Speculation: Trade and Free Agency Talk XLIII

[thestonedkoala]

I was wondering the same, or whether it included playoff games or something. No idea.

They are going to pro-rate. I made a post about it earlier, and the league has already said they are going to pro-rate it. I think it's like 48 games and 24 points. Be tight, especially the games played.

On that note; does anyone think that Guerin either (a) doesn't know what to do at the center spot or (b) is trying to find the magical unicorn of a center (doesn't have to pay to much, isn't an arse in the locker room and is young?)

 

[Bazeek]

They are going to pro-rate. I made a post about it earlier, and the league has already said they are going to pro-rate it. I think it's like 48 games and 24 points. Be tight, especially the games played.

On that note; does anyone think that Guerin either (a) doesn't know what to do at the center spot or (b) is trying to find the magical unicorn of a center (doesn't have to pay to much, isn't an arse in the locker room and is young?)

Aah, good call. Well even if it does hit the condition I think it was a good way to spend a 7th. He's got the expected flaws but has mostly hit the higher end of my expectations.

I'm think Guerin probably knows exactly what he wants at that position, I just worry that he's got a bit of tunnel vision. He shouldn't settle for less than what he wants if he's moving major pieces, but at some point there's got to be a reasonably priced upgrade on what he's got.

 

[57special]

Sometimes you go shopping for some produce at a grocery store, because you really want some of that item, but you don't buy, because the examples in the store are limp , wilted, and overpriced.

 

[Bazeek]

Sometimes you go shopping for some produce at a grocery store, because you really want some of that item, but you don't buy, because the examples in the store are limp , wilted, and overpriced.

Just don't die of scurvy.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I'm think Guerin probably knows exactly what he wants at that position, I just worry that he's got a bit of tunnel vision. He shouldn't settle for less than what he wants if he's moving major pieces, but at some point there's got to be a reasonably priced upgrade on what he's got.

I agree that it feels like he's got a bit of tunnel vision; I'll admit I wasn't a big fan of Trochek, especially at the price fans were talking about. However, even I can see that was a bit of a mistake not to take a flier on him and I admit that I was wrong. Guerin's flat out refusal to kick the tires on Bennett (trading a 2nd and a 2nd round prospect was a little high, but Bennett is still young). I'm also interested to see how Gaudette and Borgstrom do in Chicago.

 

[nickschultzfan]

It is also possible that Guerin is watching Suter's decline and realizes that if he doesn't play his cards right, he could end up with a blueline of Spurgeon and Brodin as a top pair, and a lot of question marks in the bottom-4.

That might be more important than getting a high-priced center to jump over Sturm, Rossi, and Khovanov next season.

 

[thestonedkoala]

It is also possible that Guerin is watching Suter's decline and realizes that if he doesn't play his cards right, he could end up with a blueline of Spurgeon and Brodin as a top pair, and a lot of question marks in the bottom-4.

That might be more important than getting a high-priced center to jump over Sturm, Rossi, and Khovanov next season.

Hunt and O'Rourke seem to be good prospects to have developing, they have a second first round pick and then there is Addison and Mennell developing. I think the defense is the last thing Guerin is really worried about.

There are so many question marks moving forward at center; Sturm seems limited as a bottom-6 center/forward. No idea how Covid-19 is going to affect Rossi moving forward and how much a year off the ice is going to effect him. Khovanov is - at this point - a massive long shot to make the NHL His career looks sort of like Sokolov at this point.

 

[Spurgeon]

What makes a center a center is their defensive play. I don’t think that line would score more goals then they would give up.

I don't remember Granlund's defensive game being that bad. Also, other than turnovers, Kap has looked pretty solid defensively. I feel like Zucc - Kap need a center that think the game with the same levels of offensive creativity rather than a defensive/two-way player like Danault or Ek. My worry with signing someone like Danault is that if he doesn't work on the PP, then we're pretty much banking on Rossi being the #1 PP guy.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Soucy - 15 points in 38 games is on pace for 32 over 82 and is making $2.75M for 2 more years after this one

Dumba - 17 points in 39 games is on pace for 35 points and makes $6.0M for 2 more years

They’re both 26

Dumba has a longer track record, but the last 2 years suggests that they’re closer than most thought, and at their respective price points for the duration of their contracts, maybe Soucy is more appealing to Seattle.

 

[57special]

Soucy - 15 points in 38 games is on pace for 32 over 82 and is making $2.75M for 2 more years after this one

Dumba - 17 points in 39 games is on pace for 35 points and makes $6.0M for 2 more years

They’re both 26

Dumba has a longer track record, but the last 2 years suggests that they’re closer than most thought, and at their respective price points for the duration of their contracts, maybe Soucy is more appealing to Seattle.

And maybe Soucy is more appealing to Guerin?

 

[GordieGallant]

Package Fiala with whatever to get a top line center who can win a effing faceoff.

 

[grN1g]

Package Fiala with whatever to get a top line center who can win a effing faceoff.

Sounds like making a bad move for the sake of a move.

 

[Spurgeon]

Sounds like making a bad move for the sake of a move.

Eh, with how much we’re going to be paying our wingers, redistributing cap from the wings to the center doesn’t seem like that egregious of an idea. Only condition would be that it’d absolutely have to be for a player that is considered to be a 1st line center.

 

[GuerinUp]

Hunt and O'Rourke seem to be good prospects to have developing, they have a second first round pick and then there is Addison and Mennell developing. I think the defense is the last thing Guerin is really worried about.

There are so many question marks moving forward at center; Sturm seems limited as a bottom-6 center/forward. No idea how Covid-19 is going to affect Rossi moving forward and how much a year off the ice is going to effect him. Khovanov is - at this point - a massive long shot to make the NHL His career looks sort of like Sokolov at this point.

i wouldnt be so quick to judge his time in russia or assume anything until he gets back over here. alot of factors could have gone into his year. and honestly everyones different. theoretically he couldve gotten in a disagreement that may have been warranted with the coach or gm in the khl, got sent down because of the disagreement, and then said F it and decided to mail it in for the year because of it. its not like he did bad in the vhl. (not saying this is the case, but it wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility)

 

[nickschultzfan]

i wouldnt be so quick to judge his time in russia or assume anything until he gets back over here. alot of factors could have gone into his year. and honestly everyones different. theoretically he couldve gotten in a disagreement that may have been warranted with the coach or gm in the khl, got sent down because of the disagreement, and then said F it and decided to mail it in for the year because of it. its not like he did bad in the vhl. (not saying this is the case, but it wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility)

VHL is a men's league and Khovanov came straight from junior and had a fine season.

 

[thestonedkoala]

i wouldnt be so quick to judge his time in russia or assume anything until he gets back over here. alot of factors could have gone into his year. and honestly everyones different. theoretically he couldve gotten in a disagreement that may have been warranted with the coach or gm in the khl, got sent down because of the disagreement, and then said F it and decided to mail it in for the year because of it. its not like he did bad in the vhl. (not saying this is the case, but it wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility)

That's one of the issues with Khovanov and it's a lost year. They were hoping he'd develop a bit in Russia, but it appears that he didn't - or at the most, a minimal amount. Khovanov has always been known as a bit of a head case, both in Russia and in the CHL. Torchette has said as much about him and given his suspension and other factors that fans have said, I wouldn't put it past him. He's what? 21 now? He'll be what? 22-23 before even sniffing the NHL depending on how he does in the AHL? You'd expect him to be a bit like Kaprizov where you see developments in his game at this point.

VHL is a men's league and Khovanov came straight from junior and had a fine season.

VHL isn't a men's league. It's a development league for the KHL.

 

[nickschultzfan]

That's one of the issues with Khovanov and it's a lost year. They were hoping he'd develop a bit in Russia, but it appears that he didn't - or at the most, a minimal amount. Khovanov has always been known as a bit of a head case, both in Russia and in the CHL. Torchette has said as much about him and given his suspension and other factors that fans have said, I wouldn't put it past him. He's what? 21 now? He'll be what? 22-23 before even sniffing the NHL depending on how he does in the AHL? You'd expect him to be a bit like Kaprizov where you see developments in his game at this point.



VHL isn't a men's league. It's a development league for the KHL.

VHL is to KHL what the AHL is to the NHL. Both are professional leagues.

Average age in VHL is 23.7.
Average age in AHL is 23.9.

Khovanov was 20 for most of this last season. He just turned 21.

VHL competition is not on same level on AHL, but it is better than the NCAA and certainty better than the CHL.

 

[GuerinUp]

That's one of the issues with Khovanov and it's a lost year. They were hoping he'd develop a bit in Russia, but it appears that he didn't - or at the most, a minimal amount. Khovanov has always been known as a bit of a head case, both in Russia and in the CHL. Torchette has said as much about him and given his suspension and other factors that fans have said, I wouldn't put it past him. He's what? 21 now? He'll be what? 22-23 before even sniffing the NHL depending on how he does in the AHL? You'd expect him to be a bit like Kaprizov where you see developments in his game at this point.



VHL isn't a men's league. It's a development league for the KHL.

so is a guy that people love on this team, Kevin Fiala.

I wouldnt consider this a lost year, he played hockey and didnt sit which couldve happened if he stayed here. He has skill, and i wouldnt write him off yet. hell probably come to the ahl next year and prove himself.

 

[nickschultzfan]

With Pens' 1st in his pocket, I wonder if Guerin is going to offer a 3rd or 2nd to Seattle to take Soucy. Have a hard time seeing Seattle turning that down just to grab Dumba or Greenway or Talbot.

 

[thestonedkoala]

so is a guy that people love on this team, Kevin Fiala.

I wouldnt consider this a lost year, he played hockey and didnt sit which couldve happened if he stayed here. He has skill, and i wouldnt write him off yet. hell probably come to the ahl next year and prove himself.

Fiala isn't the head case that Khovanov is; Khovanov has been described as difficult to coach, and very self centered. Fiala has never had the issues that Khovanov has had.

I consider this a lost year, because he was supposed to be developing in the KHL, not the VHL. Furthermore, he didn't even come over when the league started back up again (which I fault the Wild for). Even O'Rourke and Beckman got some quality time in.

 

[MuckOG]

Fiala isn't the head case that Khovanov is; Khovanov has been described as difficult to coach, and very self centered. Fiala has never had the issues that Khovanov has had.

I consider this a lost year, because he was supposed to be developing in the KHL, not the VHL. Furthermore, he didn't even come over when the league started back up again (which I fault the Wild for). Even O'Rourke and Beckman got some quality time in.

Fiala fit that description very much early in his career. He was sent down to the AHL multiple times for long stretches because of these things.

I don't blame Khovanov for wanting to play in Russia this season because the AHL season was very much in doubt. I would expect that he will be advised that it will be in his best interest to come back to the States and play next season in Iowa.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Fiala fit that description very much early in his career. He was sent down to the AHL multiple times for long stretches because of these things.

I don't blame Khovanov for wanting to play in Russia this season because the AHL season was very much in doubt. I would expect that he will be advised that it will be in his best interest to come back to the States and play next season in Iowa.

I honestly don't recall Fiala having any of the issues that Khovanov is known for (that includes biting other players). I know he's been benched because his lack of defensive work has been an issue, but I have never heard of any major attitude issues that Fiala has had. Hell, he's the son of a coach - so? I also don't recall them saying he had an attitude problem when sending him to the AHL, only that he needed to work on his game.

He has to come back next season, but I don't see Khovanov as much of a prospect at the moment. He's fine developing like Johansson, but if he doesn't work out - he doesn't work out. I'd say that Beckman, Firstov, and Nuts have surpassed him in terms of development and play.

 

[Bazeek]

I honestly don't recall Fiala having any of the issues that Khovanov is known for (that includes biting other players). I know he's been benched because his lack of defensive work has been an issue, but I have never heard of any major attitude issues that Fiala has had. Hell, he's the son of a coach - so? I also don't recall them saying he had an attitude problem when sending him to the AHL, only that he needed to work on his game.

He has to come back next season, but I don't see Khovanov as much of a prospect at the moment. He's fine developing like Johansson, but if he doesn't work out - he doesn't work out. I'd say that Beckman, Firstov, and Nuts have surpassed him in terms of development and play.

I mean, he did get into it with Arvidsson that one time at practice. I'm not sure how much that drove rumors of an "attitude problem," but there was definitely some of that coming out of Nashville.

I wouldn't write off Khovanov until he has a chance to play in North America again, assuming he does so. But I agree that this last season shouldn't have anyone penciling him onto an NHL roster down the line. There are plenty of guys that put up gobs of points in the Q and never amount to much outside of it.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Khovanov may be the first line center in Iowa by mid-season next year.

 

[GuerinUp]

I mean, he did get into it with Arvidsson that one time at practice. I'm not sure how much that drove rumors of an "attitude problem," but there was definitely some of that coming out of Nashville.

I wouldn't write off Khovanov until he has a chance to play in North America again, assuming he does so. But I agree that this last season shouldn't have anyone penciling him onto an NHL roster down the line. There are plenty of guys that put up gobs of points in the Q and never amount to much outside of it.

thats kinda the jest i was putting into my posts, dont write him off yet. he could rebound back in NA.