Trade and Free Agency Thread - C'mon More Trades!

[SeaOfBlue]

Or enough time has passed that he actually implemented his vision...

I dont think Dubas ever got it wrong, I think fans were just quick to make assumptions.

Dubas added Bogosian over Ceci and upgraded Clifford with a more skilled version in Simmonds. Those were his "grit" adding moves until he traded for Foligno, who has played two games for us thus far.

Never mind the physical guys he has added in years past. He just won't sacrifice skill for grit, and I don't think he has really done that at any point (except with maybe Clifford, and he did not do that again).

If a 15 minute a night gritty bottom pairing RD who can PK is all this team needed to add in terms of physicality to be competitive vs. last year, then I think people are overrating the importance of physicality.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Or enough time has passed that he actually implemented his vision...

I dont think Dubas ever got it wrong, I think fans were just quick to make assumptions.

I think his vision is going to change a bit more again, the flat cap likely made things a bit more difficult, I thought he'd get more breathing room year over year but covid hit.

Pridham has been fantastic though.

Dubas added Bogosian over Ceci and upgraded Clifford with a more skilled version in Simmonds. Those were his "grit" adding moves until he traded for Foligno, who has played two games for us thus far.

Never mind the physical guys he has added in years past. He just won't sacrifice skill for grit, and I don't think he has really done that at any point (except with maybe Clifford, and he did not do that again).

If a 15 minute a night gritty bottom pairing RD who can PK is all this team needed to add in terms of physicality to be competitive vs. last year, then I think people are overrating the importance of physicality.

There was a pretty large segment of this fan base that disliked the Simmonds addition for some reason.

 

[ToneDog]

Dubas added Bogosian over Ceci and upgraded Clifford with a more skilled version in Simmonds. Those were his "grit" adding moves until he traded for Foligno, who has played two games for us thus far.

Never mind the physical guys he has added in years past. He just won't sacrifice skill for grit, and I don't think he has really done that at any point (except with maybe Clifford, and he did not do that again).

If a 15 minute a night gritty bottom pairing RD who can PK is all this team needed to add in terms of physicality to be competitive vs. last year, then I think people are overrating the importance of physicality.

The North is soft compared to who they will meet in round 3 if they get there. That is when we should see the impact of this year's additions of Foligno, Jumbo, Simmonds, Bogo and to a lesser extent Gally and Nash.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

There was a pretty large segment of this fan base that disliked the Simmonds addition for some reason.

The most dislike that I saw for him was the he was either a bit washed up or he was a bit overpaid at 1.5 mill (i.e. he should have been paid league minimum or 1 mill or something), which is not necessarily saying they did not want him at all.

Not many people complained about having him on a 4th line instead of Clifford. Most people actually liked it because Dubas actually added skill to his physicality, which is what was important about that signing.

 

[JKG33]

One popular poster on here legitimately argued that Petan is better than Bennett.

This board is too split on the physicality topic that it's impossible to discuss. One side overrates it and the other completely dismisses it. He would have been a great add in a deal based around Engvall +, which is what most of us were interested in. However, he returned the equivalent of TOR 2nd + Hirvonen (arguably slightly more). Way too rich.

That was a heck of a price Florida paid in a gamble. Looks great right now but it could prove to be bad in the long run. Granted Bennett has been great in the playoffs in his career.

Either way I wouldn't have made that gamble, and rather paid a bit more for someone more proven in Foligno.

Seriously? Two 2nds is too much for a young, physical, all situations forward thats an RFA? Who also comes up big come playoff time? Thats a nothing price for a gamble like that.

Instead you pay a 1st for a worse, older player who's only going to be here for a couple months at best. I don't hate the Foligno trade but its a no brainer which one trade is the better option, and its not the one Dubas made

 

[BertCorbeau]

Seriously? Two 2nds is too much for a young, physical, all situations forward thats an RFA? Who also comes up big come playoff time? Thats a nothing price for a gamble like that.

Instead you pay a 1st for a worse, older player who's only going to be here for a couple months at best. I don't hate the Foligno trade but its a no brainer which one trade is the better option, and its not the one Dubas made

In what world is Bennett better than Foligno?

 

[Cor]

Or enough time has passed that he actually implemented his vision...

I dont think Dubas ever got it wrong, I think fans were just quick to make assumptions.

Yeah. His first acquisition was Zach Hyman. He added Jake Muzzin in his first season. He reportedly wanted Clifford in that trade too.

Look at the team he built with the Marlies, and with the Soo, and anyone who thinks Dubas didn’t like grit or physicality before this year is out to lunch.

He’s just;
1. Has done a better job this year, or;
2. Has had more time to implement it.

He also wanted to acquire TJ Brodie instead of Tyson Barrie two off-seasons ago, as well.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Yeah. His first acquisition was Zach Hyman. He added Jake Muzzin in his first season. He reportedly wanted Clifford in that trade too.

Look at the team he built with the Marlies, and with the Soo, and anyone who thinks Dubas didn’t like grit or physicality before this year is out to lunch.

He’s just;
1. Has done a better job this year, or;
2. Has had more time to implement it.

He also wanted to acquire TJ Brodie instead of Tyson Barrie two off-seasons ago, as well.

I still would love Kadri on this team, Engvall's salary out and he fit.

Foligno-Matthews-Marner
Gally-JT-88
Soup-Kadri-Hyman
Spezza-Nash-Simmonds

So nice.

 

[stickty111]

Seriously? Two 2nds is too much for a young, physical, all situations forward thats an RFA? Who also comes up big come playoff time? Thats a nothing price for a gamble like that.

Instead you pay a 1st for a worse, older player who's only going to be here for a couple months at best. I don't hate the Foligno trade but its a no brainer which one trade is the better option, and its not the one Dubas made

 

[stickty111]

Yeah. His first acquisition was Zach Hyman. He added Jake Muzzin in his first season. He reportedly wanted Clifford in that trade too.

Look at the team he built with the Marlies, and with the Soo, and anyone who thinks Dubas didn’t like grit or physicality before this year is out to lunch.

He’s just;
1. Has done a better job this year, or;
2. Has had more time to implement it.

He also wanted to acquire TJ Brodie instead of Tyson Barrie two off-seasons ago, as well.

Also 2 of his 1st picks in the OHL were Jared McCann and Darnel Nurse. 2 big players with physicality.
A portion of this fanbase would make a statue of Dubas if he did a 4th line of Orr and McLaren again. Good thing he won't though.

 

[JKG33]

In what world is Bennett better than Foligno?

Um this one.. have ya'll seen him in Florida?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Um this one.. have ya'll seen him in Florida?

6 games in Florida doesn't erase his last 400 games in Calgary unfortunately

 

[JKG33]

6 games in Florida doesn't erase his last 400 games in Calgary unfortunately

I would hope a competent NHL gm could see Calgary is a dumpster fire that was holding Bennett back. At that low cost I can't believe the Leafs missed out. Even before he played a game for Florida I thought that was well worth the gamble, and a guy that'd be a perfect fit as this team's 3C or a top 6 LW

 

[stickty111]

Um this one.. have ya'll seen him in Florida?

6 games. Marchment was also a miss for us in his hot streak early on. He faltered pretty badly.

 

[stickty111]

I would hope a competent NHL gm could see Calgary is a dumpster fire that was holding Bennett back. At that low cost I can't believe the Leafs missed out. Even before he played a game for Florida I thought that was well worth the gamble, and a guy that'd be a perfect fit as this team's 3C or a top 6 LW

Bennett has never proven to be a top 6 player. We can't just excuse the player and blame all his struggles on the team. He wasn't good under 4 head coaches there.
People are just looking at hindsight now.
I rather have the much better player in Foligno.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I would hope a competent NHL gm could see Calgary is a dumpster fire that was holding Bennett back. At that low cost I can't believe the Leafs missed out. Even before he played a game for Florida I thought that was well worth the gamble, and a guy that'd be a perfect fit as this team's 3C or a top 6 LW

Two 2nds isn’t a low price though, it’s actually a closer equivalent in value to a late 1st which what the Leafs gave up.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Um this one.. have ya'll seen him in Florida?

Foligno’s got a much more reliable track record as being the same type of player Bennett wants to be - all situations, physical gritty player - with better offensive numbers to boot

 

[Menzinger]

I would hope a competent NHL gm could see Calgary is a dumpster fire that was holding Bennett back. At that low cost I can't believe the Leafs missed out. Even before he played a game for Florida I thought that was well worth the gamble, and a guy that'd be a perfect fit as this team's 3C or a top 6 LW

He's been mediocre his entire career though not just this season. He's played under some playoff bound teams in the past in Calgary - they haven't been bad every season. It's not a case of a normally good player having an off year

 

[Rielly4]

Parayko, Nurse, Jones, Ristolainen, Pulock, Klingberg all scheduled to be free agents the same year as Rielly. Maybe we just wait out his contract and weigh our options that off season for the best d man to sign, whether it be Rielly or someone else...Jones is definitely the best option as he is probably the 1st or 2nd best all around D in the league...Hedman being the only competitor IMO when you include both sides of the puck.

 

[seanlinden]

He's been mediocre his entire career though not just this season. He's played under some playoff bound teams in the past in Calgary - they haven't been bad every season. It's not a case of a normally good player having an off year

There's lots of reasons to dislike Sam Bennett...
- The fact that his best offensive year was his rookie year, 5 seasons ago.
- The fact that since his rookie year, his career high is 13 goals and 27 points.
- The fact that he's NEVER finished a season with a positive +/-, and is regularly amongst the worst players on the flames in this stat.

On the flip side, this is a guy who was a 4th overall draft pick, who carried the Kingston Frontenacs offensively in his draft year; and got shoehorned into a role in Calgary that maybe didn't give him all the tools to succeed.

There was good reason to believe / bet on a change of scenery helping Bennett... and Florida is obviously reaping the early returns on that.

From a Leaf perspective, it seems like a missed opportunity considering we really should have been shopping for a quality 3rd line C. That being said, it seems like Bennett would have been shoehorned into the same role in Toronto that he was in Calgary; not playing with skilled wingers and not getting offensive opportunities. Almost seems to be similar to Kerfoot in the sense that he's only going to produce if you put him into a top 6 role.

 

[ToneDog]

Bennett with 3 assists on 6 goals tonight. Yup he is bad.

 

[Menzinger]

There's lots of reasons to dislike Sam Bennett...
- The fact that his best offensive year was his rookie year, 5 seasons ago.
- The fact that since his rookie year, his career high is 13 goals and 27 points.
- The fact that he's NEVER finished a season with a positive +/-, and is regularly amongst the worst players on the flames in this stat.

On the flip side, this is a guy who was a 4th overall draft pick, who carried the Kingston Frontenacs offensively in his draft year; and got shoehorned into a role in Calgary that maybe didn't give him all the tools to succeed.

There was good reason to believe / bet on a change of scenery helping Bennett... and Florida is obviously reaping the early returns on that.

From a Leaf perspective, it seems like a missed opportunity considering we really should have been shopping for a quality 3rd line C. That being said, it seems like Bennett would have been shoehorned into the same role in Toronto that he was in Calgary; not playing with skilled wingers and not getting offensive opportunities. Almost seems to be similar to Kerfoot in the sense that he's only going to produce if you put him into a top 6 role.

I was actually fine with the Leafs picking him up as a reclamation project if they could get him for close to free.

The bigger issue really was he's not taking anyone out of the lineup other than maybe one of the guys on the 4th line - certainly nobody in the top 6, and his caphit would have prevented the Leafs from adding as many depth pieces as they did.

Edit: I also just saw he currently has a pdo of 120%!!!!

 

[Antropovsky]

I was actually fine with the Leafs picking him up as a reclamation project if they could get him for close to free.

The bigger issue really was he's not taking anyone out of the lineup other than maybe one of the guys on the 4th line - certainly nobody in the top 6, and his caphit would have prevented the Leafs from adding as many depth pieces as they did.

Edit: I also just saw he currently has a pdo of 120%!!!!

What is a pdo of 120%?

 

[Cor]

As impressive as 3 secondary assists versus the Nashville Predators is, i'm starting to think an on-ice sh% of nearly 13% and a on-ice sv% of 100% at 5v5, is likely unsustainable.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Haters gonna hate