Speculation: Trade & Free Agency Talk XXXVII

[2Pair]

There's going to be questions about most of the options we have, so I'm not offended that not everyone agrees with me about Strome, but it would be a huge bonus to be able to acquire a guy that could play top 6 center without giving up one of the defensemen or a top prospect.

The idea that we trade for Strome would be predicated on the fact that the Rangers aren't looking for typical top 6 center value (a couple fans that have responded mentioned a 3C+2nd/3rd or Greenway+undisclosed value or Firstov+undisclosed value), and that he's looking for a reasonable contract extension (in my mind, 5x5 with no trade protection).

I know you're higher than most (certainly than I am) on Greenway, and I get why, but I don't see much top 6 offensive upside in him, especially when we've got Fiala, Kaprizov and Boldy in the system, and I think bottom 6 wingers can be replaced pretty easily, even if they are great possession players. I feel Foligno could fill the third line role in his absence, and we've got to start moving wingers as is.

I think your concerns about Strome are valid and justified, and I'd still be looking at other options, but Strome could still be a cheap and potentially very viable option, a stopgap at the least.

The appeal of Greenway is that he doesn't have to be a top 6 guy to add a ton of value to a team. I want a 3rd line of Grenway - Ek - Kunin that can not only shut down other teams top lines but they can all score 30-40 even strength points while doing so. Strome in his career year this year had 33 points in 950 minutes at 5 on 5. Ek, Greenway, and Kunin had 26,25, and 24 in around 800 minutes.

If one of those 3 guys are requested in a deal for the Eichel/Barkov level players then it's see ya later to our guys. Probably have to say the same if their needed as an add in a deal for the Monahan/Horvat level guys. But, the Strome level guys you should be able to get without losing an asset that really hurts to move.

 

[fentonsbrainchild]

The appeal of Greenway is that he doesn't have to be a top 6 guy to add a ton of value to a team. I want a 3rd line of Grenway - Ek - Kunin that can not only shut down other teams top lines but they can all score 30-40 even strength points while doing so. Strome in his career year this year had 33 points in 950 minutes at 5 on 5. Ek, Greenway, and Kunin had 26,25, and 24 in around 800 minutes.

If one of those 3 guys are requested in a deal for the Eichel/Barkov level players then it's see ya later to our guys. Probably have to say the same if their needed as an add in a deal for the Monahan/Horvat level guys. But, the Strome level guys you should be able to get without losing an asset that really hurts to move.

Once Evason became the head coach there wasn’t a hierarchy of lines. But beside the point you want three players all 23 or younger to have bottom 6 even-strength minutes moving forward?

 

[2Pair]

Once Evason became the head coach there wasn’t a hierarchy of lines. But beside the point you want three players all 23 or younger to have bottom 6 even-strength minutes moving forward?

I want that particular line to be the shutdown line. Put whatever number that you like on it. The difference between their icetime and the icetime of a "2nd line" of Donato - Staal - Zuccarello would be minimal, and likely change from game to game.

People complained all year that Ek was being held back on the 3rd line but he actually ended up 2nd among forwards in TOI/G at even strength.

 

[AKL]

I want that particular line to be the shutdown line. Put whatever number that you like on it. The difference between their icetime and the icetime of a "2nd line" of Donato - Staal - Zuccarello would be minimal, and likely change from game to game.

People complained all year that Ek was being held back on the 3rd line but he actually ended up 2nd among forwards in TOI/G at even strength.

As someone who complained, it was more about his usage than his minutes. I'd like him to have the opportunity to get different usage to show what he can do in a more offensive role, while players like Koivu or even Sturm take more of the defensive burden.

We're talking about finding a center who can keep up with Fiala and Kaprizov, but we have a potential guy in the system, I just want him to have the chance to win the job before we go paying for someone else to do it. I'm fine with continuing the search while we test Ek though, and if Ek doesn't work out there, no harm no foul. Remember, there was a time where Ek was touted for his offense as well, even if it seems like ages ago.

 

[2Pair]

As someone who complained, it was more about his usage than his minutes. I'd like him to have the opportunity to get different usage to show what he can do in a more offensive role, while players like Koivu or even Sturm take more of the defensive burden.

We're talking about finding a center who can keep up with Fiala and Kaprizov, but we have a potential guy in the system, I just want him to have the chance to win the job before we go paying for someone else to do it. I'm fine with continuing the search while we test Ek though, and if Ek doesn't work out there, no harm no foul. Remember, there was a time where Ek was touted for his offense as well, even if it seems like ages ago.

There's nothing about Ek's game that suggests he should play with skill players.

 

[AKL]

There's nothing about Ek's game that suggests he should play with skill players.

Frankly there isn't a lot about O'Reilly's game that suggests he should be playing with skilled wingers either. He's very much a two way workhorse center that isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas. He doesn't have high end vision, shot, or passing abilities, but he's a smart and tough player and it works because of that. Eriksson Ek absolutely showed flashes of creativity, he has a good shot, but he's smart, he can cycle, protect the puck, and get to the front of the net.

I'm not looking for another Fiala to play between Fiala and Kaprizov, maybe that's where we differ. It would certainly be nice to have a MacKinnon on this team, but Fiala and Kaprizov need a guy who can cycle, win puck battles, keep possession, and get to the net, while remaining defensively responsible. That's what Ek is.

Same can be said about Koivu, and he played at a top 6 level for years with the most skilled players we could provide.

 

[AJ Thelen]

Frankly there isn't a lot about O'Reilly's game that suggests he should be playing with skilled wingers either. He's very much a two way workhorse center that isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas. He doesn't have high end vision, shot, or passing abilities, but he's a smart and tough player and it works because of that. Eriksson Ek absolutely showed flashes of creativity, he has a good shot, but he's smart, he can cycle, protect the puck, and get to the front of the net.

I'm not looking for another Fiala to play between Fiala and Kaprizov, maybe that's where we differ. It would certainly be nice to have a MacKinnon on this team, but Fiala and Kaprizov need a guy who can cycle, win puck battles, keep possession, and get to the net, while remaining defensively responsible. That's what Ek is.

Same can be said about Koivu, and he played at a top 6 level for years with the most skilled players we could provide.

Oh' lord, I miss the days of Antti Miettinen and Warren Peters.

 

[AKL]

Oh' lord, I miss the days of Antti Miettinen and Warren Peters.

You mean 1C Warren Peters? He's only 38, you think we could convince him to lace em up for one last hoo-rah?

 

[AJ Thelen]

You mean 1C Warren Peters? He's only 38, you think we could convince him to lace em up for one last hoo-rah?

That would be amazing, to bad NHL doesn't allow ringers.

 

[2Pair]

Frankly there isn't a lot about O'Reilly's game that suggests he should be playing with skilled wingers either. He's very much a two way workhorse center that isn't afraid to go to the dirty areas. He doesn't have high end vision, shot, or passing abilities, but he's a smart and tough player and it works because of that. Eriksson Ek absolutely showed flashes of creativity, he has a good shot, but he's smart, he can cycle, protect the puck, and get to the front of the net.

I'm not looking for another Fiala to play between Fiala and Kaprizov, maybe that's where we differ. It would certainly be nice to have a MacKinnon on this team, but Fiala and Kaprizov need a guy who can cycle, win puck battles, keep possession, and get to the net, while remaining defensively responsible. That's what Ek is.

Same can be said about Koivu, and he played at a top 6 level for years with the most skilled players we could provide.

Thinking that Ek is as skilled as O'reilly or even Koivu is just a really bad take. Ek is the 3rd least skilled player on the line when he plays with Kunin and Greenway. If it ever gets to the point where it's clear that his offense is being held back by his linemates and/or role then we can have this conversation. Until that happens the best idea is to use him in the role that he's good at.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Thinking that Ek is as skilled as O'reilly or even Koivu is just a really bad take. Ek is the 3rd least skilled player on the line when he plays with Kunin and Greenway. If it ever gets to the point where it's clear that his offense is being held back by his linemates and/or role then we can have this conversation. Until that happens the best idea is to use him in the role that he's good at.

I disagree with your last sentence (and parts of the rest, but not much use arguing opinions to heavily). He's shown enough flashes and his 5v5 scoring numbers are relatively good enough that he deserves a chance to see if there is a next level to his game, and you have to take explore that while he's young enough and pliable enough to still stretch his skillset.

He's not going to be a liability on the line. The worst case scenario is for a month our top offensive line scores a bit less but probably defends much better and we decide it doesn't work and JEE goes back to shut down duty.

The best case scenerio is he helps the scorers keep zone time better, continues to be a pain int he ass around the net opening up chances which in turn doesn't hold back their scoring at all. Maybe even improves it(kind of doubtful here), but it does improve their defending leading to a pretty dang effective line with a great goals for percentage.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He’s a better non-PP point producer than Koivu was at the same age.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Ek has offensive upside, as said before without putting it to the test we wont know if he has the potential to score 60+ without given the chance. I personally believe he could but obviously it is just my opinion on him as I am higher on him than others.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Ek has offensive upside, as said before without putting it to the test we wont know if he has the potential to score 60+ without given the chance. I personally believe he could but obviously it is just my opinion on him as I am higher on him than others.

I'd be surprised if he ever got the PP time to get 60+ points. He's not good enough at face offs, and I think there are probably players better suited distributors, shooters and net front guys if he's not winning faceoffs.

If he starts winning faceoffs at 52% or greater, he'd probably make a decent net front guy, but without the faceoffs no coach is going to put him on the PP.

That doesn't mean he can't be extremely useful getting 30-35 points even strength in our top 6, while playing 2.5 minutes of PK time a game.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I'd be surprised if he ever got the PP time to get 60+ points. He's not good enough at face offs, and I think there are probably players better suited distributors, passers and net front guys if he's not winning faceoffs.

If he starts winning faceoffs at 52% or greater, he'd probably make a decent net front guy, but without the faceoffs no coach is going to put him on the PP.

That doesn't mean he can't be extremely useful getting 30-35 points even strength in our top 6, while playing 2.5 minutes of PK time a game.

I agree, I haven't looked at his FO numbers lately to see where he is at but with PP time and given a more offensive roll I think he can hit it. I don't think he will get that chance to see if its possible though.

 

[Minnesnota]

I agree, I haven't looked at his FO numbers lately to see where he is at but with PP time and given a more offensive roll I think he can hit it. I don't think he will get that chance to see if its possible though.

It's not worth talking about him on the PP because he's so far off from being good in the dot.

That's just the reality.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

It's not worth talking about him on the PP because he's so far off from being good in the dot.

That's just the reality.

just off nhl stats his % has been going up each year, 47% this year which I agree isn't great but if you look at other Cs we would accept on the PP their % is not much if at all higher. the first three names I went with are McDavid Mckinnon and Ryan Strome as we have discussed slightly trading for him. Mckinnon has 2 good years on the dot and the rest don't look that great. If we are willing to try Strome on the PP just because he is a righty so be it but his face offs are not better than Ek.

 

[ThatGuy22]

just off nhl stats his % has been going up each year, 47% this year which I agree isn't great but if you look at other Cs we would accept on the PP their % is not much if at all higher. the first three names I went with are McDavid Mckinnon and Ryan Strome as we have discussed slightly trading for him. Mckinnon has 2 good years on the dot and the rest don't look that great. If we are willing to try Strome on the PP just because he is a righty so be it but his face offs are not better than Ek.

I can't really speak to NYR PP usage with Strome, but if JEE was right handed yes, there might be an argument for using him on the PP a bit given our shortage of righties.

There needs to be a reason he is out there.

Adding Mckinnon and McDavid into a discussion with JEE is ludicrous.

It's one thing to say he might be an asset at 5v5 due to his well rounded game with players like Kaprizov or Fiala doing the heavy lifting offensively. There is an argument for that I support trying.

There just really isn't any argument for PP time where his D game isn't important, and he doesn't win faceoffs.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I can't really speak to NYR PP usage with Strome, but if JEE was right handed yes, there might be an argument for using him on the PP a bit given our shortage of righties.

There needs to be a reason he is out there.

Adding Mckinnon and McDavid into a discussion with JEE is ludicrous.

It's one thing to say he might be an asset at 5v5 due to his well rounded game with players like Kaprizov or Fiala doing the heavy lifting offensively. There is an argument for that I support trying.

There just really isn't any argument for PP time where his D game isn't important, and he doesn't win faceoffs.

I wasn't trying to compare the games of those 2 vs JEE, just the first 2 names that popped into my head for PP and C position so looked at their faceoffs. I agree their needs to be a reason he is out there which I think net front he can be every bit as good as parise and I also think he has a quality shot he could use on the PP. once I dove deeper into face off numbers being below %50 doesn't bode well for him being the C there so I don't disagree that he needs to pump those numbers up to really be considered however is it something to argue that linemates have a lot to do with those %s? he could win 90% of his draws but not get credit due to opposing players outworking or outmuscling our players. maybe they factor all that in differently when calculating percentages I really don't know that answer.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I wasn't trying to compare the games of those 2 vs JEE, just the first 2 names that popped into my head for PP and C position so looked at their faceoffs. I agree their needs to be a reason he is out there which I think net front he can be every bit as good as parise and I also think he has a quality shot he could use on the PP. once I dove deeper into face off numbers being below %50 doesn't bode well for him being the C there so I don't disagree that he needs to pump those numbers up to really be considered however is it something to argue that linemates have a lot to do with those %s? he could win 90% of his draws but not get credit due to opposing players outworking or outmuscling our players. maybe they factor all that in differently when calculating percentages I really don't know that answer.

That's a pretty bold statement, given that Parise is legitimately one of the best net front guys of this era. Of his 386 goals career goals, i estimate figuratively all of them have been scored within 5 feet of the crease.

I mean it's almost literally the only part of his game you can confidently say is still really good given he was 8th in the league in PP goals (both total and P/60) .

 

[DeagleJenkins]

That's a pretty bold statement, given that Parise is legitimately one of the best net front guys of this era. Of his 386 goals career goals, i estimate figuratively all of them have been scored within 5 feet of the crease.

I mean it's almost literally the only part of his game you can confidently say is still really good given he was 8th in the league in PP goals (both total and P/60) .

Its bold but ill stand by it.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

~35 ES points playing with Kunin and Greenway.

+10 point bump for seeing PP2 time.

+10 point bump for playing with more offensive players 5v5.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I wonder how much we’d have to add to staal(50% retained) to get Cirelli out of Tampa. They’ve shown they’re willing to overpay for cap space by trading 2 firsts for Coleman. Staal being a 50-60 point player at 1.7ish million for the year is probably pretty valuable. I don’t know how much else they would need. I’d have a hard time adding a 1st to it, though if we could add Pittsburgh’s 1st I would probably do it. Cirelli looks like he could develop into a 70 point Seke winning center. Ala O’Rielly 2.0

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I wonder how much we’d have to add to staal(50% retained) to get Cirelli out of Tampa. They’ve shown they’re willing to overpay for cap space by trading 2 firsts for Coleman. Staal being a 50-60 point player at 1.7ish million for the year is probably pretty valuable. I don’t know how much else they would need. I’d have a hard time adding a 1st to it, though if we could add Pittsburgh’s 1st I would probably do it. Cirelli looks like he could develop into a 70 point Seke winning center. Ala O’Rielly 2.0

id be perfectly fine paying staal + pits 1st for him. he is showing that he would be our best C currently and possibly moving forward and is young. sure I don't want to get rid of a first but for a need as big as C is for us ill do it if that's all they ask for.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

5 x $6.3M offer sheet. 1st + 3rd round compensation. I'd do it.