Confirmed Trade: [TOR/COL] Tyson Barrie (@50%) , A. Kerfoot, '20 6th for Nazem Kadri, C. Rosen, '20 3rd - Pt.3

[WarriorOfGandhi]

Sure. Also, I have no idea who the Aves are.

the class of animals known as birds, also including ornithischian dinosaurs

 

[DFC]

Yeah, and a few games ago, the Leafs were at the top of the league in shot differential, and then we faced Boston twice, had a back to back against a rested team, and got like zero PPs. It's almost like these sample sizes are useless. They also rank better in metrics that aren't just pure shots against, and put up a ton of shots for.

I wonder who is 27th in shots against, without having 30% of their games on back ends of back to backs?

You're really not gonna find me defending TB's short-comings. We haven't looked good to start the year. It's concerning. If I were a Leaf fan, a team without a 30-some point playoff cushion from last year, but a 3-point playoff cushion, I'd be concerned too.

How about the straight up W-L metric? Which says the Leafs have been pretty average since January. That one's not concerning?

No, that doesn't automatically mean that, and ES scoring is not the only part of a defenseman's responsibilities.

Also, 2017 Gardiner doesn't exist anymore.

...And Barrie's never been known for those other responsibilities. He's not great at them.

I think he's a good player. But if you're not using him on PP1, you're probably over-paying him. Because that's why he's getting paid in the first place.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If I were a Leaf fan, a team without a 30-some point playoff cushion from last year, but a 3-point playoff cushion, I'd be concerned too.

Leafs had a 5 point cushion. Also, there is no cushion. It's a new season.

How about the straight up W-L metric? Which says the Leafs have been pretty average since January. That one's not concerning?

No, I'm not worried about the Leaf's W/L ratio in specific cherry-picked parts of seasons that ignores all context.

...And Barrie's never been known for those other responsibilities. He's not great at them.

Neither was Gardiner. Barrie's been pretty good so far.

I think he's a good player. But if you're not using him on PP1, you're probably over-paying him. Because that's why he's getting paid in the first place.

He's being paid 2.75m...

 

[Belzebob]

Sure. Also, I have no idea who the Aves are.

the poster got confused.

he may of been talking about "ave Maria"

it is what they sing before the games in Toronto.

praying to the virgin mary for some on-ice help

 

[sansabri]

the poster got confused.

he may of been talking about "ave Maria"

it is what they sing before the games in Toronto.

praying to the virgin mary for some on-ice help

Wouldn't be so many Bruins fans in TO if that were the case.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Barrie currently has the worst GA60 on the Leafs D. He was brought in for his offence on a team that needed more D than O. Not sure if he was needed. But when you contrast that he replaced Gardiner who was the Leafs best D in GA60 last year. I think was a bad move by Dubas.

Kerfoot and Kadri are saw offs thus far. Though I think the Avs will benefit from Kadri's grit and the Leafs will miss his grit on a team that is lacking grit.

 

[Belzebob]

Wouldn't be so many Bruins fans in TO if that were the case.

so are you saying that the sold out attendance in Toronto is the result of other team's fans filling the arena?

I can see how that could happen.

fans from the sabre's and the bruins do not have far to travel to see their team demolish the leafs

 

[Avs9296]

One of the few win-win trades you see. A real hockey trade where a position of strength was dealt to address a position of weakness. Both teams seem happy so far.

As for Leafs fans, don't worry about Barrie. He will come around. He's a slow starter. And conversely Kerfoot is a hot starter. But January you will be saying the opposite of what your saying now between the 2.

Barrie has never been great defensively but can put up points when given free reign. As Rantanen said a few years ago "What does Winnipeg and Tyson Barrie have in common? They're both -30 in January"

 

[sansabri]

so are you saying that the sold out attendance in Toronto is the result of other team's fans filling the arena?

I can see how that could happen.

fans from the sabre's and the bruins do not have far to travel to see their team demolish the leafs

I'm saying that Catholics in TO have historically cheered for the Bruins.

 

[Belzebob]

I'm saying that Catholics in TO have historically cheered for the Bruins.

or, it could be that unlike most Toronto fans, the Catholics know a good team when they see one?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Barrie currently has the worst GA60 on the Leafs D. He was brought in for his offence on a team that needed more D than O. Not sure if he was needed. But when you contrast that he replaced Gardiner who was the Leafs best D in GA60 last year. I think was a bad move by Dubas.

Kerfoot and Kadri are saw offs thus far. Though I think the Avs will benefit from Kadri's grit and the Leafs will miss his grit on a team that is lacking grit.

Hopefully you'll understand me not taking your "analysis" seriously - I have been unable to do so ever since reading your previous work based on one game sample sizes.

Never change.

One of the few win-win trades you see. A real hockey trade where a position of strength was dealt to address a position of weakness. Both teams seem happy so far.

As for Leafs fans, don't worry about Barrie. He will come around. He's a slow starter. And conversely Kerfoot is a hot starter. But January you will be saying the opposite of what your saying now between the 2.

Completely agree, a classic win-win trade. Good to see I'm not the only one who can just leave it at that without feeling the need to crap on one side or the other.

Barrie has never been great defensively but can put up points when given free reign. As Rantanen said a few years ago "What does Winnipeg and Tyson Barrie have in common? They're both -30 in January"

 

[sansabri]

or, it could be that unlike most Toronto fans, the Catholics know a good team when they see one?

no

 

[CupInSIX]

I'm saying that Catholics in TO have historically cheered for the Bruins.

You've watched too many House of Pain vids.

 

[sansabri]

You've watched too many House of Pain vids.

that one time was one too many

 

[Belzebob]

no

I suppose there is only really 1 answer to this conundrum.

being catholic I know that most of us get enough of hard to believe content from the pulpit. one has to have a large dose of belief

we do not need it from Toronto based media

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Hopefully you'll understand me not taking your "analysis" seriously - I have been unable to do so ever since reading your previous work based on one game sample sizes.

Never change.

Nothing wins an argument like posting emoticons. Not sure what you do not understand by 'currently' means. And Barrie since he has only played 11 games as a Leaf has the worst GA60 stat for a D man on the team.

 

[Ararana]

Um, no. No he's not.

He has the same freedom to rush as Rielly does. I believe the problem is that Aves fans have just overrated his abilities.

By Avs fans do you mean Kyle Dubas? You know, the guy who traded for him?

Barrie is a very good offensive defenseman, not as good as some of his die-hards on these boards think (I would never call him a top pair guy). But he's extremely strong in the offensive zone and on the rush. And he can be a bit of a liability in his own end. None of this is new information. I wouldn't hold the first month on the new team and new system against him too much. The magnifying glass of Toronto probably isn't helping either.

I really don't think he'll be Toronto's problem in six months anyway.

 

[AvsCOL]

I'll echo what I said when the trade initially happened... I don't understand why the Leafs would trade for a guy whose value hinges on his ability to play huge PP minutes. He's a good offensive threat at 5v5 too, but if you're paying up for him to play 2nd PP, you're not getting full value out of him. Rielly obviously has that on lock, so it makes little sense to me. Barrie needs to play big minutes, and in sheltered offensive zone starts. Seems like the Leafs aren't doing that.

 

[TropicalFruitGirl2]

By Avs fans do you mean Kyle Dubas? You know, the guy who traded for him?

Barrie is a very good offensive defenseman, not as good as some of his die-hards on these boards think (I would never call him a top pair guy). But he's extremely strong in the offensive zone and on the rush. And he can be a bit of a liability in his own end. None of this is new information. I wouldn't hold the first month on the new team and new system against him too much. The magnifying glass of Toronto probably isn't helping either.

I really don't think he'll be Toronto's problem in six months anyway.

Good post.
I've long felt the same about Barrie.
Love him when his team is in transition and on the attack....but first he has to be able to GET to the transitions stage and that oftentimes means he has to defend well....an area that is not his forte.

And yea, I too believe he is playing for a big contract next year...……….but with someone else.
Leafs, even if they wanted to keep him, simply couldn't fit him without gutting other areas of the team.

He will make a very nice offensive type blue liner for someone else though...provided they can pair him with someone who can more than make up for his defensive deficiencies.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I still like the trade for the Leafs. And I like it for Colorado also.
Kerfoot has been mostly good for the Leafs and Barrie is better than he’s playing right now. I think the issue is more the mix on the Leafs D right now. They really need to pair each of Reilly and Barrie with a solid defensive guy but they don’t have the personnel right now. Dermott coming back may help but they probably need another solid guy as well.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I'll echo what I said when the trade initially happened... I don't understand why the Leafs would trade for a guy whose value hinges on his ability to play huge PP minutes. He's a good offensive threat at 5v5 too, but if you're paying up for him to play 2nd PP, you're not getting full value out of him. Rielly obviously has that on lock, so it makes little sense to me. Barrie needs to play big minutes, and in sheltered offensive zone starts. Seems like the Leafs aren't doing that.

Leafs didnt really have issues on the PP anyways. Kind of a weird trade imo. I thought they would have gone for a more defensive D than Barrie.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Leafs didnt really have issues on the PP anyways. Kind of a weird trade imo. I thought they would have gone for a more defensive D than Barrie.

Any trade for Kadri had to have a 3C replacement + top 4RD coming back. Probably wasnt that many options that fit those needs and also didnt cost too much either.

 

[NextYear67]

Kerfoot alone has been better than Kads. Barrie is just the cherry on top. Boy Wonder GM with a steal of a deal.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Any trade for Kadri had to have a 3C replacement + top 4RD coming back. Probably wasnt that many options that fit those needs and also didnt cost too much either.

Why did Kadri have to get that back? A quality trade vs quantity would have been good for them. They got a couple of guys that really arent going to help what they really need. Also from what I have heard from Leaf fans they have a great prospect pool. Somebody couldnt come up and play the 3c role for them? This team wasnt built properly. They jumped the gun on their rebuild imo. Should have signed good/traded for good D instead of signing Tavares, signed their young players to good deals to keep the cost down, and kept stockpiling the prospect pool while Boston and TB have their best years. All this is said in hindsight, but the hockey mecca hasnt been great at managing their roster and probably why the team just hasnt looked great in the last year.

 

[GetFocht]

So far its been a terrible trade for Toronto. This isn't the start Barrie would want going into UFA