Confirmed with Link: [TOR/STL] TOR acquires RD Jordan Schmaltz from STL for LD Andreas Borgman

[The Iceman]

Absolutely nothing wrong with this trade.

Borgman was lost on the LHD depth chart and was not going to slot in at any time. Either he was a Marlie or he was sitting.

We traded an un-utilized asset into a 25 year old, former 1st round RHD, a position that we are very weak at, to ideally slot into our 3rd pairing RHD, or be our 7th defender. It was a straight 1 to 1 trade.

No one is giving Schmaltz top pairing minutes or expectations. He is a viable option for protected minutes, and can give us the option of keeping Liljegren down with the Marlie's to over-cook, if that is what we feel will benefit the team long term.

That people are on here moaning and groaning just tells me that a lot of people really don't have a clue. The hot takes are ridiculous, and I really question whether a lot of these posters are actually Leaf fans or are just being shift-disturbers in here.

If you can never find anything positive and every post you make is pissing and moaning, do everyone a favor and cheer for another team. Reading the same crap gets boring and I've finally started blocking certain posters who always have the same crap to say, just in regards to every different thing.

It's quite pathetic, really.

And Schmaltz college coach that helped make him a 1st round pick is the teams new D coach...like it

 

[SeaOfBlue]

And Schmaltz college coach that helped make him a 1st round pick is the teams new D coach...like it

He was a 1st round pick before he went to North Dakota. His play in the NCAA was actually not even that great for an offensive defenseman, so he continuously went downhill from his D-1 year until now where he essentially played like an ECHLer.

The only bright spot is that he has the prestige and perhaps some kind of skill set that could be moulded into something. He also played on the worst team in the NHL for the first half of the year (STL) only to get sent down and play on the worst team in the AHL (San Antonio). San Antonio was a joke last year (the Growlers probably would have been a better team in the AHL last year) and really nobody looked good outside of Jordan Binnington (and we know how that went in the end), so here's hoping going through a rigorous training program with a former coach can help regain some of the spark that made him good in the first place and that his poor years were more of a product of terrible teams.

He needs a lot of work all over the place though and he's turning 26, so I don't like his chances of becoming anything. He'll probably just be Dermott's replacement and then rarely play again after that. I think Harpur could end up beating him out for a top 6 spot.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Let's look at the lineups.

Now:
Rielly-Ceci
Muzzin-Barrie
Dermott-X

Then:
Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Dermott

I'm not as high on Barrie as many others, so I think him instead of Gardiner is a rather lateral move. Ceci replacing Zaitsev is a lateral move. What we are left with is some of our depth pieces instead of Hainsey. That's looking like a downgrade. So just based on talent, I think we moved laterally. Any improvement is probably not significant, so I'm kind of with you here. If we run with both Ceci and Harpur, we might actually be worse.

However, I think the on-ice impact might be improved. For one, we replaced our #3LD for a #1RD, which means a redistribution of ice time towards better d-men. We no longer have our three worst d-men sharing half the ice time, we can give a large portion of that to Barrie. That makes a difference. We're also taking a step towards being a much harder team to read on the breakout, which has been an achilles heel for us. That helps too.

I believe Barrie over Gardiner is an upgrade on handedness alone as well, it will help balance the d-core more.

Dermott being able to come back from injury and improve into a top 4 caliber d-man seems to be a bit of a key factor in this

 

[57 Years No Cup]

we have Zaitsev/Hainsey/Gardiner out and Barrie/Ceci in ... is our D better?

Yes. Let's see if the the Best Coach in the World™ deploys them properly.

 

[justafan22]

Absolutely nothing wrong with this trade.

Borgman was lost on the LHD depth chart and was not going to slot in at any time. Either he was a Marlie or he was sitting.

We traded an un-utilized asset into a 25 year old, former 1st round RHD, a position that we are very weak at, to ideally slot into our 3rd pairing RHD, or be our 7th defender. It was a straight 1 to 1 trade.

No one is giving Schmaltz top pairing minutes or expectations. He is a viable option for protected minutes, and can give us the option of keeping Liljegren down with the Marlie's to over-cook, if that is what we feel will benefit the team long term.

That people are on here moaning and groaning just tells me that a lot of people really don't have a clue. The hot takes are ridiculous, and I really question whether a lot of these posters are actually Leaf fans or are just being shift-disturbers in here.

If you can never find anything positive and every post you make is pissing and moaning, do everyone a favor and cheer for another team. Reading the same crap gets boring and I've finally started blocking certain posters who always have the same crap to say, just in regards to every different thing.

It's quite pathetic, really.

People overvalue their own prospects.

Borgman since the injury is nothing special. He's likely another classic tweener dman, which this team has.

Schmaltz is one too, but at least he's a RHD.

 

[ULF_55]

People overvalue their own prospects.

Borgman since the injury is nothing special. He's likely another classic tweener dman, which this team has.

Schmaltz is one too, but at least he's a RHD.

Players are worse once they are traded away.

Oh, that's new ... nice.

See it continuously, nothing changes.

I would have liked to see Borgman back in the NHL, if only because he is willing to engage. Leafs have had little of that on the defense, and I keep reading the new guys who do shouldn't be in the NHL anyway.

Nothing changes, except the numbers and names.

 

[Mess]

Leafs are not having a lot of success with their "Free Wallets" as players like Rosen, Borgman, Ozhiganov etc etc pick the Leafs to sign with but Toronto hasn't been that much of an opportunity as they thought these players like Rosen, Borgman now being dealt away before they really got any chance.

I wonder if this will effect future recruitment success, or if these were simply short-term gap fillers by design as Leafs own drafting and developing take over, so there really isn't as great a need to turn and look under every stone.

 

[Bluelines]

Would you put up a fight arguing that the sky is blue?

The sky is not blue, it only appears to be blue due to the white light from the sun being scattered through our atmosphere, the blue light is scattered more than other colors because it travels as shorter, smaller waves. So what you are seeing is blue light waves not a blue sky.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I wonder if Dubas' moves this offseason is going to deter young notable European Free Agents.

Last few notable European Free Agents:

Zaitsev: Traded 3 years later
Borgman: Traded two years later
Rosen: Traded two years later
Ozhiganov: Leaves back for KHL 1 year later
Lindholm: Traded 6 months later

This all happened in essentially 1 year of Dubas being GM... Four of these happened after we lured Mikheyev and Kivihalme.

We traded them to give them a chance at the NHL. Rosen had a good chance, but it's better in Colorado. Same with Borgman in STL, and Lindholm in WPG. It's not like we sent them to bad teams either; all of them were playoff teams.

Then for Zaitsev, we satisfied his own request. Dubas didn't have to trade him, but Zaitsev wanted out.

As long as the opportunity is there and we continue to be an amazing team, players will come to us. They know that we have the best development program out there, and that if they don't make it to the Leafs, then there is a great chance they'll make it somewhere else that is likely just as good. I don't think they're complaining about that at all.

 

[TML Dynasty]

Leafs are not having a lot of success with their "Free Wallets" as players like Rosen, Borgman, Ozhiganov etc etc pick the Leafs to sign with but Toronto hasn't been that much of an opportunity as they thought these players like Rosen, Borgman now being dealt away before they really got any chance.

I wonder if this will effect future recruitment success, or if these were simply short-term gap fillers by design as Leafs own drafting and developing take over, so there really isn't as great a need to turn and look under every stone.

I look at it like they were stuck behind our players here so we’re giving them a chance elsewhere. We have Z a big contract then traded when he asked. Not sure we have a great rep but at least we aren’t screwing them over? Come, take advantage of a high class organization in every way and start your nhl career..... Maybe?

 

[Bluelines]

Leafs are not having a lot of success with their "Free Wallets" as players like Rosen, Borgman, Ozhiganov etc etc pick the Leafs to sign with but Toronto hasn't been that much of an opportunity as they thought these players like Rosen, Borgman now being dealt away before they really got any chance.

I wonder if this will effect future recruitment success, or if these were simply short-term gap fillers by design as Leafs own drafting and developing take over, so there really isn't as great a need to turn and look under every stone.

Who does have success on a consistent basis with free wallets? There is a reason why they are free.

 

[Macallan18]

The sky is not blue, it only appears to be blue due to the white light from the sun being scattered through our atmosphere, the blue light is scattered more than other colors because it travels as shorter, smaller waves. So what you are seeing is blue light waves not a blue sky.

If this was true the sky would appear violet, which has a shorter wave length.
Earth's sky is blueish violet. We perceive it as light blue because of our eyes.

 

[Bluelines]

If this was true the sky would appear violet, which has a shorter wave length.
Earth's sky is blueish violet. We perceive it as light blue because of our eyes.

Nope. Why Is the Sky Blue? | NASA Space Place – NASA Science for Kids NASA says so..

 

[Mess]

Who does have success on a consistent basis with free wallets? There is a reason why they are free.

I agree previously undrafted UFA signings do not have a lot of NHL success. Strong drafting teams don't need to rely on these types of long shots.

I was however looking at this from the players perspective that pick to sign with Toronto, but end up being traded before they get their opportunity.. Will this impact future "free wallet' signing success and will that matter?

Leafs ended up signing players like Rosen and Borgman but ended up trading them away, but were viewed basically as stop gap filler until Liljegren and Sandin your own drafted and developed players are drafted.

I like this trade, based on the fact that Schmaltz (2012 round 1 #25 overall by St. Louis Blues) was drafted in the 1st round as potential and will hopefully supplant Justin Holl as that #6/7 guy. So I don't see this as just Borgman "free wallet" for Schmaltz but also replacing Holl on the depth chart as a RHD.

 

[Cor]

Nikita Zaitsev got a fat contract,

Calle Rosen developed with us and now will be in the NHL.

Borgman has a better chance in STL than here.

Ozhiganov was fine as a bottom pairing guy IMO, but got pushed out when we acquired Jake Muzzin. Guy seemed to want to go home though, as he signed pretty quickly after the season ended (or it came out that he committed to going back) but I’m sure if he wanted to, his agent could’ve got him another NHL deal.

Ilya Mikheyev will likely get a strong chance. Babcock seems to really like him

 

[justafan22]

Nikita Zaitsev got a fat contract,

Calle Rosen developed with us and now will be in the NHL.

Borgman has a better chance in STL than here.

Ozhiganov was fine as a bottom pairing guy IMO, but got pushed out when we acquired Jake Muzzin. Guy seemed to want to go home though, as he signed pretty quickly after the season ended (or it came out that he committed to going back) but I’m sure if he wanted to, his agent could’ve got him another NHL deal.

Ilya Mikheyev will likely get a strong chance. Babcock seems to really like him

Players will go where the money is.

 

[Macallan18]

Nope. Why Is the Sky Blue? | NASA Space Place – NASA Science for Kids NASA says so..

perfect. you quote an article for children.
That pretty much sums you up.

 

[JEI]

Leafs are not having a lot of success with their "Free Wallets" as players like Rosen, Borgman, Ozhiganov etc etc pick the Leafs to sign with but Toronto hasn't been that much of an opportunity as they thought these players like Rosen, Borgman now being dealt away before they really got any chance.

I wonder if this will effect future recruitment success, or if these were simply short-term gap fillers by design as Leafs own drafting and developing take over, so there really isn't as great a need to turn and look under every stone.

I'd argue any free wallet that brings in another asset is a success. When we sign or draft prospects you one day hope they can play for you, but you hope they can play in the NHL (thus an asset).

I don't think the recruitment process will be effected at all. These guys signed with Toronto for a variety of reasons. Some I'm sure wanted to be Leafs, others probably saw an easier avenue to the NHL (maybe more lucrative in some cases). I don't think they look at Toronto and go "I was swindled". It's situational for every player.

Borgman got 40+ games with the club, but also had injuries that limited his development and potential to get into the lineup. Ozighanov had 50 games, then played himself off the roster. Rosen was almost a lock to start the season here until he was part of a trade to land a top-d man. Trevor Moore looks like he'll be a more consistent NHLer. Zaitsev earned himself a long-term, big dollar contract. Kontiola's of the world fizzled out quicker. Don't forget, other teams saw value in these players too and traded for them in some cases. It's not like all these players went back to Europe. Some don't work out, sure, but others have turned into assets.

 

[Fogelhund]

I agree previously undrafted UFA signings do not have a lot of NHL success. Strong drafting teams don't need to rely on these types of long shots.

I was however looking at this from the players perspective that pick to sign with Toronto, but end up being traded before they get their opportunity.. .

Before they got their opportunity?

They both were in our system for two full years. Borgman played 48 games for the Leafs, Rosen just 8. Borgman was demoted, and never EARNED his way back up. I don't think he was ever going to be in the plans. Rosen, likely would have found his way to the Leafs at some point, but ended up being moved. I highly doubt that either player is upset with their treatment with the Leafs, and they both had opportunities to shine within the organization. Rosen's development was quite good with the Marlies, and he was in line for a NHL job... he might get one this year. Borgman didn't seem to take that next step, and even regressed some.

Sooner or later, one of these guys works out for the big club, and if not, improves the Marlies along the way. Success is earned, not given.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Leafs are not having a lot of success with their "Free Wallets" as players like Rosen, Borgman, Ozhiganov etc etc pick the Leafs to sign with but Toronto hasn't been that much of an opportunity as they thought these players like Rosen, Borgman now being dealt away before they really got any chance.

I wonder if this will effect future recruitment success, or if these were simply short-term gap fillers by design as Leafs own drafting and developing take over, so there really isn't as great a need to turn and look under every stone.

Zaitsev would have been the perfect home run free wallet signing for our 3rd pair if only we didn't sign him to that ridiculous contract.

 

[Morgs]

Let's look at the lineups.

Now:
Rielly-Ceci
Muzzin-Barrie
Dermott-X

Then:
Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Gardiner-Dermott

I'm not as high on Barrie as many others, so I think him instead of Gardiner is a rather lateral move. Ceci replacing Zaitsev is a lateral move. What we are left with is some of our depth pieces instead of Hainsey. That's looking like a downgrade. So just based on talent, I think we moved laterally. Any improvement is probably not significant, so I'm kind of with you here. If we run with both Ceci and Harpur, we might actually be worse.

However, I think the on-ice impact might be improved. For one, we replaced our #3LD for a #1RD, which means a redistribution of ice time towards better d-men. We no longer have our three worst d-men sharing half the ice time, we can give a large portion of that to Barrie. That makes a difference. We're also taking a step towards being a much harder team to read on the breakout, which has been an achilles heel for us. That helps too.

Completely agree. I don't think it's any better when looking strictly at the overall player impact as a healthy Gardiner would quite clearly be the second best defenseman on this roster, and I don't think Barrie is even more impactful than Muzzin.

But, as you said on-ice impact should improve because Barrie isn't replacing Gardener's minutes, he's replacing Hainsey's/Zaitsev's which is a massive upgrade. I'd even argue there's more to be excited about with Ceci instead of Zaitsev if he's used properly.

But, it really does come down to if we're playing Harpur or not as he's arguably the worst player in this organization. He has the potential to have a "bad-Polak" type impact but even worse to the bottom pair where we only can play two pairings.

I'd like to see Kivihalme/Marincin-Schmaltz start on the bottom pair, and Dermott replace whoever is playing worse until he can hopefully take Ceci out of the top-4.

 

[sxvnert]

Normal part of this groups mo. Unlike previous regimes, if the prospect isn't showing improvement year after year they move him.
I expect Timashov to be next on the trade list even if its a lateral move. His point totals have increased but his overall game hasn't kept pace.

 

[ottomaddox]

My first reaction to this trade was:

"Borgman to STL? Oh he's going to do well over there." Then I took a min. to think about it. He'll never play in front of Rielly, Muzzin, or Dermott. He can be a #7, but still challenged by others who have a similar skill set.

I wish him well.

 

[Bluelines]

perfect. you quote an article for children.
That pretty much sums you up.

Considering your quoted response, a child like explanation is probably apt for you. Snippy much?

 

[Mr Hockey]

Yes. Let's see if the Best Coach in the World™ deploys them properly.

Im, thinking the new assistant will be deploying them, were they not deployed correctly last season, did DJ f*** it up?