Speculation: Trade Deadline II

[Ghosts Beer]

Is this year the norm? Maybe we should trade Giroux for picks since we suck anyways and then hope in the offseason to replace him. Great planning.

And again...Myers should be in for AMac, Morin in for Hagg. Easy peasy.

LOL. Come on, Tripod. You're really going to act like trading Gudas is analogous to trading Giroux?

And AMac and Hagg don't have Gudas' trade value. This is a bad team. Sell high on a piece that stands to have diminishing returns in the near future.

 

[magnumpi]

LOL. Come on, Tripod. You're really going to act like trading Gudas is analogous to trading Giroux?

And AMac and Hagg don't have Gudas' trade value. This is a bad team. Sell high on a piece that stands to have diminishing returns in the near future.

Did you sleep with someone's wife here?

Such animosity, wow

you make a comment that seems harmless to me and 5 people get angry about it.

Maybe you're all talking in code or something and I'm not privy to the language being spoken

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

"They're already bad, so why not make them even worse?!"

I thought that was the goal for this draft

 

[Striiker]

I thought that was the goal for this draft

It certainly seems to be the goal of quite a few people on this board.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Did you sleep with someone's wife here?

Such animosity, wow

you make a comment that seems harmless to me and 5 people get angry about it.

Maybe you're all talking in code or something and I'm not privy to the language being spoken

I don’t know, man. It’s easy to come off arrogantly on a message board, & I’m sure I do sometimes, but a lot of people also seem to take competing opinions pretty personally.

 

[magnumpi]

I don’t know, man. It’s easy to come off arrogantly on a message board, & I’m sure I do sometimes, but a lot of people also seem to take competing opinions pretty personally.

This is very bizarre to me.

The topics being discussed and your posts don't warrant incivility.
Your messages are as non confrontational as "the sky is blue".
I could understand if you were saying outrageous things like "Giroux sucks, trade him". " Hart is going to be a bust", etc. etc. You're discussing hypothetical trades and the scenarios being presented by people will 95% never happen so why get hostile about it?

Its a message board about hockey, people need to get over themselves.
Its real easy being a big shot in front of a monitor.

As I said the same handful of people do the same against Deadhead and I think its garbage. And for the most part I'm agreeing with their mindset about the Flyers. So this isn't a case of me disagreeing with their hockey opinions.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, guys, why get "hostile" over posts on a message board?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This is very bizarre to me.

The topics being discussed and your posts don't warrant incivility.
Your messages are as non confrontational as "the sky is blue".
I could understand if you were saying outrageous things like "Giroux sucks, trade him". " Hart is going to be a bust", etc. etc. You're discussing hypothetical trades and the scenarios being presented by people will 95% never happen so why get hostile about it?

Its a message board about hockey, people need to get over themselves.
Its real easy being a big shot in front of a monitor.

As I said the same handful of people do the same against Deadhead and I think its garbage. And for the most part I'm agreeing with their mindset about the Flyers. So this isn't a case of me disagreeing with their hockey opinions.

I think a lot people derive a sense of social status from their message board identities, as weird as that is. It's tribal in nature; they develop feelings of self-worth out of being part of the most popular tribe in a social setting (in this case, internet message boards). Accordingly, they like to flaunt their position at the top of this social hierarchy by treating poorly those outside of their accepted group. Psychologically, they also like to censor and shout down the differing viewpoints of those outside their tribe, even if those views are presented civilly, as (even subconsciously) the contrasting perspectives are perceived as potential threats to their dominant status. You pretty much see the same social constructs on any message board on the internet; it's a fascinating insight into human behavior.

 

[magnumpi]

I think a lot people derive a sense of social status from their message board identities, as weird as that is. It's tribal in nature; they develop feelings of self-worth out of being part of the most popular tribe in a social setting (in this case, internet message boards). Accordingly, they like to flaunt their position at the top of this social hierarchy by treating poorly those outside of their accepted group. Psychologically, they also like to censor and shout down the differing viewpoints of those outside their tribe, even if those views are presented civilly, as (even subconsciously) the contrasting perspectives are perceived as potential threats to their dominant status. You pretty much see the same social constructs on any message board on the internet; it's a fascinating insight into human behavior.

i agree, that's whats going on here.

Back in the aOl days we had the anti-Clarke and pro-Clarke groups.
naturally I was in the anti-Clarke people.

Both sides (myself included) behaved like total jerks towards the other side. Now, there was small minority of people who were telling both sides to calm down. I guess that's where I'm falling into during 2019.

However, I don't see the controversy here. Exactly why are probably holding grudges, other than at some point you didn't want Hakstol fired or felt it didn't matter. That must be the source of the problem based on what I've read the past 12 months.
I wanted him fired. I hated him. But I'm not holding a personal grudge against someone who at some point didnt want him fired. Who the hell cares

 

[Rebels57]

 

[magnumpi]

View attachment 179511

geat gif man,

i love it

 

[Magua]

geat posts

 

[Striiker]

View attachment 179511

You're heartless if this budding romance didn't stir up something inside of you...

 

[Ghosts Beer]

i agree, that's whats going on here.

Back in the aOl days we had the anti-Clarke and pro-Clarke groups.
naturally I was in the anti-Clarke people.

Both sides (myself included) behaved like total jerks towards the other side. Now, there was small minority of people who were telling both sides to calm down. I guess that's where I'm falling into during 2019.

However, I don't see the controversy here. Exactly why are probably holding grudges, other than at some point you didn't want Hakstol fired or felt it didn't matter. That must be the source of the problem based on what I've read the past 12 months.
I wanted him fired. I hated him. But I'm not holding a personal grudge against someone who at some point didnt want him fired. Who the hell cares

For one, I think the posters who are the nastiest tend to be on the younger side, and I think it's a natural part of youth to be rather all-or-nothing in your thinking. I'm nearing 40, and I know in my teens and younger 20s I thought in a much more black-and-white fashion. But, as I got older I learned that there's almost nothing in life that is clear cut; rather, almost everything is in multiple shades of gray. For example, in my youth I used to think along the lines of "you can never win a championship with _____," as many people do. But that's an overly simplistic way of thinking, and almost nothing is that cut and dried. And there's almost always more than one angle that can be successful in solving a problem.

Another factor is that many fans developed such an incredibly deep hatred of Dave Hakstol -- an intensely deep-seated loathing of his very being and everything he touched -- that anything that didn't reinforce the justness of this overwhelming derision was treated as blasphemy. So anyone who so much as defended *anything* Hakstol did, or refused to agree that Hakstol was the devil himself, was burned at the stake by the mob in power. Very much a Crucible-esque scenario. Or maybe a more apt literary analogy is the Scarlet Letter, in that some posters have been branded and ostracized by the community for breaking its moral code.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[mja]

 

[Magua]

.

 

[Magua]

Gudas isn't a "sure thing top 4 player." He's 6th this season among Flyer defensemen in ES TOI/G. He was 6th last season among Flyer defensemen in ES TOI/G also.

That's because of Dave Hakstol being an ignoramus who consistently misevaluated players and failed to reward good play. I don't think that's a point worth debating anymore. We know how he's performed in his top 4 role.

Or, they can wait until next season like they did with Streit and have him detach his pubic bone. I like Gudas, but I think you are overrating him, and I think now is a prudent time to get something for him.

Comparing Streit to Gudas is a false equivalency. Streit was ancient. Gudas is 28 years old. Injury risk can happen to any player.

Moving on to Andreas Johnsson, you clearly disagree with my opinion that Johnsson is a roughly 20-goal capable winger. Though you evaluate him as merely a "run of the mill" third line player "we already have, don't need," I don't see many blazing fast wingers with consistent 20 goal potential on this squad, but that's just me. I guess we'll see how his career unfolds vs. Laughton's. I certainly stand by my belief that Johnsson will be a much more productive goal scorer than Scotty boy throughout their respective careers.

Johnsson has the 5th highest 5v5 on-ice shooting % in the league among forwards. He is top 40 in 5v5 shooting% with a 15.5 shooting%. His xGF% numbers are heavily negative, so if you want to bank on that not being partly luck based, which would drop his production going forward, be my guest. His most common center in TOI, at 1/3 his ice time, is Matthews. Half his points are assisted/scored by Matthews, Marner, Tavares.

It's insulting that you would say I'm basing my opinion on Johnsson solely on his one game against the Flyers this season, but no doubt that was your intent. Johnsson was a major offensive weapon as a young player in the Swedish elite league (and jr. A) before coming to North America, and Johnsson is 45th in the NHL this season (>300 minutes played) in 5 on 5 goals/60. Tied with Alex deBrincat, and better than many better known players. He's a much more skilled player than you are giving him credit for.

Since when is SHL and jr. A production and points/60 important? We have a 22 year old who performed well in all 3 (before his demotion), and you gave him nothing but grief. You treated it like an imaginary stat.

You are I guarantee the only person on this forum who would trade Simmonds/Gudas/the equivalent of a 1st round pick straight up for Johnsson and views him as some essential need to our top 9 given the organizational talent depth. That doesn't mean he's a bad player; it means he's replaceable within our organizational pool.

 

[Striiker]

Some people just can't evaluate players.

They've made that clear.

 

[Tripod]

LOL. Come on, Tripod. You're really going to act like trading Gudas is analogous to trading Giroux?

And AMac and Hagg don't have Gudas' trade value. This is a bad team. Sell high on a piece that stands to have diminishing returns in the near future.

I said it before, Gudas's value today is likely not any different than in the summer. And personally, I wait to see if we can actually upgrade the D, before I intentionally make it worse.

 

[lancer247]

LVG: Simmonds

PHL: 1st rd + Carrier

 

[DancingPanther]

 

[Tripod]

Delete

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That's because of Dave Hakstol being an ignoramus who consistently misevaluated players and failed to reward good play. I don't think that's a point worth debating anymore. We know how he's performed in his top 4 role.



Comparing Streit to Gudas is a false equivalency. Streit was ancient. Gudas is 28 years old. Injury risk can happen to any player.



Johnsson has the 5th highest 5v5 on-ice shooting % in the league among forwards. He is top 40 in 5v5 shooting% with a 15.5 shooting%. His xGF% numbers are heavily negative, so if you want to bank on that not being partly luck based, which would drop his production going forward, be my guest. His most common center in TOI, at 1/3 his ice time, is Matthews. Half his points are assisted/scored by Matthews, Marner, Tavares.



Since when is SHL and jr. A production and points/60 important? We have a 22 year old who performed well in all 3 (before his demotion), and you gave him nothing but grief. You treated it like an imaginary stat.

You are I guarantee the only person on this forum who would trade Simmonds/Gudas/the equivalent of a 1st round pick straight up for Johnsson and views him as some essential need to our top 9 given the organizational talent depth. That doesn't mean he's a bad player; it means he's replaceable within our organizational pool.

Like I said, I look forward to seeing how Gudas plays on his next contract in relation to the cap space and term he gets. (And the point with Streit was that sometimes it's best to trade a player when you have the opportunity at the peak of his value, especially when he may only have one more year left with your team).

Similarly, I look forward to seeing how Andreas Johnsson's career progresses compared to Laughton, and if Johnsson ends up just a "run of the mill" third liner like you stated. I think he can be a 20 goal scorer, and I think in *this year's* draft I'd take a speedy, 24 year-old, 20-goal caliber winger over a *late* first (not any first, which you implied). I consider the 2019 draft similar to 2012 in the last third of the first round, so not the usual value there IMO. If you can get someone better than Johnsson for Simmonds or Gudas, great.

I'm honestly not sure why you have such a burr in your saddle over some of the Simmonds and Gudas trade suggestions. Heck, you've even reacted prickly to the notion that the NHL's giveaway stats aren't accurate, saying that my belief Ghost is turnover prone is a figment of my imagination. Seems like you interpret me as some kind of enemy. Odd.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I said it before, Gudas's value today is likely not any different than in the summer. And personally, I wait to see if we can actually upgrade the D, before I intentionally make it worse.

I'm not saying that's an unreasonable stance. However, I imagine Gudas will have maximum value if a contender is getting his services for 2 playoff seasons instead of just one. So I'd see what's out there before this year's deadline. You might run into trouble with contenders filling holes via free agency in the summer, also.