Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread 49

[Habs Icing]

Fair if you want to call the Shaw trade a push or if you want to call the Weber trade a win but you cant have both as they logically are opposed.

Someone above our posts made an excellent point. MB is a good transactional GM. A terrible team building GM.

 

[Mrb1p]

How is the Shaw deal a loss - does anyone know for a fact who TT was going to select with the 2nds or is it hindsight of who was drafted?

Yes he wanted Debrincat and Girard.

Eller is also a superior player to Shaw now and before.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It sounds crazy because your idea is already cemented and youre not trying to comprehend my narative.

You know when people used to challenge heliocentric views of the solar system, thats the reaction people had.

That may be so but in this scenario, you’re the one arguing against the clear facts of the situation and claiming others are crazy for not acquiescing to your point of view which is clearly incorrect.

 

[Deebs]

Delete

 

[Runner77]

A transactional trade is different than team building. MB won the transactional trade by a country mile - as he has with almost every one..

MB as I posted elsewhere is a transactional GM - I.e an elite Assistant GM is what he really is vs team builder which is what a GM major role is

I'm all too aware of the distinction.

Winning a trade can't just be looked at in a vacuum. Yeah, he won several battles but how's that war going?

 

[Habs Icing]

A transactional trade is different than team building. MB won the transactional trade by a country mile - as he has with almost every one..

MB as I posted elsewhere is a transactional GM - I.e an elite Assistant GM is what he really is vs team builder which is what a GM major role is

If He was directed by a team building president we would be perennial contenders. MB gets great value on his trades but they're made with no vision in mind, no direction.

 

[Milhouse40]

If He was directed by a team building president we would be perennial contenders. MB gets great value on his trades but they're made with no vision in mind, no direction.

Problem is that most of Bergevin's trade were not made to build a team....they were mostly made to get rid of a player.

 

[HOPE]

Man, you're like a pitbull on a bone with this Brodin pick up.

I’m about to mute the word Brodin, it’s half his post and he posts alot.

 

[salbutera]

If He was directed by a team building president we would be perennial contenders. MB gets great value on his trades but they're made with no vision in mind, no direction.

This President position is such BS, it’s pure bureaucracy unless the ownership is a conglomerate- MLSE (Leafs), AEC (Kings), MSG (NYR), Delaware North (Bruins) etc.

Stevie Y didn’t & doesn’t report to a President of Hockey Ops he goes direct to ownership just as his replacement is now, same with Sakic, Nill etc. 6-of now-32 teams have Presidents of Hockey Ops

 

[Runner77]

I’m about to mute the word Brodin, it’s half his post and he posts alot.

But ... but ... we need his 2 goals per season. Mete actually outscored him this past season.

 

[Runner77]

This President position is such BS, it’s pure bureaucracy unless the ownership is a conglomerate- MLSE (Leafs), AEC (Kings), MSG (NYR), Delaware North (Bruins) etc.

Stevie Y didn’t & doesn’t report to a President direct to ownership just as his replacement is now, same with Sakic, Nill etc. 6-of now-32 teams have Presidents of Hockey Ops

As you are inferring -- it's not just about the position, it's the authority and powers that the position comes with. I agree that it can mean different things in different organizations, depending on the corporate set up.

Where did you get the 6 out of 32 figure? I've never looked into it but I remember hearing Pierre McGuire say it's a lot more than that.

 

[salbutera]

As you are inferring -- it's not just about the position, it's the authority and powers that the position comes with. I agree that it can mean different things in different organizations, depending on the corporate set up.

Where did you get the 6 out of 32 figure? I've never looked into it but I remember hearing Pierre McGuire say it's a lot more than that.

Just look through each teams org chart: every team has a President (like Boivin was) only 6-have Pres of Hockey Ops who either reports to a CEO/COO or ownership. Unless there’s a last minute change Ron Francis reports to ownership not a Pres of Hockey Ops.

In fact one of Tom Dundon‘s complaints was why he needs redundancy of a Pres of Hockey Ops (Waddell) and a GM (Francis) now it’s consolidated under Waddell. Pegula said the same things after Lafontaine left after serving as Pres of Hockey Ops for a couple of months of Sabres

 

[The Great Weal]

Yes he wanted Debrincat and Girard.

I'm sure he also wanted Point over Lernout. And every other great player that they passed on instead of the actual crap players he drafted. It's always excuses with him. I don't buy his bullshit anymore. There is no proof that he would have drafted those two. Liking and wanting certain players is not the same as drafting them at that position. Also Andrew Shaw was most definitely better than Lars Eller at the time of the trade.

 

[McGees]

Friedman mentioned Pens could be a landing spot for Domi because of family connections. What do you think the return could be?

 

[Runner77]

Friedman mentioned Pens could be a landing spot for Domi because of family connections. What do you think the return could be?

Pens don't have a first rounder next year so the one they own in the upcoming draft should be up for discussion. Maybe a deal built around that first rounder and say, Poulin?

 

[HuGo Sham]

I'm all too aware of the distinction.

Winning a trade can't just be looked at in a vacuum. Yeah, he won several battles but how's that war going?

this is true. He should've built the team from D and C from the beginning. He dicked around for too long with some asinine deals - drouin being a perfect example. He never addressed the backup goalie situation either. He seems to be finally learning - but they need to take the next step by finding an elite LD and some size and scoring on the wing

 

[The Great Weal]

How is the Shaw deal a loss - does anyone know for a fact who TT was going to select with the 2nds or is it hindsight of who was drafted?

Not only was the guy responsible for the worst draft record since 2008 going to draft the best player in the 2nd that is an actual star in the league, but it was GUARANTEED that he was going to draft the 2 best players of that round. I have no idea where that bullshit statement came from. Timmins said he liked Girard, and a former scout(once both players broke out) said that he had Debrincat ranked high which means very little because there is no public proof that Timmins outright says he would have drafted both guys. Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt on Girard, what if he had Girard higher than Debrincat and Debrincat didn't fall to the other 2nd? Of course Girard would have still been a great pick, but he wouldn't have both like posters here are claiming as facts.

 

[McGees]

Pens don't have a first rounder next year so the one they own in the upcoming draft should be up for discussion. Maybe a deal built around that first rounder and say, Poulin?

I'd do it for Poulin straight up.

 

[Runner77]

I'd do it for Poulin straight up.

I'd try and build a trade involving their first and Poulin. I'd try and ship off a couple of diminutives if they bite.

 

[CHfan1]

I'd try and build a trade involving their first and Poulin. I'd try and ship off a couple of diminutives if they bite.

Have you thought about adding Mete to the deal?

 

[Kwikwi]

Domi for Poulin Joseph and we absorb last year of Bjustad

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Yes he wanted Debrincat and Girard.

Eller is also a superior player to Shaw now and before.

Before ? Nah.

 

[salbutera]

Yes he wanted Debrincat and Girard.

Eller is also a superior player to Shaw now and before.

Let me do what you do - show me the proof please or is that what you think?

 

[Mrb1p]

Let me do what you do - show me the proof please or is that what you think?

Meh, its been discussed and Im training right now, maybe later. You can find it on the interwebs.

 

[salbutera]

Meh, its been discussed and Im training right now, maybe later. You can find it on the interwebs.

I have never heard TT mention it and can’t find a direct quote from TT or anyone from the Habs org while doing a web search....