Speculation: Trade Deadline II

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

So let me ask you this. Would you rather have a late first round pick this summer or Gudas?

It would be different if the Flyers were in contention for a Stanley Cup or prolonged playoff run, but they aren't. That's why you maximize the asset in Gudas. This also frees up the spot for Meyers who can play the right side. I get the whole 'veteran presence' but the Flyers need to start evaluation of talent at the NHL level and now is the time to do it.

I could care less where Gudas ends up. I just want to see the Flyers get the best package they can get for him. You know there will be teams lining up to acquire a guy like Gudas and they'll pay a premium as well.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Fletcher supposedly scouted Calgary on Thursday. That's certainly a team that would be interested in one or both of Simmonds and Gudas.

Some interesting young players in their organization: Kylington, Valimaki, Andersson. Also curious if they'd give up on Bennett.

Love both these guys. Before they won the lottery I was hoping they picked Valimaki. Kylington was hyped up and then fell pretty far. From what I have seen he has played well since being drafted.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I still think Dallas would be a good landing spot for Simmer. They have some interesting young guys too.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Love both these guys. Before they won the lottery I was hoping they picked Valimaki. Kylington was hyped up and then fell pretty far. From what I have seen he has played well since being drafted.

It's not hyperbole on my part when I say that Kylington is one of the best skaters I've seen in my entire life. Whether he'll be able or not to play defense in the NHL, I don't know.

I do know that Gudas would be a perfect replacement for Michael Stone (blood clot) and they probably wouldn't mind adding Simmonds for their playoff run, either.

I doubt they'd trade Rasmus Andersson; he's a hell of a young RH defenseman for them already. And they probably don't want to trade Valimaki, either; he's only 20 and was the 16th overall pick just two drafts ago. BUT, Bennett continues to disappoint, and Kylington is probably attainable given they have Valimaki. I'd look into a deal involving Simmonds and Gudas from the Flyers, and Bennett and Kylington from the Flames.

 

[Magua]

It's hurts my head to read trading Gudas for Andreas Johnsson or some other run-of-the-mill 3rd line player. Talk about trading weakness for strength. That does not improve the team. Johnsson would be buried on the depth chart in no time.

Gudas' value to the team never gets oversold by fans. I have no interest in any of those Calgary defensemen just because they're names with a vaguely familiar ring to them, which is what usually matters most in these hypotheticals. If you want Gudas with 1.5 years of term, impress me (a la Coburn).

And I'm not as quick to want to be rid of him after this contract. A team needs reliable veterans, and Gudas is a RHD who makes every partner better, which is immense when you have kids filtering in. I will be thoroughly impressed if 3 years from now we have 6 d-men who are better than Gudas. And he's in that perfect area as a player where he can neither command great term or salary. He's only 28 years old, without any impending sign of collapse.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It's hurts my head to read trading Gudas for Andreas Johnsson or some other run-of-the-mill 3rd line player. Talk about trading weakness for strength. That does not improve the team. Johnsson would be buried on the depth chart in no time.

Gudas' value to the team never gets oversold by fans. I have no interest in any of those Calgary defensemen just because they're names with a vaguely familiar ring to them, which is what usually matters most in these hypotheticals. If you want Gudas with 1.5 years of term, impress me (a la Coburn).

And I'm not as quick to want to be rid of him after this contract. A team needs reliable veterans, and Gudas is a RHD who makes every partner better, which is immense when you have kids filtering in. I will be thoroughly impressed if 3 years from now we have 6 d-men who are better than Gudas. And he's in that perfect area as a player where he can neither command great term or salary. He's only 28 years old, without any impending sign of collapse.

There’s two other defensemen that we regularly play that should be first to go by any means possible if the true goal is to clear space & improve the team.

 

[TheKingPin]

Everyone thought Tatar return was too high. We either don’t know everything like a bidding war or some other price driver. I’m not sure you can compare bad trades as the standard.

Also, what’s the problem a late first? We have turned them in to Giroux, Williams, Gagne, Konecny etc. Those guys took a bit to come to prominence, but we could use that in about 5 years to manage the cap situation we may be in with success. We don’t need to trade assets like that for roster players now. We have some high end skill coming from the phantoms and juniors. We can sign some very good players. And we could hit on our pick this year.

 

[Magua]

There’s two other defensemen that we regularly play that should be first to go by any means possible if the true goal is to clear space & improve the team.

Welcome to the "I want this player gone for ulterior motives or because I don't value them fully, so I'll work backwards from there and name bland pieces" thread.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Johnsson is more than a run-of-the-mill 3rd liner. He ought to be able to score around 20 goals/year given the opportunity. He'd be a significant improvement over Scott Laughton, and Johnsson is a cost-controlled 24 y/o, vs. Gudas who is a 4/5 defenseman, UFA after next season, and will be 30 to start his next contract. There may be better deals out there for Gudas, and if so you take it. But I want to avoid the inevitable overpayment he's going to get in his next contract.

 

[Tripod]

Provy Ghost
Sanheim Gudas
Morin Myers
Hagg

That "should" be our 7 next year if they just make AMac disappear. We WILL have injuries so Hagg will get icetime too. This year the only one to miss time was AMac(excluding Morin). It's actually crazy how healthy the D has been. Of course, the flipside is that the goalies were like wet paper. The fact that we have used the same amount of Dmen this year, as goalies, is just crazy

I am not for trading Gudas unless it's in the summer, and another RH Dman better than Gudas is somehow acquired. And even then, I am ok with trading Hagg instead and let Morin work his way in from the #7 spot and re-asses things at the next deadline.

No matter what, we know we can get a 2nd for Gudas in the summer or at next years deadline. Trading him now without a better option would be wrong.

Oh, and it's also why Myers should be up playing so he can get games in this year to help transition into next year.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Provy Ghost
Sanheim Gudas
Morin Myers
Hagg

That "should" be our 7 next year if they just make AMac disappear. We WILL have injuries so Hagg will get icetime too. This year the only one to miss time was AMac(excluding Morin). It's actually crazy how healthy the D has been. Of course, the flipside is that the goalies were like wet paper. The fact that we have used the same amount of Dmen this year, as goalies, is just crazy

I am not for trading Gudas unless it's in the summer, and another RH Dman better than Gudas is somehow acquired. And even then, I am ok with trading Hagg instead and let Morin work his way in from the #7 spot and re-asses things at the next deadline.

No matter what, we know we can get a 2nd for Gudas in the summer or at next years deadline. Trading him now without a better option would be wrong.

Oh, and it's also why Myers should be up playing so he can get games in this year to help transition into next year.

Seeing that D on paper really underscores the team's need for a #1 defenseman. That corps scares the hell out of me with its uncertainty. All 3 pairs could very well struggle for consistency in the roles they'd be assigned.

 

[The Madrigal]

Provy Ghost
Sanheim Gudas
Morin Myers
Hagg

That "should" be our 7 next year if they just make AMac disappear. We WILL have injuries so Hagg will get icetime too. This year the only one to miss time was AMac(excluding Morin). It's actually crazy how healthy the D has been. Of course, the flipside is that the goalies were like wet paper. The fact that we have used the same amount of Dmen this year, as goalies, is just crazy

I am not for trading Gudas unless it's in the summer, and another RH Dman better than Gudas is somehow acquired. And even then, I am ok with trading Hagg instead and let Morin work his way in from the #7 spot and re-asses things at the next deadline.

No matter what, we know we can get a 2nd for Gudas in the summer or at next years deadline. Trading him now without a better option would be wrong.

Oh, and it's also why Myers should be up playing so he can get games in this year to help transition into next year.

They would benefit greatly by adding a top four guy. That defense is still too young and with too many questions marks if they are going to be a playoff team. Make Myers or Morin earn their spot. I just don't see the upside to breaking in two new rookie D, to go along with an already young core of Provorov, Ghost, and Sanheim. I find myself agreeing with you an awful lot lately but I'm not even sure I can get behind the thought process behind this idea. I thought we all learned lessons from the Flyers trying to go too young on defense this year.

 

[The Madrigal]

Seeing that D on paper really underscores the team's need for a #1 defenseman. That corps scares the hell out of me with its uncertainty. All 3 pairs could very well struggle for consistency in the roles they'd be assigned.

I couldn't agree more. They can't be relying on two rookies and three young guys (Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim) to carry the D if they have real ideas of being a playoff team. There needs to be some balance and Gudas as the only veteran D isn't balance.

 

[Tripod]

Seeing that D on paper really underscores the team's need for a #1 defenseman. That corps scares the hell out of me with its uncertainty. All 3 pairs could very well struggle for consistency in the roles they'd be assigned.

They could. Yet you want to remove Gudas from that too remember.

I have said before, I am 100% ok to go after EK or any other top Dman. I use Gudas as the tipping point. If we can find someone better than him, try and add him. If it's someone worse, then we have kids who's upsides are better so just run with them.

And knowing a LITTLE bit of extra infor from Myers and Morin this Spring can at least give us more insight to what they could be next year. That's why they should be playing instead of Hagg and AMac.

 

[Tripod]

They would benefit greatly by adding a top four guy. That defense is still too young and with too many questions marks if they are going to be a playoff team. Make Myers or Morin earn their spot. I just don't see the upside to breaking in two new rookie D, to go along with an already young core of Provorov, Ghost, and Sanheim. I find myself agreeing with you an awful lot lately but I'm not even sure I can get behind the thought process behind this idea. I thought we all learned lessons from the Flyers trying to go too young on defense this year.

I did say in that post that we could have Morin as the #7 and earn his way in if we acquired a better Dman and kept Gudas.

I am ok with all these options. I am not one that thinks we "don't" need to look for D. I just think it needs to be one better than Gudas and ADD that guy to this group, not just swap out a young one for that guy.

And yes, we have agreed a lot lately. I think you stopped at the wrong hive....lol.

 

[Tripod]

I couldn't agree more. They can't be relying on two rookies and three young guys (Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim) to carry the D if they have real ideas of being a playoff team. There needs to be some balance and Gudas as the only veteran D isn't balance.

in fairness, Ghost will be entering his 5th season and will be 26. He is a vet.

But we as an organization should always be looking for high end talent to add to our team. And if that means Morin is gone or ends up a #7 Dman for 2 years, so be it.

 

[Striiker]

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They could. Yet you want to remove Gudas from that too remember.

I have said before, I am 100% ok to go after EK or any other top Dman. I use Gudas as the tipping point. If we can find someone better than him, try and add him. If it's someone worse, then we have kids who's upsides are better so just run with them.

And knowing a LITTLE bit of extra infor from Myers and Morin this Spring can at least give us more insight to what they could be next year. That's why they should be playing instead of Hagg and AMac.

I'm willing to trade Gudas and Ghost -- given a good return -- because I don't consider either a first pairing defenseman.

Gudas can be replaced by Morin and Myers can replace Ghost in the bottom 2 pairings without a significant detrimental impact, IMO. But they really need an established #1 to play with Provorov, whether they keep one or both of Gudas and Ghost or not.

 

[Magua]

Johnsson is more than a run-of-the-mill 3rd liner. He ought to be able to score around 20 goals/year given the opportunity. He'd be a significant improvement over Scott Laughton, and Johnsson is a cost-controlled 24 y/o, vs. Gudas who is a 4/5 defenseman, UFA after next season, and will be 30 to start his next contract. There may be better deals out there for Gudas, and if so you take it. But I want to avoid the inevitable overpayment he's going to get in his next contract.

Johnsson is the same age as Scott Laughton, plays on one of the best teams in the league (where he actually gets some PP time w/ 3 points), and has 22 points in 43 games, compared to Laughton's 19 in 48 on a bottom feeder. We'll see how sustainable Johnsson's 14% shooting % is, along with that 105 PDO. Johnsson has a -5% xGF% compared to Laughton's +2%. Laughton is also an above average PKer, which is not in Johnsson's skill-set. I'm sure desiring Johnsson -- who, yes, is a run-of-the-mill player we already have, don't need, and will have much better replacements than by next season even -- has nothing to do with scoring a hat trick against us earlier this season.

The idea we should trade one of our best defenseman this season, a sure thing top 4 player who improves the play of his partners, for Johnsson is utterly ridiculous with how many bums occupy spots on the backend as is. It hurts the team -- end of story. Toronto makes that trade so fast Fletcher's head spins. If the presumed ideal want for Gudas is a late 1st or so, you're saying Johnsson is worth that. If we reach the point where a 3 year offer or whatever doesn't do it for Gudas, he doesn't lose value over the summer or likely next season.

 

[baudib1]

Gudas is a guy I could see dropping off quite a bit as he gets older. He skates fine and has decent mobility but once he falls off in those areas he could be a liability. I'm not against re-signing him per se, but a year from now I could see a situation where there's a logjam. Myers, Morin, Friedman, Wylie could all be good 4-5-6 guys, and I envision Hogberg as a solid plug-and-play guy.

 

[The Madrigal]

Gem from the main boards:

"Simmonds is not the kind of rental worth a 1st. He's a B prospect and a 2nd or 2 2nds kind of guy."

 

[baudib1]

Gem from the main boards:

"Simmonds is not the kind of rental worth a 1st. He's a B prospect and a 2nd or 2 2nds kind of guy."

I think this is realistically what he's worth but someone will give up a lot more than that.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

So people really value Gudas as having a skill set that cant be replaced? Ok, people may not come right out and said it but it sure seems like people feel that way. I like the guy but I would trade him if the return was right.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I just want to know who this legitimate number one defensemen is that the Flyers will be able to acquire and what the cost will be. It seems to be a concept that gets thrown around often. The last time the Flyers acquired a number one defenseman, he was 34 years old, logged a lot of miles on his body, and cost quite a bit in terms of assets and contract. How about getting a good coach and staff and let Provorov continue to grow and learn. Same with Sanheim. Adversity is a great educator.

 

[Striiker]

So people really value Gudas as having a skill set that cant be replaced? Ok, people may not come right out and said it but it sure seems like people feel that way. I like the guy but I would trade him if the return was right.

Replaced by who?

We have nobody in the organization who can step in to replace him (Morin and Myers are hopefully replacing our two worst defensemen, Hagg and Mac) and we're unlikely to find the same quality of player in FA, especially for such a low price. So why not just keep him instead of either keeping one of our two trash defensmen, downgrading the roster with an inferior FA, or needing to give up assets for someone else?