Speculation: Trade Deadline: March 8, 2024

[Jakey53]

Enjoy the 1/2 full glass!


Too fixated on o-zone possession and looking for the “can’t miss” opportunity.

Keller and Schmaltz are a man short when playing 5vs5 most of the time.

 

[lanky]

Until someone trades us a 2nd or 3rd round pick I'm assuming the other GMs are conspiring to not give BA another 2nd or 3rd round pick during his tenure with the Coyotes.

It was a seller's market this year. There's not much question which teams are making the playoffs. This makes for fewer buyers and more sellers.

 

[BAdvocate]

It was a seller's market this year. There's not much question which teams are making the playoffs. This makes for fewer buyers and more sellers.

Very true but I was bored so I came up with a conspiracy theory.

 

[Jakey53]

The point is that by the time the team will actually be worthy of competing on a regular basis for the playoffs and beyond, Schmaltz will be 30+ and on a new contract. If you aren’t planning on resigning the player two years from now and having him apart of your long term plans then why would you not trade him for assets or young players that can help you when you’re entering the next phase and more competitive? Doesn’t make any sense at all. Hold on to him…because why exactly? Unless you want to sign him to a new deal after this one expires.

I don't think anyone is against trading Schmaltz, or anyone else on this team for that matter, it's the return you need to get is the sticker. We are not talking LOB here, rather a talented player who you need to get a good return for. It takes two to dance, it's not some fantasy league.

 

[Jakey53]

With that thinking, next year we likely won't make the playoffs, too high of a goal. Do you tell the team, "lets play meaningful games" again. Somebody, and it should start with the GM then the coach, has to say "our goal is to make the playoffs" no matter what. BA/Bear are getting exactly what they expected out of the team this year. If they set a different expectation they might get a different result. True leaders sets higher goals.

What's really the difference by saying let's play meaningful games or let's be a bubble team? We all knew this wasn't a playoff team, far from a playoff team. BA should have said "all NHL teams goal is to make the playoffs and win the SC, and it's our goal as well, and at the very least I want our team this year to play meaningful games, and maybe be a bubble team. You can't set unrealistic goals, players aren't dumb. True leaders set REALISTIC goals so the followers don't get frustrated knowing it can't be attained.

 

[Jakey53]

What you are saying is not in isolation either. The Athletic has him at a market value of $5.1m. They list his cap hit as salary at $5.9. However, his total salary for the next 2 years is $8.5 per so $3.4m higher than his value if you were to roll with The Athletic's market value.

View attachment 834138

What you are saying is not in isolation either. The Athletic has him at a market value of $5.1m. They list his cap hit as salary at $5.9. However, his total salary for the next 2 years is $8.5 per so $3.4m higher than his value if you were to roll with The Athletic's market value.

View attachment 834138

Let's look at the team he is playing for. Not sure how the Athletic comes up with these numbers.

 

[TheLegend]

*saturday night fever gif*

 

[DustyDangler]

Let's look at the team he is playing for. Not sure how the Athletic comes up with these numbers.

The team he plays for is not market value and just because he is a Coyote doesn't mean he needs to be overpaid by 25%+.

If he was a UFA, would he get $8.5m per? He got bank because an inexperienced GM overpaid him on a hope that did not fully materialize. There are 105 skaters who have more points than him. He isn't $8.5m worth of special.

Players near his point production:
Tarasenko - $5m
Ehlers - $6m
Toffoli - $3.5m
Moore - $4.5
W Karlsson - $5.6

 

[Jakey53]

The team he plays for is not market value and just because he is a Coyote doesn't mean he needs to be overpaid by 25%+.

If he was a UFA, would he get $8.5m per? He got bank because an inexperienced GM overpaid him on a hope that did not fully materialize. There are 105 skaters who have more points than him. He isn't $8.5m worth of special.

Players near his point production:
Tarasenko - $5m
Ehlers - $6m
Toffoli - $3.5m
Moore - $4.5
W Karlsson - $5.6

I'm not saying Schmaltz is worth $8.5. His contract is back loaded and we only paid him $3mil his first two years. His average salary is $5.85 What I was trying to say is what would those numbers that the Athletic posted be if he played for another team, slotted as a second line winger where he should be playing.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

You won't hit a goal you aren't aiming for. Bear/BA should have said our goal is to make the playoffs, have the players believe that goal. They never said that, never set that as a goal, thats a mistake, and the first reason we didn't hit it.

I've got no problem with this logic.... except the roster.

 

[rt]

I'm not saying Schmaltz is worth $8.5. His contract is back loaded and we only paid him $3mil his first two years. His average salary is $5.85 What I was trying to say is what would those numbers that the Athletic posted be if he played for another team, slotted as a second line winger where he should be playing.

And the reality is we are a budget team so I couldn’t care less what his cap hit is or what he was paid previously. All that matters is how many real dollars remain. And the answer is simply too many.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The point is that by the time the team will actually be worthy of competing on a regular basis for the playoffs and beyond, Schmaltz will be 30+ and on a new contract. If you aren’t planning on resigning the player two years from now and having him apart of your long term plans then why would you not trade him for assets or young players that can help you when you’re entering the next phase and more competitive? Doesn’t make any sense at all. Hold on to him…because why exactly? Unless you want to sign him to a new deal after this one expires.

You have to maintain some semblance of competitiveness, Schmaltz helps with that. We can't have an entire roster of stupid kids, or it will be hell on ice.
Speaking of hell..... hell Keller may be too old by the time the success of this rebuild comes to fruition, IF, that ever happens. Wanna move him too? We could get more dumb kids, that might be pro's one day!

 

[Coyotedroppings]

With that thinking, next year we likely won't make the playoffs, too high of a goal.

If there aren't some BIG changes / improvements to the roster, that's exactly what will (wont (in this case) happen.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I'm not saying Schmaltz is worth $8.5. His contract is back loaded and we only paid him $3mil his first two years. His average salary is $5.85 What I was trying to say is what would those numbers that the Athletic posted be if he played for another team, slotted as a second line winger where he should be playing.

Agreed, ol' Dusty completely missed the point.

 

[Jakey53]

And the reality is we are a budget team so I couldn’t care less what his cap hit is or what he was paid previously. All that matters is how many real dollars remain. And the answer is simply too many.

I agree, but we can't give him away, unless we can sign a better UFA or trade Schmaltz in a package to get a better player. We will be a budget team with or without Schmaltz, and the three mil. or whatever you think he is overpaid is not much in the grand scheme of things. This years cap floor is almost 62 mil., we are at around $45 with Schmaltz. I'm fine if we trade Schmaltz, if we get the right return, and I would hope BA has the same mindset.

 

[Foggy1097]

You have to maintain some semblance of competitiveness, Schmaltz helps with that. We can't have an entire roster of stupid kids, or it will be hell on ice.
Speaking of hell..... hell Keller may be too old by the time the success of this rebuild comes to fruition, IF, that ever happens. Wanna move him to? We could get more dumb kids, that might be pro's one day!

Agreed on the competitiveness but this just drives my point home further…Cooley and Guenther and even Maccelli seem to compete harder than Schmaltz does! If he would compete and work hard consistently then fine by all means stay. But he is getting out worked and out hustled, out board battled, out worked getting to loose pucks…by rookies and second year players, and players that make way less money than he does. If that’s going to happen and you’re going to be overpaid on a backloaded contract, I’ll take the young guy who’s hungry any day of the week.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Keller and Schmaltz are a man short when playing 5vs5 most of the time.

We're short in a lot of aspects, doesn't mean we should call NHL talent crap.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Agreed on the competitiveness but this just drives my point home further…Cooley and Guenther and even Maccelli seem to compete harder than Schmaltz does! If he would compete and work hard consistently then fine by all means stay. But he is getting out worked and out hustled, out board battled, out worked getting to loose pucks…by rookies and second year players, and players that make way less money than he does. If that’s going to happen and you’re going to be overpaid on a backloaded contract, I’ll take the young guy who’s hungry any day of the week.

Either your eyes deceive you, you're too emotional regarding hustle and the appearance of work ethic, or just don't know what you're talking about. Guys like Schmaltz are an asset, I'm not saying Schmaltz is Patrick Kane (far from it), but a person could make the same case against him, if he wasn't a superstar and an idiot can make it, even though he is.

I wouldn't mind seeing Schmaltz be Charlie Hustle, but that's not his game. He's smart, skilled and fairly crafty and I'm certain he does work hard at it. He's never going to be a board battle champion, hell it's amazing that he wins as many as he does, considering his lack of physicality, but that lack of physicality keeps the skilled player in the game. He's still one of our top players and is a seasoned pro, other guys need to hustle more just to be at his level. I should know, I was one of those other guys.

IMO, the last thing we need to do is move him for a pathetic second, or another young player "on the come", if he's moved the return needs to be much better than that. If we can't get a good return, just let the kids grow and learn from him..... they aren't going to learn to loaf, they can't afford to.

 

[Foggy1097]

Either your eyes deceive you, you're too emotional regarding hustle and the appearance of work ethic, or just don't know what you're talking about. Guys like Schmaltz are an asset, I'm not saying Schmaltz is Patrick Kane (far from it), but a person could make the same case against him, if he wasn't a superstar and an idiot can make it, even though he is.

I wouldn't mind seeing Schmaltz be Charlie Hustle, but that's not his game. He's smart, skilled and fairly crafty and I'm certain he does work hard at it. He's never going to be a board battle champion, hell it's amazing that he wins as many as he does, considering his lack of physicality, but that lack of physicality keeps the skilled player in the game. He's still one of our top players and is a seasoned pro, other guys need to hustle more just to be at his level. I should know, I was those other guys.

IMO, the last thing we need to do is move him for a pathetic second, or another young player "on the come", if he's move the return needs to be much better than that. If we can't get a good return, just let the kids grow and learn from him..... they aren't going to learn to loaf, they can't afford to.

Well either way, I’m assuming the reason he hasn’t been moved yet is because BA hasn’t gotten a good enough offer to feel like it’s worth it…so I’m not that worried about him being undersold too bad on a deal.

 

[crazyhockeylover96]

Keller and Schmaltz are a man short when playing 5vs5 most of the time.

Maybe that explains all the too many men penalties. Over compensation.

 

[Jakey53]

Either your eyes deceive you, you're too emotional regarding hustle and the appearance of work ethic, or just don't know what you're talking about. Guys like Schmaltz are an asset, I'm not saying Schmaltz is Patrick Kane (far from it), but a person could make the same case against him, if he wasn't a superstar and an idiot can make it, even though he is.

I wouldn't mind seeing Schmaltz be Charlie Hustle, but that's not his game. He's smart, skilled and fairly crafty and I'm certain he does work hard at it. He's never going to be a board battle champion, hell it's amazing that he wins as many as he does, considering his lack of physicality, but that lack of physicality keeps the skilled player in the game. He's still one of our top players and is a seasoned pro, other guys need to hustle more just to be at his level. I should know, I was one of those other guys.

IMO, the last thing we need to do is move him for a pathetic second, or another young player "on the come", if he's moved the return needs to be much better than that. If we can't get a good return, just let the kids grow and learn from him..... they aren't going to learn to loaf, they can't afford to.

Good post.

 

[Jakey53]

We're short in a lot of aspects, doesn't mean we should call NHL talent crap.

Let's shuffle the words and say "crap NHL talent." I don't think we should disrespect any pro athlete, but as fans we get so emotional tied to our teams and to be quite honest not one of use knows what it's like to be a pro athlete having people talking shit about you etc. They have worked harder to get where they are than anyone of us. It's no wonder teams tell their players don't read or listen to social media. They are humans just like the rest of us and have feelings as well.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

to be quite honest not one of use knows what it's like to be a pro athlete having people talking shit about you

Speak for yourself, brother.

 

[Jakey53]

Speak for yourself, brother.

Are you saying you are a pro athlete?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Let's shuffle the words and say "crap NHL talent." I don't think we should disrespect any pro athlete, but as fans we get so emotional tied to our teams and to be quite honest not one of use knows what it's like to be a pro athlete having people talking shit about you etc. They have worked harder to get where they are than anyone of us. It's no wonder teams tell their players don't read or listen to social media. They are humans just like the rest of us and have feelings as well.

I respect the game and the league too much to call any NHL player crap of any kind.