OT: Toronto Blue Jays/MLB Talk

[Anglesmith]

It's all ogre.

The Jays did have their fate in their own hands at one point, so can't be too mad.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

Pain

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

So much pain.

91 wins and +183 run differential and not even making the 2nd wildcard. Life in the AL East I suppose.

 

[DFF]

All the games Montoyo lost earlier

 

[Zirakzigil]

Tough end on a good season.

Hope tight pants and Semien are back next year.

 

[Anglesmith]

Tough end on a good season.

Hope tight pants and Semien are back next year.

All indications are that Semien is gone. I think Ray can be re-signed.

I want to see the Jays make one big splash for either 2nd or third in the off-season. If you can do that, you have to like their chances next year.

 

[Darth Vladar]

Well I'll see y'all again this time next year lol

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Tough end on a good season.

Hope tight pants and Semien are back next year.

I'd be shocked if Semien is back.
Ray should be the focus and then find more depth for lineup and bullpen.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Semien is not gone until he’s gone. There is a chance. And from the sounds of it he enjoyed it here. Let’s see if Rogers cheaps out or not.

 

[Anglesmith]

Semien is not gone until he’s gone. There is a chance. And from the sounds of it he enjoyed it here. Let’s see if Rogers cheaps out or not.

I just hope it doesn't come down to Semien getting a fat contract or all of the core getting extended.

 

[Mazatt]

Y'know, what can you really do. Jays had opportunities upon opportunities (like having the Cy Young winner on the mound agains the team in front of them) to control their own destiny and lost, while other teams, especially today, showed their ability to win.

Going into next season, things aren't really dire though. Everyone notable other than Semien, Ray, and maybe Matz are signed through into next season already. The rotation already has an ace in Berrios, backed up by Manoah and Ryu (who theoretically wasn't bad due to a lack of sticky stuff, just couldn't get velo up to where it needed to be). The bullpen is already built off of Romano, Mayza, Cimber, Richards, and Merryweather (assuming Pearson is between starter and bullpen to start the season) who are coming back, and every starting position beyond 3rd/2nd is filled, and that's without counting Espinal/Biggio filling one of those spots as super utility guys.


The Jays shopping list is very limited. The major thing that kept them from being a true contender this year was a shitty bullpen through the middle drudges in the season, and the guys that fixed that are still around today (ofc there is volatility there, but it's a successful looking makeup). The Jays need 2 starters, a couple bullpen pieces, and a big middle-top of the order power bat. Of course some of those thing sare harder to get than others, but with the loaded middle-infield market and a somewhat solid starters market, there's absolutely zero reasons the Jays won't be playoff contenders next season.

 

[Body Checker]

Jays are solid contenders already for next year. Not sure it’s wise to overpay Ray and Semien for typical career years with free agency pending. Lots of value out there to replace those guys and then some.

 

[Mazatt]

Jays are solid contenders already for next year. Not sure it’s wise to overpay Ray and Semien for typical career years with free agency pending. Lots of value out there to replace those guys and then some.

Honestly, I am a bit concerned about the prospect of giving a 2 pitch pitcher a big pay day and expecting a Cy season out of him every year

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

The Jays should absolutely bring back Ray. Look at the elite teams every year, they always a starting rotation that is loaded. That was probably the biggest reason for the Jays huge surge at the end. Ray being an absolute beast, along with the emergence of Monoah and adding Berrios. I really feel like it’s important to bring back Semien as well, but they do have an elite offence already. I think it’s realistic to think Vladdy & Bichette could give you even more next year. Hernandez is a stud too, I think you try and sign Semien and make him a legit offer and sell that the Jays are a contender. If you can’t do it, there’s many elite available SS’s this off-season you can sign, maybe you look at Trevor Story and see if he can play 2B.

 

[Zirakzigil]

The Jays should absolutely bring back Ray. Look at the elite teams every year, they always a starting rotation that is loaded. That was probably the biggest reason for the Jays huge surge at the end. Ray being an absolute beast, along with the emergence of Monoah and adding Berrios. I really feel like it’s important to bring back Semien as well, but they do have an elite offence already. I think it’s realistic to think Vladdy & Bichette could give you even more next year. Hernandez is a stud too, I think you try and sign Semien and make him a legit offer and sell that the Jays are a contender. If you can’t do it, there’s many elite available SS’s this off-season you can sign, maybe you look at Trevor Story and see if he can play 2B.

"We had the best offence in the major leagues, and in my mind, the best starting pitching in the game. Who doesn't want to be a part of that?" Semien said after Sunday's win when asked about his future. "There's little pieces to add to get to the next level. I'm one of them. I think our bullpen is another one. We also have young, young guys getting better.

Marcus Semien Toronto Blue Jays free agency - TSN.ca

Im not writing him off yet. Sounds like hes very open to staying and loved his time here. I know people will say its lip service and some of it definitely is, but you dont have to praise the team and say you are a piece to get them over the top like he did.

 

[Body Checker]

Corey Seager would be a better fit on this team than Semien. Bichette moves to 2nd. Seager #2 hitter. Also sign Descalfini as #3 and promote Pearson. Move Grichuk for a better contact hitter like David Peralta. Add Leury Garcia as multipositional back up. Keep the three catchers. Biggio at 3rd. Bullpen just needs to stay healthy. Let Ray and Semien walk. Don’t overpay for career years.

 

[Mazatt]

Marcus Semien Toronto Blue Jays free agency - TSN.ca

Im not writing him off yet. Sounds like hes very open to staying and loved his time here. I know people will say its lip service and some of it definitely is, but you dont have to praise the team and say you are a piece to get them over the top like he did.

He's been very complimentary of the city, the facilities provided by the team, etc. Hes also a huge dugout guy it seems, or at least plays a part in the connectivity in the dugout given how torn up Bo was talking about him in the exit interviews. He seems to love every single thing about the city and the team. If the Jays can give him an offer early to entice him away from FA for like, 4-5 years I'd take that all day.

My biggest worry is if he goes to free agency, and a team like San Francisco goes after him and says "Hey, we just won 100+ games, we have a SS/2B spot open, and wouldn't you look at it, you're right back in your home state. Bring your family down and let's see how they like it here" and that sways him. It would be real... hurtful if another Toronto athlete had one absolutely brilliant single season with the team just to get swayed to return to California

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

In regards to Semien wanting to play closer to home, Giants are really the only team I'd be worried about. They do have Crawford at SS but upgrading on La Stella would be huge.

A's can't afford him, Dodgers already have Turner and Muncy, even though Seager and Taylor are both FA's, Padres already have Machado, Tatis, Cronenworth and a ton of money tied up elsewhere on the team, I don't think the Angels would because they have way bigger needs in their rotation (I think they'll be in on Ray and/or Matz) and need to resign Ohtani. But the Angels do hand out stupid contracts so who knows.

In all honesty, I'd be scared the Yankees go after him. Torres is a bum and Urshela can't hit. Maybe LeMahieu goes to 2nd, but they still have a hole at SS.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Corey Seager would be a better fit on this team than Semien. Bichette moves to 2nd. Seager #2 hitter. Also sign Descalfini as #3 and promote Pearson. Move Grichuk for a better contact hitter like David Peralta. Add Leury Garcia as multipositional back up. Keep the three catchers. Biggio at 3rd. Bullpen just needs to stay healthy. Let Ray and Semien walk. Don’t overpay for career years.

That is super encouraging!

 

[Zirakzigil]

He's been very complimentary of the city, the facilities provided by the team, etc. Hes also a huge dugout guy it seems, or at least plays a part in the connectivity in the dugout given how torn up Bo was talking about him in the exit interviews. He seems to love every single thing about the city and the team. If the Jays can give him an offer early to entice him away from FA for like, 4-5 years I'd take that all day.

My biggest worry is if he goes to free agency, and a team like San Francisco goes after him and says "Hey, we just won 100+ games, we have a SS/2B spot open, and wouldn't you look at it, you're right back in your home state. Bring your family down and let's see how they like it here" and that sways him. It would be real... hurtful if another Toronto athlete had one absolutely brilliant single season with the team just to get swayed to return to California

Thats been one of my biggest concerns. Yes, you can possibly find another 2B to replace him. But the A's players were very clear about how much of a huge hole he left, as both a player on the field and a glue guy on the team. I dont think that can be understated, especially with how young a team the Jays are. Id gladly give an extra million or two or an extra year to keep that.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Yeah if we lose out on Semien, I’d gladly take Seager. He would be huge.

 

[JPeeper]

Bullpen improved down the line, but continue to build on it. Jays make the playoffs if they don't blow a f***load of games when they have multiple run leads late in games.

183+ run differential and not making the playoffs is pretty pathetic. I also think Montoyo should go to, I don't find he adds anything to the roster and I blame him for a lot of the bullpen losses/keeping guys in too long when they're clearly done.

 

[Anglesmith]

I'd be hesitant to point fingers at Montoyo. We only ever notice managers when they make mistakes, but the Jays had an outstanding dugout vibe throughout the year and we have no idea how much he played into that.

 

[Mazatt]

There are plenty of things to blame Montoyo for. The bullpen in the drudges of the summer is not one of those things. Starting Jarrod Dyson and Reese Maguire in must win, late September baseball, that's something I find inexcuseable. Letting Ryu try and work things out during his coldest stretch in high must-wing ames was questionable. But when Montoyo had to pick between Carl Edwards Jr, Tyler Chatwood, Brad Hand, or Trent Thornton because the Front Office's gambles had all went horribly ahead of acquiring Richards and Cimber, and he chooses Chatwood and it backfires, I can't blame him. He had absolutely nothing to work with.


I also think the clubhouse aspect is hard to grasp and I think the vibe Montoyo brought in keeping the team loose is compltetly understated. How many of those Baltimore games or the Oakland comeback with a Semien walk off do the Jays win if they havesome hard-ass manager being super hard on them, compared to the wins they got by keeping it easy and a low pressure situation no matter the situation.

If you're looking at Montoyo as someone to be fired, you have to consider (and most importantly) do the players like him? And if they do, does he demonstrably drag the team down to the point that he routinely costs them games? I'd say he's a net positive influence, so I have no problems keeping him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

There are plenty of things to blame Montoyo for. The bullpen in the drudges of the summer is not one of those things. Starting Jarrod Dyson and Reese Maguire in must win, late September baseball, that's something I find inexcuseable. Letting Ryu try and work things out during his coldest stretch in high must-wing ames was questionable. But when Montoyo had to pick between Carl Edwards Jr, Tyler Chatwood, Brad Hand, or Trent Thornton because the Front Office's gambles had all went horribly ahead of acquiring Richards and Cimber, and he chooses Chatwood and it backfires, I can't blame him. He had absolutely nothing to work with.


I also think the clubhouse aspect is hard to grasp and I think the vibe Montoyo brought in keeping the team loose is compltetly understated. How many of those Baltimore games or the Oakland comeback with a Semien walk off do the Jays win if they havesome hard-ass manager being super hard on them, compared to the wins they got by keeping it easy and a low pressure situation no matter the situation.

If you're looking at Montoyo as someone to be fired, you have to consider (and most importantly) do the players like him? And if they do, does he demonstrably drag the team down to the point that he routinely costs them games? I'd say he's a net positive influence, so I have no problems keeping him.

We have a baseball league you should do with us next season.