Trade: [TOR/SA] Leonard and Green to TOR for DeRozan, Poeltl and draft considerations

[Scandale du Jour]

The rebuild hasn't started yet.....at least I hope not, since they just traded one of their better young players and a conditional first for a pending FA. That's what buyers do, not sellers.

That said, if things go south with this experiment they can certainly fetch a fair price for Kawhi at the deadline, kick-start things that way.

When I say accelerating the rebuild, I mean next year instead of when DDR contract end. And the "rebuild" will probably be more of a "retool". Masai is going all in this year, it seems.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Spurs tried to get futures - it didn't work. Lakers know he is going to sign with them next summer, Philly & Boston couldn't convince him to stay so they werent giving up any good picks/prospects.

Pop also doesn't want to coach a basement dweller in his final years.

Did they? Is there any reporting to that fact?

I guess I assumed that Pop wouldn't want to go full rebuild in his final couple years and would prefer to compete now.

 

[Dr Pepper]

When I say accelerating the rebuild, I mean next year instead of when DDR contract end. And the "rebuild" will probably be more of a "retool". Masai is going all in this year, it seems.

Agreed.

All the more reason why bringing in a rookie coach probably wasn't a smart decision.

 

[cgf]

I'm curious how much impact the Leafs coming back to relevance has had on this Raptors offseason. The Raps rose while the leafs were trash, and now that people have started getting frustrated with losing to Lebron in round 2 in this age of superteams, the Leafs bring in arguably the biggest FA in recent NHL history. So I wonder if getting Kawhi to make a run at the finals is a way to keep the locals from forgetting the Raptors exist again.

 

[cgf]

I would be happy as a fan if they reached the finals, but they will get slaughtered by GSW so what's the point? Accelerating the rebuilt is not a bad thing, I guess. I dunno.

That's fair. And also why I think this makes sense, accelerate the rebuild next year if you can't PG13 - Kawhi. While giving yourself a better chance to hit a new highwater mark as a franchise this year. Seems like a good gamble to me.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I'm curious how much impact the Leafs coming back to relevance has had on this Raptors offseason. The Raps rose while the leafs were trash, and now that people have started getting frustrated with always losing in round 2, the Leafs bring in arguably the biggest FA in recent NHL history. So I wonder if getting Kawhi to make a run to the finals is a way to keep the locals from forgetting the Raptors exist.

Toronto will forever and always be a hockey town first. When the Jays are contending - and they sure as **** aren't now - they take the silver. Raps play third fiddle, although recent "success" may move them up closer.

 

[Voight]

Did they? Is there any reporting to that fact?

I guess I assumed that Pop wouldn't want to go full rebuild in his final couple years and would prefer to compete now.

They asked for at least one of Brown, Tatum, Simmons, Embiid from the C/Sixers and both teams said no. Then they asked the Lakers for Ingram, Kuzma Josh Hart and two draft picks which was shot down very fast.

They only wanted young players who were somewhat proven, hence why they had no interest in Fultz.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I'm curious how much impact the Leafs coming back to relevance has had on this Raptors offseason. The Raps rose while the leafs were trash, and now that people have started getting frustrated with losing to Lebron in round 2 in this age of superteams, the Leafs bring in arguably the biggest FA in recent NHL history. So I wonder if getting Kawhi to make a run at the finals is a way to keep the locals from forgetting the Raptors exist again.

Of course someone had to make this about the Leafs.

 

[cgf]

Toronto will forever and always be a hockey town first. When the Jays are contending - and they sure as **** aren't now - they take the silver. Raps play third fiddle, although recent "success" may move them up closer.

Oh I'm well aware lol, I went to school in Buffalo for a few years & we'd drive up to Toronto often...thus the "keep the locals from forgetting the Raptors exist again" part of my post.

But you have to admit that the Raptors during the Lowry/Derozan/Drake era...while the leafs sucked/rebuilt...got a lot more attention than they ever did when we were kids. With the leafs signing Tavares to join their kids, I wouldn't be surprised if Raptors management was worried that the Leafs would go back from getting 70% (arbitrary # pulled out of my ass just to illustrate my point) of sports attention in Toronto back to the 95% that they did pre- Leafs-rebuild & Lowry/Derozan.

Of course someone had to make this about the Leafs.

Damn it. I just played myself

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Oh I'm well aware lol, I went to school in Buffalo for a few years & we'd drive up to Toronto often...thus the "keep the locals from forgetting the Raptors exist again" part of my post.

But you have to admit that the Raptors during the Lowry/Derozan/Drake era...while the leafs sucked/rebuilt...got a lot more attention than they ever did when we were kids. With the leafs signing Tavares to join their kids, I wouldn't be surprised if Raptors management was worried that the Leafs would go back from getting 70% (arbitrary # pulled out of my ass just to illustrate my point) of sports attention in Toronto back to the 95% that they did pre- Leafs-rebuild & Lowry/Derozan.


Damn it. I just played myself

To give a serious answer I dont think it matters at all. Toronto is a huge ass city, so there's plenty to go around for everyone, and the Raptors rise was much more to do with the team actually being good and especially their excellent marketing. It would've happened regardless of how the Leafs are doing, as we've seen the last two years where the Leafs are also good and that hasn't affected anything.

 

[Avs_19]

That's really all they need right now. Him showing up and being professional was probably the likely scenario all along but some of the media came out strong with the anti-Toronto stuff.

 

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

I have a feeling Toronto is gonna try to flip him to one of the LA teams.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

The rebuild hasn't started yet.....at least I hope not, since they just traded one of their better young players and a conditional first for a pending FA. That's what buyers do, not sellers.

That said, if things go south with this experiment they can certainly fetch a fair price for Kawhi at the deadline, kick-start things that way.

When he said accelerate the rebuild I think he meant for after this season when Leonard walks. The team will be in shambles and have no choice but to rebuild.

 

[Dr Pepper]

When he said accelerate the rebuild I think he meant for after this season when Leonard walks. The team will be in shambles and have no choice but to rebuild.

Yeah, he clarified as much. Makes sense.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

It makes sense, too. I know a lot of people were calling for it months ago, just given how the NBA is now and being merely good not meaning a whole lot, but with LeBron gone I thought that was a little hasty, might as well just finish the window out and go from there.

So to trade in a two-year window for a much better one-year window with the chance to avoid a rebuild altogether? Absolutely you gotta go for it.

 

[dahrougem2]

To me, it isn't even a question - when Kawhi is healthy, he's the 2nd best player in the world behind LeBron James.

I think Kevin Durant is massively overrated on the defensive end of the floor, and he also benefits from playing with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson on the offensive end. Phenomenal player, probably tied for 3rd with James Harden in my books but I 100% take Kawhi Leonard ahead of him.

 

[Voight]

That's really all they need right now. Him showing up and being professional was probably the likely scenario all along but some of the media came out strong with the anti-Toronto stuff.

He doesn't have a choice.

Sit out and pay what will likely amount to his salary in fines (and that would be the salary he earned last season) and look like a petulant toddler who didn't get his way or make the best of it, play & extinguish any fears or criticism other teams may have about him.

 

[Virtanen18]

What a colossally stupid move by the Raptors. Short term gain (if that) for long term pain.

What was their long term outlook otherwise? Run it back with the same roster that struggles in the playoffs every year?

To me, it isn't even a question - when Kawhi is healthy, he's the 2nd best player in the world behind LeBron James.

I think Kevin Durant is massively overrated on the defensive end of the floor, and he also benefits from playing with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson on the offensive end. Phenomenal player, probably tied for 3rd with James Harden in my books but I 100% take Kawhi Leonard ahead of him.

Durant was pretty insane on D in playoffs his last season in OKC.

 

[TMLeafs18]

For one season tops.



Where will they go with Leonard for a year?



Leonard is likely there for one season at most. This is a move you make if you think you have the final piece to the championship puzzle.

Well they for sure weren’t going anywhere with DeRozan for the next 3 years. He proved that by underperforming in playoffs every year.

 

[Stylizer1]

This honestly feels franchise sinking.

DeRozan was never a player that was going to lead you anywhere. It's great he wanted to stay in Toronto but the main reason was that to resign him he would most likely get another max deal but it wouldn't result in the team getting better. DeRozan knew if he stayed in toronto it would make the team have to pay him what would truly be above market value. DeRozan is not a top tier player in the league just he was the best player on his team so by default made him a max player. The best thing that could of happened to him is gettin traded to a team like San Antonio. Best coach in the league and a system to where he ca become a better player instead of being complacent and going through the motions of a team who have been a massive disappointment in the playoffs.

Toronto is closer to a rebuild than a championship with Lowry and DeRozan getting older. At some point you would need to overhaul the roster and with some good young talent they need space to grow. If they only get 1 season out of Khawi that will open up cap room for next season.

Masai has to make up for a lot of mistakes in order to get this team back in a position to where they have flexibility.

 

[Dr Pepper]

DeRozan was never a player that was going to lead you anywhere. It's great he wanted to stay in Toronto but the main reason was that to resign him he would most likely get another max deal but it wouldn't result in the team getting better. DeRozan knew if he stayed in toronto it would make the team have to pay him what would truly be above market value. DeRozan is not a top tier player in the league just he was the best player on his team so by default made him a max player. The best thing that could of happened to him is gettin traded to a team like San Antonio. Best coach in the league and a system to where he ca become a better player instead of being complacent and going through the motions of a team who have been a massive disappointment in the playoffs.

Toronto is closer to a rebuild than a championship with Lowry and DeRozan getting older. At some point you would need to overhaul the roster and with some good young talent they need space to grow. If they only get 1 season out of Khawi that will open up cap room for next season.

Masai has to make up for a lot of mistakes in order to get this team back in a position to where they have flexibility.

I don't think DeRo was 100% money-driven, as you seem to think here. I think he actually liked playing in Toronto and was saddened to be shown the door.

This is made even more apparent with Ujiri apologizing today for misleading him, or calling it a "gap in communication" for leading DeRo to think he wasn't going to be traded.

I'm not saying trading him wasn't something Toronto needed to do; obviously changes need to be made, but I don't like how they went about the last two. Firing Casey was a mistake - I think he would've handled Kawhi better than the inexperienced Nurse will. And if you're going to trade DeRo, at least man up and tell him first instead of the blindside.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

I don't think DeRo was 100% money-driven, as you seem to think here. I think he actually liked playing in Toronto and was saddened to be shown the door.

This is made even more apparent with Ujiri apologizing today for misleading him, or calling it a "gap in communication" for leading DeRo to think he wasn't going to be traded.

I'm not saying trading him wasn't something Toronto needed to do; obviously changes need to be made, but I don't like how they went about the last two. Firing Casey was a mistake - I think he would've handled Kawhi better than the inexperienced Nurse will. And if you're going to trade DeRo, at least man up and tell him first instead of the blindside.

I support Masai for both moves. He inherited Lowry/DeRozan/Casey and was very patient with that core, and rewarded all three of them with lucrative extensions. We've had enough seasons of the same results to lead me to believe we hit our ceiling. It was time for change and a new direction. For the first time in his tenure with the Raptors, Masai finally gets to put his fingerprints on the core of the franchise.

Nick Nurse isn't inexperienced, he boasts a 30 year career at several levels of basketball. He was highly sought after. The reports that him and Casey clashed philosophically leads me to believe that there will be a much different system in place next season.

From what it sounds like, DeMar was aware of the trade talks, but was informed that "nothing was imminent". Sounds like a miscommunication.

 

[le_sean]

I have a feeling Toronto is gonna try to flip him to one of the LA teams.

Then they would have done it already and not held a press conference about this trade.

The intention is to go for it this year with a Top 5 player, a top PG and depth up the wazoo. If it doesn’t work, you blow it up.

The only way to counter the Celtics and possibly the Warriors is with a great defensive unit. The Raps now have that.

 

[Voight]

I don't think DeRo was 100% money-driven, as you seem to think here. I think he actually liked playing in Toronto and was saddened to be shown the door.

This is made even more apparent with Ujiri apologizing today for misleading him, or calling it a "gap in communication" for leading DeRo to think he wasn't going to be traded.

I'm not saying trading him wasn't something Toronto needed to do; obviously changes need to be made, but I don't like how they went about the last two. Firing Casey was a mistake - I think he would've handled Kawhi better than the inexperienced Nurse will. And if you're going to trade DeRo, at least man up and tell him first instead of the blindside.

Ultimately it came down to the fact that he will be 31 when his contract expire and Ujiri doesn't not want to give a player that old a max contract. Instead of telling the fans "we didn't want to pay him" he can at least get 1 season from a. top 5 player and maybe the shakeup will improve the team.

I don't think firing Casey was a mistake as his time and come. It was great that he helped the team become a consistent playoff contender but clearly his schemes and ideas weren't working. Insanity is trying to same thing over and over again expecting a different result when all they have to show for it is one conference finals appearance.

I support Masai for both moves. He inherited Lowry/DeRozan/Casey and was very patient with that core, and rewarded all three of them with lucrative extensions. We've had enough seasons of the same results to lead me to believe we hit our ceiling. It was time for change and a new direction. For the first time in his tenure with the Raptors, Masai finally gets to put his fingerprints on the core of the franchise.

Nick Nurse isn't inexperienced, he boasts a 30 year career at several levels of basketball. He was highly sought after. The reports that him and Casey clashed philosophically leads me to believe that there will be a much different system in place next season.

From what it sounds like, DeMar was aware of the trade talks, but was informed that "nothing was imminent". Sounds like a miscommunication.

Nurse wanted to open the offence more but Casey, being a "defensive coordinator" type wanted to keep it conservative.

As per Masai, hes wanted to blow up the team since he was hired but with all the success they've had it'd be murder to do so. With this move he can justify a rebuild if they don't make the finals this year and finally make the team his way.

 

[Terry Yake]

so how i take it from masai's presser is that he 100% told DD he was the future of the franchise, then the chance to acquire kawhi came up and he went for it without thinking about how bad it would look in regards to trading DD and now he wants everyone to cut him some slack