Speculation: Trade & Free Agency Talk XXXIII

[AKL]

One of the things I like about how the Blues front office works is that they move on from players instead of re-signing them to long and expensive deals.

You mean the team that just signed Justin Faulk for 6.5M until he's 35?

The team that's probably going to try and sign Pietrangelo for 9+ until he's 37?

O'Reilly 7.5M until he's 33?

Now that I'm thinking about it, which notable players have they moved on from? Paul Stastny who didn't want to be there? Kevin Shattenkirk who sucks?

 

[Wabit]

And he'll be a top pairing defenseman for most of that.

Again, no one is going to let a couple of years in 5-6 years deter them from paying for a top 30-40 defenseman in the league.

Justin Faulk just signed for 7 years for 6.5. That takes him to what? 34? 35? I'd take Spurgeon over that 10 times out of 10.

Spurgeon might not even be a top pairing d-man this year for MN...

It doesn't make either of them good deals. Paying a top 30-40 d-man, top-10 d-man money, what's not to like? Currently the 30th highest paid d-man makes less than $6m/yr.

If you're going by what deals I'd take. I'd take Gardiner's deal over both of Faulk/Spurgeon, at least he's an appropriately paid player for the 2nd pair.

 

[Wabit]

You mean the team that just signed Justin Faulk for 6.5M until he's 35?

The team that's probably going to try and sign Pietrangelo for 9+ until he's 37?

O'Reilly 7.5M until he's 33?

Now that I'm thinking about it, which notable players have they moved on from? Paul Stastny who didn't want to be there? Kevin Shattenkirk who sucks?

Stasney, Backes, Oshie, Shattenkirk, and Elliott off the top of my head. They aren't going to re-sign Pietranglo.

The ROR trade was a great trade, they dumped Bergland and Sabotka in it.

Shattenkirk didn't suck at the time, he was a 40p+ top pair d-man, top 30ish d-man. He turned into a boat anchor after he signed his new deal.

The Faulk signing was a odd, and a bad deal, but at least it's structured in a way that he'll be moveable at the end of it. The last 3 years of it pay him less than $5m real money.

The Spurgeon and Faulk deals are in the same category as the Lucic, Eriksson, and Backes deals when they were signed, dumb moves that will end up biting the team in the behind.

 

[Puhis]

Laine's a pipe dream. The discussion for his trade starts and probably ends with either Dumba or a young top-6 center. We don't really have an abundance of the latter, and trading Dumba to add more firepower is really far more lateral of a move than we'd want. Besides, it's not like Laine has a low value. We've all seen what he can do in this league with the puck on his stick. The kid has the most lethal shot of anyone not named Ovechkin, and even with Ovi, it's close.

What I'd quite like to see, though, is a move for Puljujärvi. He can probably be had for a price quite cheap, and would be an interesting gamble. Yeah, supposed lack of motivation combined with hockey IQ that doesn't really register are both pretty big yellow - if not red - flags, but he wasn't a 4th overall pick for nothing. I still think he can turn it around, but he will need more time and someone to guide him. Now, how about a certain captain who can speak to Jesse in his own language? Hm?

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Laine's a pipe dream. The discussion for his trade starts and probably ends with either Dumba or a young top-6 center. We don't really have an abundance of the latter, and trading Dumba to add more firepower is really far more lateral of a move than we'd want. Besides, it's not like Laine has a low value. We've all seen what he can do in this league with the puck on his stick. The kid has the most lethal shot of anyone not named Ovechkin, and even with Ovi, it's close.

What I'd quite like to see, though, is a move for Puljujärvi. He can probably be had for a price quite cheap, and would be an interesting gamble. Yeah, supposed lack of motivation combined with hockey IQ that doesn't really register are both pretty big yellow - if not red - flags, but he wasn't a 4th overall pick for nothing. I still think he can turn it around, but he will need more time and someone to guide him. Now, how about a certain captain who can speak to Jesse in his own language? Hm?

I've said before he would have been a great target. But I'm not sure where he would fit. The logical thing would be someone like Kunin - similar skill set, etc. But the Wild love his character too much to take that particular gamble - even if Puljujärvi is a more skilled player - I would think.

At one time, they could have used Rask coming back the other way, now with Riley Sheahan they've solved that problem to some extent. Hope the young Finn comes back to the NHL this season though.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Being able to play a top pair defender on your 2nd pairing, is nothing but an asset to a team.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Being able to play a top pair defender on your 2nd pairing, is nothing but an asset to a team.

 

[Bazeek]

I don't think Spurgeon's contract is "bad" relative to the league-wide market. The most recent UFA contracts are always the worst, and Spurgeon's "badness" delta relative to guys like McDonagh is about what I'd expect. I don't like his contract relative to his likely role on the Wild: he'll be making 1st pair money to be our "3rd" top-pairing guy. There's something to be said for maintaining an overloaded top-4 when our forward group is such a mystery, but long term I question it.

That said, I haven't been able to come up with anything concrete that Spurgeon's contract is likely to prevent us from doing. Maybe it makes it harder to pursue a center in free agency next summer, but that takes us straight back to offering "bad" contracts to guys like Nugent-Hopkins or Schenn. Is that really a better option?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't think Spurgeon's contract is "bad" relative to the league-wide market. The most recent UFA contracts are always the worst, and Spurgeon's "badness" delta relative to guys like McDonagh is about what I'd expect. I don't like his contract relative to his likely role on the Wild: he'll be making 1st pair money to be our "3rd" top-pairing guy. There's something to be said for maintaining an overloaded top-4 when our forward group is such a mystery, but long term I question it.

That said, I haven't been able to come up with anything concrete that Spurgeon's contract is likely to prevent us from doing. Maybe it makes it harder to pursue a center in free agency next summer, but that takes us straight back to offering "bad" contracts to guys like Nugent-Hopkins or Schenn. Is that really a better option?

He'll still be playing top pair minutes though, just not with Suter (probably). If I had to guess, at the end of the season (and the next few seasons), there will be a very minimal difference between the number of minutes he and Dumba play and the quality of competition that they face. Spurgeon's might actually end up being "harder".

 

[Bazeek]

He'll still be playing top pair minutes though, just not with Suter. If I had to guess, at the end of the season (and the next few seasons), there will be a very minimal difference between the number of minutes he and Dumba play and the quality of competition that they face. Spurgeon's might actually end up being "harder".

Possibly. I don't think anyone can deny the benefits of having a top-4 of Suter, Dumba, Brodin and Spurgeon, regardless of the pairings and minutes, especially when our forward group is so awkward. Whether that benefit is important enough to justify the cost... only time can answer that one.

My only real worry is that the contract doubles down on the Wild's Perennial Bubble Team status: keeps us from being bad without actually making us better. That really goes beyond Spurgeon, though.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Possibly. I don't think anyone can deny the benefits of having a top-4 of Suter, Dumba, Brodin and Spurgeon, regardless of the pairings and minutes, especially when our forward group is so awkward. Whether that benefit is important enough to justify the cost... only time can answer that one.

My only real worry is that the contract doubles down on the Wild's Perennial Bubble Team status: keeps us from being bad without actually making us better. That really goes beyond Spurgeon, though.

It goes directly to our 21-23 year old forwards, same as it did in 2012-13. With a really good defense in place, we're now dependent on what Fiala, Greenway, Kunin, Donato, Kaprizov and Eriksson Ek turn out to be.

 

[absolute garbage]

If the team can somehow replace Koivu and Staal within the next 1-3 seasons with two talented centers, without losing all their other valuable players, they can get over that perennial bubble team hump.

It's going to be really difficult. But it's the only way they can achieve success with this current veteran core. I think that sucking next year/getting lucky in the lottery and potentially drafting someone like Byfield is pretty much a necessary step at this point. Then trade a couple of wingers for the other center.

 

[Uberdachen]

If the team can somehow replace Koivu and Staal within the next 1-3 seasons with two talented centers, without losing all their other valuable players, they can get over that perennial bubble team hump.

It's going to be really difficult. But it's the only way they can achieve success with this current veteran core. I think that sucking next year/getting lucky in the lottery and potentially drafting someone like Byfield is pretty much a necessary step at this point. Then trade a couple of wingers for the other center.

And yet you're still going to need a different plan.

 

[AKL]

Not sure how old this is to some of you, but the TSN guys apparently peg Geurin as someone who's active in trade talks trying to find a top 6 center.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Not sure how old this is to some of you, but the TSN guys apparently peg Geurin as someone who's active in trade talks trying to find a top 6 center.

saw your other thread on this. Just not a lot of players that fit the bill. And to think that going the other way might have to be a really valuable piece like Kaprizov or Greenway or JEE. But TSN is an important part of the hockey ecosystem so he has to give them something.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

saw your other thread on this. Just not a lot of players that fit the bill. And to think that going the other way might have to be a really valuable piece like Kaprizov or Greenway or JEE. But TSN is an important part of the hockey ecosystem so he has to give them something.

Maybe he is truelly going after a top 6 C under 28 years old and is willing to spend kap greenway or jee to get it. that's our biggest need so why hold back when spending for it.

 

[Bazeek]

Not sure how old this is to some of you, but the TSN guys apparently peg Geurin as someone who's active in trade talks trying to find a top 6 center.

I said it on the trade board thread but I'll say it here too: this is the wrong time to force a trade that the team has been trying to make for the better part of a decade now. I would hope that gauging the center market is high on Guerin's to-do list so it'd make sense to hear that he's asking around, but spending assets on the type of centers that'll be available at this time of year seems like a mistake.

Throw this lot into the deep end of the pool, see who sinks and who swims, and bide your time.

 

[57special]

Mittelstadt for Fiala?

 

[thestonedkoala]

Some intriguing names on the waiver wire; Matthew Peca, Brendan Gauce, John Quenneville.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Mittelstadt for Fiala?

Buffalo does not have excess centers.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

I'd take a flyer on Quenneville. Great AHL numbers, can play C.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I'd take a flyer on Quenneville. Great AHL numbers, can play C.

Thinking the same thing; plus we get him from Chicago!

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Maybe he is truelly going after a top 6 C under 28 years old and is willing to spend kap greenway or jee to get it. that's our biggest need so why hold back when spending for it.

It definitely would be costly. In the other thread, I was seeing names like Alex Wennberg, Jeff Carter, Phil Danault. You could maybe make a case for them. Not sure what other options are really available. The Wild do have a lot of good, inexpensive wingers and something like four 3rd line centers most teams would probably be happy to ice.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Something has to give with one or two of the wingers by next year anyway.

 

[2Pair]

I'd take a flyer on Quenneville. Great AHL numbers, can play C.

Probably need to cut Eriksson Ek for that to make sense