deletethis
Registered User
I'd rather wait to either watch the player myself or let Jeffler tell me what to think.
He may still be on a late winter sabbatical from social media.
I'd rather wait to either watch the player myself or let Jeffler tell me what to think.
Former Leaf Nikita Zaitsev also 26 & undrafted at the time was 2 X KHL First All-Star Team defenseman in 2014-15 and 2015-16 as well as a member of his National team before joining the Leafs in 2016, as a KHL free agent signing.
I wonder how Lehtonen compares to Zaitsev in terms of NHL impact and expectations in year #1?
Nikita Zaitsev - Year #1 .. 2016-17 - Toronto Maple Leafs - NHL .. 82 games 4 goals 32 assists 36 points
Higher or Lower?
As a LHD he is not expected to play ahead of Rielly or Muzzin on the left side, so he will be battling Dermott (RFA) and Sandin for that 3rd pairing spot in camp as the roster sits at the moment.
Where do you see him fitting and what are your expectations?
Zaitsev was good in his rookie year, he regressed afterwards under Babs after being put into a shut down d role, for which he wasn't equipped.
Lethtonen has said that he can play the right side, and in fact prefers it, so his competition isn't Morgan/Muzzin/Dermott/Sandin, rather it's Holl and a whole bunch of nothing.
Thanks, must be it.
It should go without saying that most fans(not just in Toronto) won't know much if anything about this player.
Zaitsev was good in his rookie year, he regressed afterwards under Babs after being put into a shut down d role, for which he wasn't equipped.
Lethtonen has said that he can play the right side, and in fact prefers it, so his competition isn't Morgan/Muzzin/Dermott/Sandin, rather it's Holl and a whole bunch of nothing.
You know all the strength of a good defenseman is mostly smarts to ge where you need to be whenyou need to be there. Taking the right ice,good reads to jump in,good body position,good gap,ability to close quick and at the right time.Lehtonen's production last year came as a LHD in the KHL for his breakout season. I believe he played on the right side in the SEL the year earlier IIRC but his production was down.
2017-18 - Tappara -- Liiga [Finland] --- 55 games 12 goals 17 assists 29 points (as LD)
2018-19 - HV71 ------ SHL [Sweden] --- 52 games 5 goals 19 assists 24 points (as RD or weak side)
2019-20 - Jokerit --- KHL [Russia] ----- 60 games 17 goals 32 assists 49 points (as LD or strong side)
Leafs right side D is extremely weak, but it will be interesting to see how he is deployed , but transitioning to the NHL is already a giant step, and then forced to do that on his weak side as the competition level increases significantly is not ideal. IMO
There is a lot less time and space in the NHL then in bigger Euro rinks that are 15' wider. So playing on your weak side while under forchecking pressure will result in more turnovers and mistakes.
Zaitsev's rookie NHL season for a previously undrafted 26 year old would be considered a "free wallet" success story. If Leafs could get a similar result out of Lehtonen then Leaf Nation would be ecstatic.
And the thjny with Zaitsev was always more the contract than the player itseld. Hed may have stayed a Leaf if he was signed to say a 2 mil aav over 3 year deal instead of that 7 year monstrosity.
If this recent signibg turns into an above average replacement level 6/5 deal than its a win for the team. Just dont pay him on the next deal like hes a core player
Jeff's self imposed 'time outs' don't last more than 15 hours.He may still be on a late winter sabbatical from social media.
Muzzin is already 31 years old and never recorded more than 42 points in a season, he is coming off a 6 goal 23 point season in 53 games [= 35 point pace] .. He just signed for 4 years for @ $5.625 mil per taking him to age 35 when completed.
How do you compare that to a 25 year old Zaitsev in his rookie season coming off a 4 goals 36 point season who now at age 28 has 4 years left at $4.5 mil?
Muzzin (4 years older) C.H.%: 6.90 vs Zaitsev C.H.%: 6.16 If you didn't like the Zaitsev deal then you really can't like the recent Muzzin resigning $$$.
if Lehtonen comes in at age 26 and puts up Zaitsev like numbers 4-32-36 points playing the same 20 minutes ATOI it will be considered a great season and I can guarantee you with near 100% certainty you're not getting him signed for $2 mil AAV X 3 years like you suggested Zaitsev deserved..
Dubas just signed Justin Holl (age 28) with 68 games 2-16-18 points to your 3 year $2 mil AAV. This is seriously the deal Zaitsev should have gotten? I suppose in Lehtonen comes in with a Holl like year we should expect $2 mil X 3 year Holl like contract. However I wouldn't see that as much of a success story as some might.
Muzzin is a better defenseman than Zaitsev by just about any metric you can name. Even if you want to focus on points - the majority of Zaitsev's points that season came from secondary assists on the PP - not the case for Muzzin. I would have given Zaitsev a 1 or 2 year bridge to prove hes a top four guy (and in retrospect) would have shown he wasnt worth his 4+ million caphit. Zaitsev is closer to being a #5 than a #2 D man and should be earning closer to Holl than Muzzin (Holl had more points this season than Zaitsev)
Muzzin is a proven #2/3 guy. I dont see the comparison here at all.
As for Lehtonen, we cant predict his contract until we see him play a game.
Edit: clarification
all stat and narrative drivenBang on.
Points do matter. But they're not the way to measure the success of defencemen alone, not even nearly. Especially not in the case of 'defensive defencemen'
Mess is all stat driven though.
It's also because Muzzin was a Dubas addition, so Mess likes the other player who is worse just because he was added by another GM.Bang on.
Points do matter. But they're not the way to measure the success of defencemen alone, not even nearly. Especially not in the case of 'defensive defencemen'
Mess is all stat driven though.
Yeah this is all wrong but that won't stop you.Muzzin is already 31 years old and never recorded more than 42 points in a season, he is coming off a 6 goal 23 point season in 53 games [= 35 point pace] .. He just signed for 4 years for @ $5.625 mil per taking him to age 35 when completed.
How do you compare that to a 25 year old Zaitsev in his rookie season coming off a 4 goals 36 point season who now at age 28 has 4 years left at $4.5 mil?
Muzzin (4 years older) C.H.%: 6.90 vs Zaitsev C.H.%: 6.16 If you didn't like the Zaitsev deal then you really can't like the recent Muzzin resigning $$$.
if Lehtonen comes in at age 26 and puts up Zaitsev like numbers 4-32-36 points playing the same 20 minutes ATOI it will be considered a great season and I can guarantee you with near 100% certainty you're not getting him signed for $2 mil AAV X 3 years like you suggested Zaitsev deserved..
Dubas just signed Justin Holl (age 28) with 68 games 2-16-18 points to your 3 year $2 mil AAV. This is seriously the deal Zaitsev should have gotten? I suppose in Lehtonen comes in with a Holl like year we should expect $2 mil X 3 year Holl like contract. However I wouldn't see that as much of a success story as some might.
This is written diarrhea.Muzzin is already 31 years old and never recorded more than 42 points in a season, he is coming off a 6 goal 23 point season in 53 games [= 35 point pace] .. He just signed for 4 years for @ $5.625 mil per taking him to age 35 when completed.
How do you compare that to a 25 year old Zaitsev in his rookie season coming off a 4 goals 36 point season who now at age 28 has 4 years left at $4.5 mil?
Muzzin (4 years older) C.H.%: 6.90 vs Zaitsev C.H.%: 6.16 If you didn't like the Zaitsev deal then you really can't like the recent Muzzin resigning $$$.
if Lehtonen comes in at age 26 and puts up Zaitsev like numbers 4-32-36 points playing the same 20 minutes ATOI it will be considered a great season and I can guarantee you with near 100% certainty you're not getting him signed for $2 mil AAV X 3 years like you suggested Zaitsev deserved..
Dubas just signed Justin Holl (age 28) with 68 games 2-16-18 points to your 3 year $2 mil AAV. This is seriously the deal Zaitsev should have gotten? I suppose in Lehtonen comes in with a Holl like year we should expect $2 mil X 3 year Holl like contract. However I wouldn't see that as much of a success story as some might.
This is written diarrhea.
Bang on.
Points do matter. But they're not the way to measure the success of defencemen alone, not even nearly. Especially not in the case of 'defensive defencemen'
Mess is all stat driven though.
I usually scroll passed his posts but he honestly just did a Zaitsev and Muzzin comparison and tried to paint Zaitsev as a similarly effective defensemen
C'mon Mess!
Shot suppression and play driving are what interest me when I'm looking at a defenseman I'd like the Leafs to aquire
We've got guys that can put up points, we need guys that can be trusted defensively to pair with them
It's nearly impossible to find a defenseman who can suppress shots and drive play within the leafs system. Barrie was supposed to he an elite play driver who would out chance his defensive gaps but that is not the case this season. Our forwards cheat for offense and our defensive players feel pressure and try to take on plays above their grade at times which hurts us in the defensive zone. We see good defensive reputation players become recognized as poor.
Getting a guy who can skate, make good clean breakouts by skating and stretch passing, and get good offensive shots and can handle 20+ minutes against top competition(assuming your asking to get a guy to play with Rielly) will cost us a premium asset. I don't think we have the open assets to get them right now.
Muzzin does it in our system, you can argue Holl and Dermott both do it to a lesser degree
Barrie was always a one dimensional offensive defenceman with red flags that even the advanced stats people were leary about, he was never a good fit like Muzzin is
Not necessarily, we've seen players who were under appreciated within one organization go somewhere else and be the type of players were talking about, we may already have that type of under appreciated talent in Dermott already
This is because most people don't understand the things that actually drive good defensive results, and many let the isolated play of goaltenders impact their perception to a significant degree. Many here would think Lidstrom sucked defensively.We see good defensive reputation players become recognized as poor.
This is because most people don't understand the things that actually drive good defensive results, and many let the isolated play of goaltenders impact their perception to a significant degree. Many here would think Lidstrom sucked defensively.