Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread 49

[The Great Weal]

Doesnt mean he didnt have more value than what he got at the time of the trade.

Ya the difference between Subban and Weber even at that time is not why we suck. The trade was fine if we went for a run, but Stevie Wonder here envisioned adding Dwight King to push us over the top. And right now Weber looks lightyears ahead of Subban.

 

[Mrb1p]

Ya the difference between Subban and Weber even at that time is not why we suck. The trade was fine if we went for a run, but Stevie Wonder here envisioned adding Dwight King to push us over the top. And right now Weber looks lightyears ahead of Subban.

Thats not the point of my post. Weber is a better player now and was likely equal or really similar. He was however four years older and Subban was coming off norris years, he had more value and he decided to swap them one for one, thats why he lost the tradr.

 

[Runner77]

you couldn't give away Domi in a package, nobody wants him or his giant skull. Rangers are rebuilding, no way they give away the #1 pick for that pile of junk you suggested.

I had no idea skull size was a trading criteria.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Like when he lost his Drouin, Shaw, Subban trades

More like when he won the Danault, Weber, Pacioretty, Domi, Petry, Scandella etc etc etc.

He’s won more and far bigger traded than he’s lost.

 

[The Great Weal]

Thats not the point of my post. Weber is a better player now and was likely equal or really similar. He was however four years older and Subban was coming off norris years, he had more value and he decided to swap them one for one, thats why he lost the tradr.

The point of your initial point was discrediting Bergevins trades by pointing out 3 bad ones(and the Subban trade wasn't bad, just atrocious planning and vision) while ignoring the ones were he flat out robbed the other team. 4 years older, but their similar impact did not last long after Subban fell off a cliff. Subban had like 2 more elite years after the trade while Weber was and is still great the whole time. This is coming from someone who was livid with the trade and Subban was my favorite NHL player for a long time.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Thats not the point of my post. Weber is a better player now and was likely equal or really similar. He was however four years older and Subban was coming off norris years, he had more value and he decided to swap them one for one, thats why he lost the tradr.

So Weber was at least as good as PK and better now and Bergevin lost that trade? How do you reconcile that?? Because he’s older? Well better older and more effective than younger and become a has been, I say!

 

[The Great Weal]

So Weber was at least as good as PK and better now and Bergevin lost that trade? How do you reconcile that?? Because he’s older? Well better older and more effective than younger and become a has been, I say!

I don't think the trade is a win for us either, it's just not a loss. Would have been a win if Bergevin had any balls to pony up prospects, picks and young players to go on a run instead of gambling on 4th liners to carry us.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I don't think the trade is a win for us either, it's just not a loss. Would have been a win if Bergevin had any balls to pony up prospects, picks and young players to go on a run instead of gambling on 4th liners to carry us.

So it’s not a win to have Weber who’s not only a leader for the team but also leading the team in goals, points and shutting down the opposition? He’s the pillar of our D and team.

Would you trade him for PK straight up today? C’mon man. It’s a clear win.

 

[Habby4Life]

So it’s not a win to have Weber who’s not only a leader for the team but also leading the team in goals, points and shutting down the opposition? He’s the pillar of our D and team.

Would you trade him for PK straight up today? C’mon man. It’s a clear win.

It’s a clear win. Weber is playing at a high level while PK is 9mil anchor who looks like 4/5/6 D. However, I do think it’s fair to question if it would have been a better move to trade PK for a C or someone younger. Who knows what was being offered then.

Right now, Weber>>>>PK and comes with intangibles that PK didn’t bring.

I think the only trade MB lost is the Drouin trade. Shaw, maybe.

I do think MB has been too conservative. Needs to make more moves like the Armia trade.

 

[The Great Weal]

So it’s not a win to have Weber who’s not only a leader for the team but also leading the team in goals, points and shutting down the opposition? He’s the pillar of our D and team.

Would you trade him for PK straight up today? C’mon man. It’s a clear win.

The point of the trade was to go all in, Subban just broke down far sooner than one expected. We didn't go all in, we pissed around and got guys like Dwight King instead of real help.

 

[Mrb1p]

So Weber was at least as good as PK and better now and Bergevin lost that trade? How do you reconcile that?? Because he’s older? Well better older and more effective than younger and become a has been, I say!

Read my posts above, I already explained myself.

 

[Sterling Archer]

The point of the trade was to go all in, Subban just broke down far sooner than one expected. We didn't go all in, we pissed around and got guys like Dwight King instead of real help.

Agree with that but that doesn’t take away that Bergevin clearly won the PK/Weber trade regardless of the other ones.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Read my posts above, I already explained myself.

I read it but still do t see the justification that Bergevin clearly won the Weber trade. PK is barely NHL level defeceman at this point while Weber is the clear leader of the Habs.

 

[Mrb1p]

I read it but still do t see the justification that Bergevin clearly won the Weber trade. PK is barely NHL level defeceman at this point while Weber is the clear leader of the Habs.

Because you're using hindsight to justify the lost value on trade day. Subban had way more value than Weber on trade day and couldn't foresee the fall from grace that PK would have.

He got lucky, just like with his Danault trade, but in Danaults trade he at least didnt lose any value.

 

[Runner77]

The point of the trade was to go all in, Subban just broke down far sooner than one expected. We didn't go all in, we pissed around and got guys like Dwight King instead of real help.

We're still in the same spot since 2012 -- a supposed playoff team that is supposedly trying to build through the draft.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Because you're using hindsight to justify the lost value on trade day. Subban had way more value than Weber on trade day and couldn't foresee the fall from grace that PK would have.

He got lucky, just like with his Danault trade, but in Danaults trade he at least didnt lose any value.

You’re telling me I’m wrong in gauging who won a trade based on the fact I’m looking back at the trade to see who won. Do you see how crazy that sounds? When else are you supposed to judge a trade? At the time of the trade no one knows who “won” because no one knows what the outcome will be.
But, at the time of the trade Bergevin obviously thought he was making the best move for his team or he wouldn’t have made the trade which he was right, in hindsight and at the time. He clearly won that trade. Your mental gymnastics to try and justify how he “lost” the trade aren’t working.

 

[salbutera]

Because you're using hindsight to justify the lost value on trade day. Subban had way more value than Weber on trade day and couldn't foresee the fall from grace that PK would have.

He got lucky, just like with his Danault trade, but in Danaults trade he at least didnt lose any value.

Theres an assumption Subban had more value - reality likely was very few teams could swallow his AAV....

 

[Mrb1p]

One could also look at trades as a way to fulfill a purpose. Making trades just to win the player trade accomplishes nothing.

Thats also why I have trouble with people who say that Bergy is good with trades. Hes good when you look at the trades in a nutshell only.

What is acquiring value from a player if it does nothing ?

 

[Habs Icing]

Good. Maybe we can dangle our 16th pick and a prospect for Brodin (sign/trade).

Man, you're like a pitbull on a bone with this Brodin pick up.

 

[salbutera]

We're still in the same spot since 2012 -- a supposed playoff team that is supposedly trying to build through the draft.

A transactional trade is different than team building. MB won the transactional trade by a country mile - as he has with almost every one..

MB as I posted elsewhere is a transactional GM - I.e an elite Assistant GM is what he really is vs team builder which is what a GM major role is

 

[Habs Icing]

I know I am going to get a lot of hate on this trade proposal, but it will fix our scoring chances and our PP.

MONTREAL GETS
Patrick Laine

WINNIPEG GETS
Jonathan Drouin
Cale Fleury
1st round pick


Tomas Tatar - Nick Suzuki - Patrick Laine
Max Domi - Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Brendan Gallagher
Paul Byron - Philip Danault - Joel Armia
Artturi Lehkonen - Jordan Weal - Alex Belizle

Ben Chiarot - Shea Weber
Brett Kulak - Jeff Petry
Victor Mete - Xavier Ouellet

I doubt you're gonna get any hate from Hab fans.

 

[Habs Icing]

Like when he lost his Drouin, Shaw, Subban trades

He lost the DRouin big time.
Shaw was a push.
Subban he won.

 

[Mrb1p]

You’re telling me I’m wrong in gauging who won a trade based on the fact I’m looking back at the trade to see who won. Do you see how crazy that sounds? When else are you supposed to judge a trade? At the time of the trade no one knows who “won” because no one knows what the outcome will be.
But, at the time of the trade Bergevin obviously thought he was making the best move for his team or he wouldn’t have made the trade which he was right, in hindsight and at the time. He clearly won that trade. Your mental gymnastics to try and justify how he “lost” the trade aren’t working.

It sounds crazy because your idea is already cemented and youre not trying to comprehend my narative.

You know when people used to challenge heliocentric views of the solar system, thats the reaction people had.

 

[Mrb1p]

He lost the DRouin big time.
Shaw was a push.
Subban he won.

Fair if you want to call the Shaw trade a push or if you want to call the Weber trade a win but you cant have both as they logically are opposed.

 

[salbutera]

Fair if you want to call the Shaw trade a push or if you want to call the Weber trade a win but you cant have both as they logically are opposed.

How is the Shaw deal a loss - does anyone know for a fact who TT was going to select with the 2nds or is it hindsight of who was drafted?