Trade and Free Agent Discussion Thread - 2018/2019 Season v3

[BlueForever75]

I think it's Z's contract more than anything. I think they could get the same player at half the cost

Ok name me two players that can provide the same as Z does for half the price, that wont cost us anything astronomical. Zaitsev would be taken by many teams in the NHL had he actually been shopped. He hasn't been because he is too valuable to the Leafs and Babcock.

I really don't see what the guy is doing wrong for him to be crapped on so much. He's on the PK, he's the only one that remotely plays D in his pairing. He's gritty, blocks shots, and gets the puck out. What else do you want him to do?

 

[SprDaVE]

If Dubas can find a way to dump Zaitsev and bring t a legit top four replacement he will be in early contention for his own statue on legends row

Agreed. Plenty of dumb GMs in this league. I wonder if he could actually get value for a defenseman with 1 primary point in this past calendar year making 4.5M for another 5 years or whatever how long it is.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think it's Z's contract more than anything. I think they could get the same player at half the cost

It pretty much is. It wouldn't be hard to find a PK specialist.

 

[Kiwi]

Ok name me two players that can provide the same as Z does for half the price, that wont cost us anything astronomical. Zaitsev would be taken by many teams in the NHL had he actually been shopped. He hasn't been because he is too valuable to the Leafs and Babcock.

I really don't see what the guy is doing wrong for him to be crapped on so much. He's on the PK, he's the only one that remotely plays D in his pairing. He's gritty, blocks shots, and gets the puck out. What else do you want him to do?

He blocks shots because he can't get the puck out with any type of control, he also can't hold his own blueline and backs in on top of Andersen

He's Polak but at 4 times the cost and Gardiner is the only thing keeping that pair above water, he does the puck moving because Zaitsev can't

He's a bottom pair defenseman, you don't pay those 4.5M for forever

 

[BlueForever75]

He's better the Hainsey.

And way better then Oz. He's not the issue on the backend.

Replace those two clogs on D and see how good the team is.

Comparing him to Polak is really funny.

Damn if he's Polak then there are a lot of hockey GMs out there that know a hell of a lot more then all of us that would be willing to give up two 2nds for him.

You guys are hilarious. Have any of you played the game ever. There are a couple of creditable posters on here, and I respect their opinions. But to say Zaitsev is useless and the issue with this blue line. Sorry your wrong.

 

[Duke16]

Zaitsev
Kapanen
Rasanen
2019 1st
2020 2nd (becomes a 1st if Leafs win cup in either year)

For

Pietrangelo
Maroon

This deal was floated out there on Twitter and seems reasonable to me. Very comparable to what Tampa gave up to acquire McDonagh. I'd rather not have that condition on the 2020 pick, but I can live with it if we win the cup.

 

[Rob Brown]

Zaitsev
Kapanen
Rasanen
2019 1st
2020 2nd (becomes a 1st if Leafs win cup in either year)

For

Pietrangelo
Maroon

This deal was floated out there on Twitter and seems reasonable to me. Very comparable to what Tampa gave up to acquire McDonagh. I'd rather not have that condition on the 2020 pick, but I can live with it if we win the cup.

Not sure St. Louis would flip Maroon out of respect since he just signed a hometown deal (and has a NTC), but I'd probably pull trigger on this.

 

[Cor]

I think I would rather get Hjalmarsson from ARI for less assets.

 

[BlueForever75]

Zaitsev
Kapanen
Rasanen
2019 1st
2020 2nd (becomes a 1st if Leafs win cup in either year)

For

Pietrangelo
Maroon

This deal was floated out there on Twitter and seems reasonable to me. Very comparable to what Tampa gave up to acquire McDonagh. I'd rather not have that condition on the 2020 pick, but I can live with it if we win the cup.

Zaitsev
Bracco
Rasanen
2019 1st
2020 2nd (no condition)

for the previously mentioned players from St Louis. Maroon doesn't come close to a JT Miller. Sorry. Kapanen is over kill and a loss for the Leafs.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/brett-howden/920237

 

[stickty111]

He's better the Hainsey.

And way better then Oz. He's not the issue on the backend.

Replace those two clogs on D and see how good the team is.

Comparing him to Polak is really funny.

Damn if he's Polak then there are a lot of hockey GMs out there that know a hell of a lot more then all of us that would be willing to give up two 2nds for him.

You guys are hilarious. Have any of you played the game ever. There are a couple of creditable posters on here, and I respect their opinions. But to say Zaitsev is useless and the issue with this blue line. Sorry your wrong.

Nikita Zaitsev
CF%: 47.38(4th worst on the team)
FF%: 44.69(2nd worst on the team
SF/60: 25.31(3rd worst among regulars on the team)

Zaitsev without Gardiner
CF%: 44.60
FF%: 42.31

Gardiner without Zaitsev:
CF%: 52.38
FF%: 50

Yeah Zaitsev is pretty bad

 

[SprDaVE]

Not sure St. Louis would flip Maroon out of respect since he just signed a hometown deal (and has a NTC), but I'd probably pull trigger on this.

I'm pretty sure he would like to go on a cup run. He can sign back in the summer like Plekanec did.

It's not like he signed a multi year contract. He signed a 1 year deal and I don't think he thought they'd be that bad.

 

[Duke16]

Zaitsev
Bracco
Rasanen
2019 1st
2020 2nd (no condition)

for the previously mentioned players from St Louis. Maroon doesn't come close to a JT Miller. Sorry. Kapanen is over kill and a loss for the Leafs.

Pietrangelo is also > McDonagh

 

[Rob Brown]

Zaitsev
Bracco
Rasanen
2019 1st
2020 2nd (no condition)

for the previously mentioned players from St Louis. Maroon doesn't come close to a JT Miller. Sorry. Kapanen is over kill and a loss for the Leafs.

I'm actually inclined to agree. Kapanen included is too much for us.

 

[Cor]

I'm actually inclined to agree. Kapanen included is too much for us.

I disagree.

Expecting St Louis to trade an elite d-man for a player most leaf fans would love to get rid of, two maybes and two picks is kinda ridiculous.

A piece like Kapanen is needed in a deal like this.

That is actually a fair proposal.

 

[Dreakmur]

I disagree.

Expecting St Louis to trade an elite d-man for a player most leaf fans would love to get rid of, two maybes and two picks is kinda ridiculous.

A piece like Kapanen is needed in a deal like this.

That is actually a fair proposal.

Yeah, it’s kind of funny.

If Zaitsev was worth his salary, everyone wouldn’t be trying to dump him, right? So, if he’s not worth his salary, why would St. Louis want him as the main return for a perennial Norris candidate?

 

[Cor]

Yeah, it’s kind of funny.

If Zaitsev was worth his salary, everyone wouldn’t be trying to dump him, right? So, if he’s not worth his salary, why would St. Louis want him as the main return for a perennial Norris candidate?

I think Zaitsev is underrated now. When you factor in his ZSR, his analytics are about where they should be. He isn't Hjalmarsson good, but he's still a fine defensive d-man. I would take Zaitsev over Chris Tanev for example (just don't tell Canuck fans).

So I think he's a good piece, but he can't be the main piece.

Kapanen + Zaitsev + Rasanen + 1st + 2nd is a well balanced and fair proposal IMO. Losing Kappy hurts, but he might price himself off the team anyway.

 

[Pi]

Did Gord Miller recently have a concussion? He’s missing a few brain cells.

He’s advocating teams offer sheet Matthews for 16M because it doesn’t matter. Toronto will match it and that will dent their contention window severely.

Now let’s see this in action:

Arizona offer sheets Matthews for 16m. Fails to get him.

Keller is up for a contract. Demands 12M because if Matthews is worth 16M, he’s worth 12. Doesn’t matter if the Coyotes got Matthews or not. All they do there is f*** themselves over as well.

Why was Weber offer sheeted? It made a whole lot of sense because you could circumvent the cap with long term deals. There is no such luxury. If you offer sheet him for max, sooner or later your players up for a contract will want to be paid based on what Matthews is making.

 

[Dreakmur]

I think Zaitsev is underrated now. When you factor in his ZSR, his analytics are about where they should be. He isn't Hjalmarsson good, but he's still a fine defensive d-man. I would take Zaitsev over Chris Tanev for example (just don't tell Canuck fans).

So I think he's a good piece, but he can't be the main piece.

Kapanen + Zaitsev + Rasanen + 1st + 2nd is a well balanced and fair proposal IMO. Losing Kappy hurts, but he might price himself off the team anyway.

Oh, I like Zaitsev as a steady #4. He's on a bad contract though.

 

[Jozay]

The McDonagh deal seems like a good basis for a Pietrangelo deal, although I would say Pietrangelo is a little bit better.

 

[Boutette]

Oh, I like Zaitsev as a steady #4. He's on a bad contract though.

How much do you think steady #4's should be paid? Or do you think he will not be a steady #4 for the length of his contract?

 

[Cor]

Oh, I like Zaitsev as a steady #4. He's on a bad contract though.

I would disagree with that.

4.5M is a fair value for a second pairing guy.

Some guys in the same price range; Matheson, Dumoulin, Murphy, Savard, Tanev, Scandella, Faulk, Bogosian, Stone, Kulikov.

Some slightly better, some slightly worse, some much worse. As the cap increases, it becomes an even cheaper deal to swallow.

 

[Dreakmur]

How much do you think steady #4's should be paid? Or do you think he will not be a steady #4 for the length of his contract?

I would be a lot more comfortable if he was making about a million less... or his contract was a few years shorter.

It's not a terrible contract, mind you, but it's a tad rich for my liking.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Nikita Zaitsev
CF%: 47.38(4th worst on the team)
FF%: 44.69(2nd worst on the team
SF/60: 25.31(3rd worst among regulars on the team)

Zaitsev without Gardiner
CF%: 44.60
FF%: 42.31

Gardiner without Zaitsev:
CF%: 52.38
FF%: 50

Yeah Zaitsev is pretty bad

Gardiner's main partners when he is away from Zaitsev: Rielly, Carrick (if we go back to last year), Dermott.

Zaitsev's main partner: Hainsey.

You want to guess the difference in deployment between those two when they are away from each other? Let's just say Gardiner's main focus is not playing defense when he is away from Zaitsev, and Zaitsev is probably not worried about generating much CF when he is away from Gardiner.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I would be a lot more comfortable if he was making about a million less... or his contract was a few years shorter.

It's not a terrible contract, mind you, but it's a tad rich for my liking.

I don't get what is wrong with the term... it ends at a good age (32) and it's not like it handcuffs us. The earliest we'd need his roster spot or money is when he'd have like 2 years left, and by then he would not be super difficult to just trade for value.

Money you can complain about, but it was market value. If not below considering he was essentially a UFA at the time. Look at what Alzner got at the time, and he was actually a bottom pairing guy. He also got quite a bit less than originally expected too.

 

[Dreakmur]

I would disagree with that.

4.5M is a fair value for a second pairing guy.

Some guys in the same price range; Matheson, Dumoulin, Murphy, Savard, Tanev, Scandella, Faulk, Bogosian, Stone, Kulikov.

Some slightly better, some slightly worse, some much worse. As the cap increases, it becomes an even cheaper deal to swallow.

You're not wrong.

I just think, with the cap, there are some spots in the line up where guys aren't really going to get what their worth, since you're better off over-paying in other spots.