Confirmed Trade: [TOR/COL] Tyson Barrie (@50%) , A. Kerfoot, '20 6th for Nazem Kadri, C. Rosen, '20 3rd - Pt.3

[Mac Attack]

Um, no. No he's not.

He has the same freedom to rush as Rielly does. I believe the problem is that Aves fans have just overrated his abilities.

I think you will find a wide range of Av's thoughts on Barrie's abilities. He has always had a great spot to put up points on Av's PP1. Makar is almost a point per game now with that spot and he isn't playing well. (not pumping Makar up, I'm saying he gets gimme points) Most of us were happy with the trade for Kadri so I don't think we all thought he was a world beater. But there are always those people that love to pump Barrie's tires so I get that.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

So far its been a terrible trade for Toronto. This isn't the start Barrie would want going into UFA

Really it's more a terrible trade for Barrie as your second sentence shows.

Kerfoot for Kadri seems a wash as both teams got what they needed. Barrie will eventually come around and Toronto got him for a bargain. Wouldn't say it's a terrible trade for Toronto but it's not quite the fleecing they thought it would be.

 

[Mac Attack]

If you say Kerfoot has been great defensively your obviously not watching the games. I can think of a half dozen times where he lost his man and wasn’t covering the guy in the slot and boom in the net or crazy save was made. Look every player will have gaffes. Kerfoot has generally been as advertised for a 3C, likely better production than expected but average on the D side. At a hair over 3.5 I can deal with it because Kap and Mikheyev are so strong defensively.

Kadri was and still is a top tier 3C that can play 2C for a while if needed. Unfortunately his temper and emotion got the better of him the past two playoff runs and he severely handicapped our team against Boston. He had to go and while the Kerfoot side of the deal has been fair Barrie has disappointed. If he starts to regain his form this will be a solid deal.

Kadri is a 2c. Not just in a pinch either. He was only slotted as 3 in your lineup because you had 2 #1centres.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Why did Kadri have to get that back? A quality trade vs quantity would have been good for them. They got a couple of guys that really arent going to help what they really need. Also from what I have heard from Leaf fans they have a great prospect pool. Somebody couldnt come up and play the 3c role for them? This team wasnt built properly. They jumped the gun on their rebuild imo. Should have signed good/traded for good D instead of signing Tavares, signed their young players to good deals to keep the cost down, and kept stockpiling the prospect pool while Boston and TB have their best years. All this is said in hindsight, but the hockey mecca hasnt been great at managing their roster and probably why the team just hasnt looked great in the last year.

Basically there was no point in moving such a good contract like Kadri unless it brought back exactly what you wanted pretty much.

Kerfoot has been extremely good at the 3C spot so they got exactly what they needed there. They also got a top 4RD which they really really needed, although he isnt a great fit stylistically with the leafs other defenders he will mesh well with Muzzin once he settles into the system.

The leafs are extremely shallow in center depth after their NHL roster. Luckily Goat looks like a lock at the 4C for the foreseeable future and Kerfoot a lock at the 3C so it isnt as big a deal yet.

I'm fine with signing JT. It is so rare to sign a UFA of his caliber and it is far from a guarantee that the Leafs could have landed a big fish UFA defender. Certainly unlucky to be the same quality of player as JT.

The leafs went the Pittsburgh model with 2 number 1Cs. We will see how it pans out.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Sakic does it again.

Are the Leafs using Barrie on the PP with Tavares out? IIRC, Marner played the point last year but not using Barrie on the first unit PP is a waste of his talent.

 

[Cotton]

By Avs fans do you mean Kyle Dubas? You know, the guy who traded for him?

Barrie is a very good offensive defenseman, not as good as some of his die-hards on these boards think (I would never call him a top pair guy). But he's extremely strong in the offensive zone and on the rush. And he can be a bit of a liability in his own end. None of this is new information. I wouldn't hold the first month on the new team and new system against him too much. The magnifying glass of Toronto probably isn't helping either.

I really don't think he'll be Toronto's problem in six months anyway.

No I don't mean Kyle Dubas, he builds quick, skilled and soft teams - Barrie is exactly what he was aiming for.

Him being a Norris contender now that he's in the east was something being posted by some in your fanbase, also the notion he would outshine Rielly, I'd call these overrating his abilities.

If the magnifying glass was out he would be getting trashed relentlessly. Instead there has been no mention of his shortcomings in the media, everyone pretty much expected him to be bad in his own end anyway. My commentary was simply that he hasn't been playing well while Kerfoot has been a fit.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Hypothetically if Toronto trades Barrie at the deadline - what could be the return?
Yes, I know this is never going to happen, but Barrie, the Leafs and Babcock are not compatible.

 

[GetFocht]

Hypothetically if Toronto trades Barrie at the deadline - what could be the return?
Yes, I know this is never going to happen, but Barrie, the Leafs and Babcock are not compatible.

Stecher + Goldobin for Barrie

 

[biotk]

Are the Leafs using Barrie on the PP with Tavares out?

Barrie continues to be used on the second PP. They get a decent percent of the PP time but the unit is weak - It is currently Barrie, Kerfoot, Kapanen, Spezza, Moore.

IIRC, Marner played the point last year

Marner plays either on the right wall (as he played the previous 3 years) or on the left wall.

but not using Barrie on the first unit PP is a waste of his talent.

The Leafs have been specializing in wasting talent for a while. How many teams in the NHL have their leading 5v5 point producer so far this season on neither unit?

Now personally I wouldn't have Barrie on the first unit either, because I wouldn't have a designated first or second unit. But the Leafs currently do and in terms of Barrie not being the first unit - Toronto's problem is they have Barrie, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Rielly and Tavares. With 1D units it is difficult to supplant Rielly on the first unit (personally I would have one unit with 1D and the other with 2D, but it doesn't matter what I think). The simple solution for the Leafs was to go back to the split PP where they had two deadly PP units instead of one stacked unit. They did this in 2016/17 and 2017/18 with the second highest PP GF/60 each season. With the stacked PP1 last season they fell off massively to 9th in PP GF/60. This year continuing the stacked PP1 they have fallen further to 11th. The evidence is overwhelming that the Leafs' have enough talent to run two strong units, and that stacking the PP1 isn't offensively benefitting the one unit enough to make up for the harm it causes the other unit.

They should switch back to the two even unit system, with both units playing different styles.
Tavares - Marner - either Rielly or Barrie and then whoever, whoever.
Matthews - Nylander - either Rielly or Barrie and then whoever, whoever.
No PP1 or PP2. Just start the more rested unit, and then roughly halfway through switch to the second unit which will generally overwhelm the second PK group.

 

[tucker3434]

Well, I sure as hell wasn't expecting Kerfoot to have the most points ten games in. Really slow start for Barrie. He’s definitely a prime candidate for Babcock’s doghouse though.

 

[Mac Attack]

That's five goals in ten games for Kadri now for those of you who think he is a borderline 3c.

 

[The Merchant]

Gotta hand it to Kerf for exceeding expectations thus far, but as the season drags on you'll notice just how baby**** soft he is, especially in the playoffs. He was damn near detrimental to the Avs' success in the post-season because of it. He's an extremely intelligent and (from what I could tell) great locker room guy, but I have no doubt that's why Sakic felt comfortable letting him go. Naz has been a dream 2C so far.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't think people would have predicted that Barrie looks like the by far worst of the three main pieces in this trade. Kerfoot has been a revelation, and I was high on him even before he came here. I haven't caught a lot of Avs games, but sounds like Kadri has fit in well there too. Barrie though... it's not that he's been bad, it's just that he's shown no signs of dynamic talent whatsoever.

 

[The Merchant]

I don't think people would have predicted that Barrie looks like the by far worst of the three main pieces in this trade. Kerfoot has been a revelation, and I was high on him even before he came here. I haven't caught a lot of Avs games, but sounds like Kadri has fit in well there too. Barrie though... it's not that he's been bad, it's just that he's shown no signs of dynamic talent whatsoever.

wut?

 

[biotk]

wut?

Most people forget about this play as it was 23 days ago. I am a big fan of Barrie, but I don't think that he has shown the same kind of dynamism that he showed in Colorado. I don't blame that on Barrie, I blame that on the role, systems etc. The first couple games Barrie was the D that Dubas traded for, but after that it goes along with my position that Babcock destroys player's creativity.

 

[flyfysher]

Barrie is exactly what he was aiming for.

Him being a Norris contender now that he's in the east was something being posted by some in your fanbase, also the notion he would outshine Rielly, I'd call these overrating his abilities.

As an Avs fan I'd call that overrating Barrie's abilities too. But if you examined the Avs board beforehand, you'd have seen there was a huge disparity in terms of how some Avs fans viewed him. Frankly, I think TML aren't deploying Barrie in a manner that best showcases his abilities but I had been hoping that he'd be an asset for you.

Ararana wrote of Barrie

Barrie is a very good offensive defenseman, not as good as some of his die-hards on these boards think (I would never call him a top pair guy). But he's extremely strong in the offensive zone and on the rush. And he can be a bit of a liability in his own end.

That's fair.

 

[Albi34]

My two cents - kadri has been good, as expected. Barrie has been average, not as good as expected. Kerfoot has been good, better than expected. Too early for my opinion to change here.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

As an Avs fan I'd call that overrating Barrie's abilities too. But if you examined the Avs board beforehand, you'd have seen there was a huge disparity in terms of how some Avs fans viewed him. Frankly, I think TML aren't deploying Barrie in a manner that best showcases his abilities but I had been hoping that he'd be an asset for you.

Ararana wrote of Barrie

Barrie is a very good offensive defenseman, not as good as some of his die-hards on these boards think (I would never call him a top pair guy). But he's extremely strong in the offensive zone and on the rush. And he can be a bit of a liability in his own end.

That's fair.

To not use Barrie on the top PP is a really curious decision. He is phenomenal in that role. I think what you're outlining below is how a lot of neutral fans read him. But the dude is exceptional with the man up, a lot like Krug in terms of he goes to another level and really takes advantage of space and has a great feel for when to use his heavy shot through traffic. I mean if you're going to trade for Barrie with the exception of a few teams he is your best PP d-man and that includes Toronto. All due respect to Rielly, but Barrie is their best PP option on D, curious when he actually gets to run with the top unit, I think that should have been the plan from the moment they acquired him.

We will have to wait and see how it evolves.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I realize he’s on pace for 41 goals but it’s the shutdown ability of Kadri that Avs fans have been gushing over. He’s doing work against other team’s top lines while Nathan Mackinnon is just toying with secondary competition. It’s fun to watch.

The Avs just finished a 6 game road trip which was by far their hardest stretch in this season’s schedule. It included stops in Vegas, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Washington, Florida and Tampa. They went 4-1-1 on that 6 game road trip and Kadri scored 4 goals and 7 points while facing other team’s top lines in almost every game. He has added a whole different dynamic to the Avalanche. Allowing Nathan Mackinnon to feast on secondary competition for the first time since he broke out a few years ago is actually kinda comical to watch.

 

[Cotton]

As an Avs fan I'd call that overrating Barrie's abilities too. But if you examined the Avs board beforehand, you'd have seen there was a huge disparity in terms of how some Avs fans viewed him. Frankly, I think TML aren't deploying Barrie in a manner that best showcases his abilities but I had been hoping that he'd be an asset for you.

Ararana wrote of Barrie

Barrie is a very good offensive defenseman, not as good as some of his die-hards on these boards think (I would never call him a top pair guy). But he's extremely strong in the offensive zone and on the rush. And he can be a bit of a liability in his own end.

That's fair.

I'm not trashing the guy, just reporting how our end of the trade has looked. We're 12 games deep which isn't much but he's been largely invisible, and while I've heard "It must be Babcock" or some excuse about utilization, that's not the case. The Leafs are a rushing team, Barrie is encouraged to jump up into the play. Rielly has 12pts (mostly at even-strength) even though he's more of a two-way D, PK's and has had a bad start to the year.

Now I'm sure he'll break out at some point, I hope atleast, but his bad start isn't on coaching - it's on his own play. Even his partner, Muzzin, is playing well and producing, and he gets no PP time.

 

[flyfysher]

I'm not trashing the guy, just reporting how our end of the trade has looked. We're 12 games deep which isn't much but he's been largely invisible, and while I've heard "It must be Babcock" or some excuse about utilization, that's not the case. The Leafs are a rushing team, Barrie is encouraged to jump up into the play. Rielly has 12pts (mostly at even-strength) even though he's more of a two-way D, PK's and has had a bad start to the year.

Now I'm sure he'll break out at some point, I hope atleast, but his bad start isn't on coaching - it's on his own play. Even his partner, Muzzin, is playing well and producing, and he gets no PP time.

I didn't take it as trashing Barrie. Frankly, many Avs posters wondered what the TML fan base reaction would be to the trade over time. I don't watch TML enough to comment knowledgeably on how Barrie might be used better in the TML system. I'd give it a little time before saying they shouldn't have acquired Barrie. He's definitely a good player though I'd guess he still sometimes wishes he was playing with MacKinnon. I originally didn't want Kadri given his history of suspensions. But dang, I think the guy was just what the Avs needed. I hope Barrie works out for the TML just like Kerfoot has been doing for them.

 

[MyBudJT]

Last couple of games it looked almost as if Barrie doesn't have a clue on how to play the NHL game... Its clear he's still acclimatizing to a new team with new systems. Hopefully we can see the Barrie that Avalanche fans told us he was...

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Last couple of games it looked almost as if Barrie doesn't have a clue on how to play the NHL game... Its clear he's still acclimatizing to a new team with new systems. Hopefully we can see the Barrie that Avalanche fans told us he was...

Coach needs to let him go and play his own game and you’ll get the real Barrie.

It’s not like Babcock restricting him has made him any better defensively. He’s going to suck defensively no matter what. Let him play his game and at least there’ll be offense.

 

[MyBudJT]

Coach needs to let him go and play his own game and you’ll get the real Barrie.

It’s not like Babcock restricting him has made him any better defensively. He’s going to suck defensively no matter what. Let him play his game and at least there’ll be offense.

Lame excuse.

I don't think Babcock is putting a leash on him at all...

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Lame excuse.

I don't think Babcock is putting a leash on him at all...

He is though. Barrie isn’t even a great passer. He generates all his offense by moving his legs up ice.

I’ve watched plenty of Leafs games and Barrie has been pass first on almost every retrieval. Trust me, Barrie doesn’t do that unless he’s forced.