

Shipping out CT at 50% (1,487,500) plus Paul ($165,000) and signing Poolparty at $1,000,000 saves Melnyk $652,500 real dollars.

 

[Sweatred]

No idea how you asses poolparties medical condition.

Kinda sucks to announce a trade pending Medicals and its hard to pay much without that independent info.

He is the same age as L. Brown... still lots of prospect left in him.

 

[Sting]

Puljujarvi is too big a risk to give up an asset like Tierney for. Obviously NHL GM's feel the same otherwise he would be shipped out by now.

Bilateral hip surgery of any kind at his age could really screw up his skating and agility.

I feel like trading for him would just end up being another Filatov trade...giving up an asset for something that isn't worth it.

 

[Sweatred]

Puljujarvi is too big a risk to give up an asset like Tierney for. Obviously NHL GM's feel the same otherwise he would be shipped out by now.

Bilateral hip surgery of any kind at his age could really screw up his skating and agility.

I feel like trading for him would just end up being another Filatov trade...giving up an asset for something that isn't worth it.

The risk is definitely there... But our GM could also use a 2-3RD pick to move up 2 spots to go off the board for a player ranked 90th.

 

[BonkTastic]

I just proposed Tierney @ 50% + Nick Paul for Poolparty

Have you heard back from Ken Holland yet?

I hope you're at least getting a per diem from Dorion on this one.

 

[Qward]

Have you heard back from Ken Holland yet?

I hope you're at least getting a per diem from Dorion on this one.

We cant get a hold of Dorion to sign off. Last we heard he was kissing Melnyks ass and got sucked in.

 

[BonkTastic]

We cant get a hold of Dorion to sign off. Last we heard he was kissing Melnyks ass and got sucked in.

Damn. He must have underestimated the size of Melnyk's event horizon.

Classic mistake.

 

[Silencio]

Since the Chabot thread was locked: