Speculation: Trade Deadline: March 8, 2024

[Jakey53]

Scoring per 60 (5v5) is illuminating. DG has been much better than Schmaltz.

Schmaltz is only slightly better than OB.

Player	G/60	A/60	P/60
Michael Carcone	1.6	0.6	2.21
Lawson Crouse	1.05	0.45	1.5
Clayton Keller	1.02	0.81	1.83
Dylan Guenther	0.75	1.12	1.86
Nick Bjugstad	0.73	1.1	1.83
Jack McBain	0.69	1.38	2.07
Matias Maccelli	0.61	1.5	2.11
Logan Cooley	0.58	0.8	1.38
Jason Zucker	0.49	0.99	1.48
Alex Kerfoot	0.44	1.26	1.7
Michael Kesselring	0.44	0.78	1.22
Nick Schmaltz	0.41	0.89	1.3
Liam O'Brien	0.33	0.88	1.21

Clayton Keller is seventh on that list. Does make him our seventh best player? Both Keller and Schmaltz have not been good 5vs5 all year.

 

[rt]

All in the eye of the beholder. I would say Schmaltz is arguably our second best player…

That’s hilarious.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Clayton Keller is seventh on that list. Does make him our seventh best player? Both Keller and Schmaltz have not been good 5vs5 all year.

Keller is third in goals per 60. His assist numbers suffer because he's feeding Schmaltz and Hayton and they suck.

 

[rt]

Who did they rush exactly? Hayton/Runblad/Gormley/Bunting? What players were ruined. Most here complain about not having prospects up soon enough because the vets are not good. I like Gunts, think he is coming along, again he is a winger and what else is Bear going to say? The key to our team success is not wingers.

The "mental gymnastics" is bear/BAtalking about whatever during our 20 game slide/disaster, who is accountable for that? The players see through it all, mailing it in now.....

I don’t love the message, either. But if you think they means the players are absolved of accountability to their level of effort, you’re nuts.

 

[Jakey53]

He could get us to the playoffs much quicker for sure, but there would be a cost and that cost would be draft capital and prospects. The team isn't competitive enough yet to attract free agents and without the arena sorted out, top tier players aren't going to willingly sign on. If he spent the picks now it's unlikely they stay a playoff team for a string of seasons and also unlikely they are a legitimate threat in the playoffs. There just isn't enough draft capital to trade for what the team needs. You're also buying the most expensive assets in teambuilding. Once that flares out, the team craters back down again with the fanbase hanging it hats on the glory years of 2-3 playoffs in a row with an appearance in the 2nd round.

Armstrong is intentionally stockpiling us halfway to the moon by focusing on the long-term. By establishing a strong core with promising prospects waiting in the wings, it means the team can make the playoffs on a regular basis and he can selectively add what's needed to go for the Cup.

For Meruelo, he wants Armstrong to build him a continually strong contender like how the Sharks were for well more than a decade. That's what the market needs, high probability that when the team is good, it continues to be good. That's how you build a sustained fanbase that stays locked in with the team for life.

Meruelo and Armstrong understand that to put the Coyotes on the best footing they will ever have had, competitively and economically, it means you don't take a shortcut.

Who said we are taking a short cut?

 

[cobra427]

Tampa Bay's trajectory to their first Stanley Cup:

1997-98 - 44 Pts
1998-99 - 47 Pts
1999-00 - 54 Pts
2000-01 - 59 Pts
2001-02 - 69 Pts
2002-03 - 93 Pts (Playoffs)
2003-04 - 106 Pts (Stanley Cup)

The losing culture they built up over 5 seasons really messed that team up for good!

They changed GMs and head coach in 2001/2002. So, the culture cost them their jobs. Are you saying our next GM and coach will take us to a cup? Thats what happened in Tbay.....

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

That’s hilarious.

Schmaltz "should be" our 2nd best player, but he's not most nights.

 

[Jakey53]

Keller is third in goals per 60. His assist numbers suffer because he's feeding Schmaltz and Hayton and they suck.

Who is getting Keller the puck? It sure in hell isn't Hayton.

 

[Foggy1097]

Who did they rush exactly? Hayton/Runblad/Gormley/Bunting? What players were ruined. Most here complain about not having prospects up soon enough because the vets are not good. I like Gunts, think he is coming along, again he is a winger and what else is Bear going to say? The key to our team success is not wingers.

The "mental gymnastics" is bear/BAtalking about whatever during our 20 game slide/disaster, who is accountable for that? The players see through it all, mailing it in now.....

I get it, but Bear he said repeatedly in interviews and pieces with Morgan that he’s tossing and turning everyday trying to figure out how best to use players and how to be better everyday, and he knows it starts with him. I genuinely believe that he’s turning over every rock he can but there’s only so much that he can realistically do. Aside from the too many men penalties I really can’t justifiably point any fingers at this coaching staff.

This org has rushed prospects since forever in a rush to “hurry up and try to compete. Our lives depend on it!” No one has ever once taken the right approach here to a rebuild and that’s why it has failed every single time. Boedker and Turris were rushed prospects. Mueller probably as well. Tikhonov? Strome was rushed. How many young players have played on this team over the years that have stepped into the league too soon? Even Chych, though he was successful and seemed like he handled it well, you could argue was rushed. Would have been interesting to see how this regime handled him as an 18 year old.

 

[Jakey53]

That’s hilarious.

I know you don't like Schmaltz, and he is far from perfect, but his play is not as bad as you say. There is a lot of blame to go around for this second half failure, and it's easy to point fingers at s player or players, but bottom line is we don't have the talent.

 

[Kai Yo T]

They changed GMs and head coach in 2001/2002. So, the culture cost them their jobs.

So what? Feaster got to reap the rewards for what Dudley spent years building.

Are you saying our next GM and coach will take us to a cup? Thats what happened in Tbay.....

What I did say was:

"The losing culture they built up over 5 seasons really messed that team up for good!"

It had nothing to do with expectations, only culture.

 

[rt]

I know you don't like Schmaltz, and he is far from perfect, but his play is not as bad as you say. There is a lot of blame to go around for this second half failure, and it's easy to point fingers at s player or players, but bottom line is we don't have the talent.

I’m talking about his entire career. He’s always been what he is. And that’s a top six player and plenty desirable on the market. Very talented. Does quite a lot quite well. He’s making nearly twice as much cash as he’s worth, these last two seasons of his deal.

He’s a 55pt player. And that’s appealing to any team. But he’s about as bad as a reliable 55pt producer type can possibly be. He gives you those points with level 10/10 softness, 10/10 inconsistency, and 10/10 defensive zone passivity.

These are severely mitigating factors. They don’t make him worthless. He provides very useful secondary scoring. And on a better team with a better mix of players, he theoretically could make other players better with his neutral zone play, speed, zone entries, and playmaking.

He’s a bad fit for Arizona and that’s amplified by the ridiculous fact that he’s the highest paid player on the team when he’s just so deeply flawed.

 

[Foggy1097]

Schmaltz is who he is, and if he was on a team with a Tkachuk, Marchand, Trouba type or a few guys like that, and he was playing the second line he would be fine. He’s not a scapegoat for the entire team, but when he’s a long tenured player and alternate captain I expect more out of him. As a “leader” and tenured player he is consistently underwhelming. The roster needs to continue to evolve under the culture BA and Bear are building by either phasing players like Schmaltz out, or by insulating them with more heart and soul players that are going to be the true leaders of the team.

 

[rt]

Schmaltz is who he is, and if he was on a team with a Tkachuk, Marchand, Trouba type or a few guys like that, and he was playing the second line he would be fine. He’s not a scapegoat for the entire team, but when he’s a long tenured player and alternate captain I expect more out of him. As a “leader” and tenured player he is consistently underwhelming. The roster needs to continue to evolve under the culture BA and Bear are building by either phasing players like Schmaltz out, or by insulating them with more heart and soul players that are going to be the true leaders of the team.

Agree. Problem with insulating him with the right types of players is that his salary level hinders our ability to do so. He’s gobbling up like 4mil in surplus budget space above his value to the team.

Thus, my desire to see him traded. Pretty simple. Not very emotional.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Hayton sucks...I'm ready to move on. Trade Hayton to Ducks for Gudas, they need a Henrique replacement

Keller/Cooley/Guenther
Maccelli/Bjugstad/Schmaltz
Crouse/Geekie/Doan
Kerfoot/McBain/Carcone
LOB (if I have to)

Then spend some money on D for pete's sake
Dillon (Free Agent Signing)/Gudas
Moser/Durzi
Martinez (Free Agent Signing)/Kesselring

 

[moosemeister]

Hayton sucks...I'm ready to move on. Trade Hayton to Ducks for Gudas, they need a Henrique replacement

Keller/Cooley/Guenther
Maccelli/Bjugstad/Schmaltz
Crouse/Geekie/Doan
Kerfoot/McBain/Carcone
LOB (if I have to)

Then spend some money on D for pete's sake
Dillon (Free Agent Signing)/Gudas
Moser/Durzi
Martinez (Free Agent Signing)/Kesselring

I wouldn't move Hayton, but I'm certainly not putting him in the top six under any circumstance next season.

He's a bottom six center, a good one at that. Let the bottom six centers next year be Hayton and McBain. Cooley and Bjugstad can be top six centers.

 

[Jakey53]

I’m talking about his entire career. He’s always been what he is. And that’s a top six player and plenty desirable on the market. Very talented. Does quite a lot quite well. He’s making nearly twice as much cash as he’s worth, these last two seasons of his deal.

He’s a 55pt player. And that’s appealing to any team. But he’s about as bad as a reliable 55pt producer type can possibly be. He gives you those points with level 10/10 softness, 10/10 inconsistency, and 10/10 defensive zone passivity.

These are severely mitigating factors. They don’t make him worthless. He provides very useful secondary scoring. And on a better team with a better mix of players, he theoretically could make other players better with his neutral zone play, speed, zone entries, and playmaking.

He’s a bad fit for Arizona and that’s amplified by the ridiculous fact that he’s the highest paid player on the team when he’s just so deeply flawed.

Take out your second paragraph and I would agree. Schmaltz is a .70 PPG player for his career. Those kind or players don't grow on trees.

 

[Foggy1097]

Agree. Problem with insulating him with the right types of players is that his salary level hinders our ability to do so. He’s gobbling up like 4mil in surplus budget space above his value to the team.

Thus, my desire to see him traded. Pretty simple. Not very emotional.

Yeah, agree 100%. It’s impossible. I was just talking more theoretically…

 

[Jakey53]

Schmaltz is who he is, and if he was on a team with a Tkachuk, Marchand, Trouba type or a few guys like that, and he was playing the second line he would be fine. He’s not a scapegoat for the entire team, but when he’s a long tenured player and alternate captain I expect more out of him. As a “leader” and tenured player he is consistently underwhelming. The roster needs to continue to evolve under the culture BA and Bear are building by either phasing players like Schmaltz out, or by insulating them with more heart and soul players that are going to be the true leaders of the team.

If Schmaltz is faded out or traded fine, but you need someone better to replace him, and until that time comes we don't have much choice, do we? To trade him for a 2nd. would be total insanity.

Agree. Problem with insulating him with the right types of players is that his salary level hinders our ability to do so. He’s gobbling up like 4mil in surplus budget space above his value to the team.

Thus, my desire to see him traded. Pretty simple. Not very emotional.

I agree, and that is why I thought he would be traded last year, but for much more than a 2nd. like you have being saying.

 

[Jakey53]

I wouldn't move Hayton, but I'm certainly not putting him in the top six under any circumstance next season.

He's a bottom six center, a good one at that. Let the bottom six centers next year be Hayton and McBain. Cooley and Bjugstad can be top six centers.

Hayton will center Keller and Schmaltz because he is the best fit, which proves again how weak our C talent is.

 

[cobra427]

I don’t love the message, either. But if you think they means the players are absolved of accountability to their level of effort, you’re nuts.

I think players are accountable, but if you think or anyone else thinks the GM/Coach aren't accountable too, not sure what to say, because that is my point.

 

[rt]

I wouldn't move Hayton, but I'm certainly not putting him in the top six under any circumstance next season.

He's a bottom six center, a good one at that. Let the bottom six centers next year be Hayton and McBain. Cooley and Bjugstad can be top six centers.

Celebrini.

 

[cobra427]

So what? Feaster got to reap the rewards for what Dudley spent years building.



What I did say was:

"The losing culture they built up over 5 seasons really messed that team up for good!"

It had nothing to do with expectations, only culture.

A new coach and new GM gave the players more hope, Torts was coach number 3 in the rebuild. Kind of like when DM/Tip took over(+30 points), or did they reap the rewards from Barnett/TGO? The change in leadership in Tbay helped change the culture.

 

[moosemeister]

Celebrini.

He's going to Chicago or Montreal, let's be real.

 

[rt]

He's going to Chicago or Montreal, let's be real.

Nope. We’re getting Saturday Morning Cartoon naming convention centers….

Macklin Celebrini
Logan Cooley
Conor Geekie
Jack McBain

…of course, the scary part is the formula holds true with Jett Luchanko also.