Player Discussion Tomas Tatar

[Cobra Commander]

or Tatar gets Suzuki as his center...

Suzuki on the RW

This is our center depth, it’s going to be ridiculous very soon:

Domi 1C
Kotka 1C
Poehling 2C
Danault 3C

We need more high end wingers.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Thank our lucky stars (and thank Pac67)the LA deal fell thru ....

We don't know what the return was with LA. Word was that their 2018 1st Round Pick (20th Overall) and a 2nd Round Pick was involved. And I think a roster player, too. But even if the return from LA would have been great, what they got in return from Vegas is amazing.

 

[Deebs]

What's great is he's going to be here for another 2 years at a pretty decent contract

 

[Sorinth]

The risk in keeping Tatar is that this is just a hot streak of a player whose NHL career is/was on the line. After a good season he might go back to being the player he was with Vegas.

Although the team has rebounded well from last season we aren't that close to being a playoff contender largely because of defence. So it might be smart to grab a good PMD prospect for Tatar now so that in a few years when Kotkaniemi, Poehling, etc... start to make a serious impact that we have the D to go far.

That said unless a team makes a crazy offer we should at least wait till trade deadline at which point we can reevaluate. But for me Weber would need to make a huge impact on the look of our D or one of Mete/Juulsen would need to step up big time for me to want to keep Tatar (Assuming we can get that PMD prospect for him).

 

[Pat Riot]

The risk in keeping Tatar is that this is just a hot streak of a player whose NHL career is/was on the line. After a good season he might go back to being the player he was with Vegas.

Although the team has rebounded well from last season we aren't that close to being a playoff contender largely because of defence. So it might be smart to grab a good PMD prospect for Tatar now so that in a few years when Kotkaniemi, Poehling, etc... start to make a serious impact that we have the D to go far.

That said unless a team makes a crazy offer we should at least wait till trade deadline at which point we can reevaluate. But for me Weber would need to make a huge impact on the look of our D or one of Mete/Juulsen would need to step up big time for me to want to keep Tatar (Assuming we can get that PMD prospect for him).

Amen brother

 

[FrankMTL]

The risk in keeping Tatar is that this is just a hot streak of a player whose NHL career is/was on the line. After a good season he might go back to being the player he was with Vegas.

Although the team has rebounded well from last season we aren't that close to being a playoff contender largely because of defence. So it might be smart to grab a good PMD prospect for Tatar now so that in a few years when Kotkaniemi, Poehling, etc... start to make a serious impact that we have the D to go far.

That said unless a team makes a crazy offer we should at least wait till trade deadline at which point we can reevaluate. But for me Weber would need to make a huge impact on the look of our D or one of Mete/Juulsen would need to step up big time for me to want to keep Tatar (Assuming we can get that PMD prospect for him).

I would think that if this is just a hot streak, there's more of a chance that he'd just go back to being what he was in Detroit for the last 5 years, which was a 20-25 goal 20-25 assist type player. It's really not that bad. I don't really count what happened in Las Vegas as he was there for such a short amount of time.

 

[Max2]

The groupie that get attached to a player after 20 games playing for us are worst, IMO. Thats why we go in circle for the past 25 years

Tatar has a pretty solid NHL background already so there's no reason to believe he can't be a consistent 20-25 goal scorer here for the remainder of his contract.The majority of draft picks will never play an NHL game.He's already a developed and experienced NHL caliber player who is technically still 27.

 

[Hins77]

Okay. If you trade tatar during this season. You are the gm. How can you explain that and going into the lockerroom and tell : « okay team, îhave trade our best goalscorer. Tomas tatar ». Do you think that you will keep a team happy. Seriously?

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

The risk in keeping Tatar is that this is just a hot streak of a player whose NHL career is/was on the line. After a good season he might go back to being the player he was with Vegas.

Although the team has rebounded well from last season we aren't that close to being a playoff contender largely because of defence. So it might be smart to grab a good PMD prospect for Tatar now so that in a few years when Kotkaniemi, Poehling, etc... start to make a serious impact that we have the D to go far.

That said unless a team makes a crazy offer we should at least wait till trade deadline at which point we can reevaluate. But for me Weber would need to make a huge impact on the look of our D or one of Mete/Juulsen would need to step up big time for me to want to keep Tatar (Assuming we can get that PMD prospect for him).

I'm torn between keeping him and trading him. 65/35 on keeping him. I'm not worried about a regression back to Vegas Tatar, but I want to know how he played in Detroit with better detail before and after the contract. I'm pretty comfortable in thinking Vegas was an anomaly. It's just that the scouting reports seem way off on him that we got i.e. soft, perimeter player, inconsistent. That has me worried that he could regress back to that but I want to know how reliable those scouting reports are.

Even if he regresses hard it seems like he can still produce good totals and could be a luxury on a 3rd line albeit a pricey one.

I really don't think there's a 'wrong' move here. It's a tough decision. I wouldn't blame MB for holding on to him too long and he regresses. It's a bit of a catch 22. As much as you want to sell high every single time you can, you still got a guy who's in his prime that reliably puts up 20+ and seems to be pacing for career highs. Some guys just step it up when they come here. I get both sides but I think you keep him. He's filling a hole (and much much more) and trading him just creates another one.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Okay. If you trade tatar during this season. You are the gm. How can you explain that and going into the lockerroom and tell : « okay team, îhave trade our best goalscorer. Tomas tatar ». Do you think that you will keep a team happy. Seriously?

You raise good questions, but the truth is that unfortunately, some people don't want the players to be happy. They would prefer them to be miserable like last year, and get results like last year, and pick 3rd like last year, but hope that this time they get a saviour and not a guy they wanted to send back to Finland because he was not a legit elite player.

 

[Sorinth]

I would think that if this is just a hot streak, there's more of a chance that he'd just go back to being what he was in Detroit for the last 5 years, which was a 20-25 goal 20-25 assist type player. It's really not that bad. I don't really count what happened in Las Vegas as he was there for such a short amount of time.

Well even in Detroit he went from his career high 29 goals 56 points, to 45 & 46 points the next two years, and then to a 37 point pace the year he was traded.

His Vegas play might be an anomaly, but there were already signs of a decline in his Detroit days. Although Detroit as a team was in decline so it's possible Tatar's decline was simply in line with the overall team decline. I didn't watch Detroit enough to really say for sure.

But if he drops back to his 40-50 point level, that's a big blow to our team and makes it even more important to fix the defence, since our offence is even less reliable.

 

[Sorinth]

I'm torn between keeping him and trading him. 65/35 on keeping him. I'm not worried about a regression back to Vegas Tatar, but I want to know how he played in Detroit with better detail before and after the contract. I'm pretty comfortable in thinking Vegas was an anomaly. It's just that the scouting reports seem way off on him that we got i.e. soft, perimeter player, inconsistent. That has me worried that he could regress back to that but I want to know how reliable those scouting reports are.

Even if he regresses hard it seems like he can still produce good totals and could be a luxury on a 3rd line albeit a pricey one.

I really don't think there's a 'wrong' move here. It's a tough decision. I wouldn't blame MB for holding on to him too long and he regresses. It's a bit of a catch 22. As much as you want to sell high every single time you can, you still got a guy who's in his prime that reliably puts up 20+ and seems to be pacing for career highs. Some guys just step it up when they come here. I get both sides but I think you keep him. He's filling a hole (and much much more) and trading him just creates another one.

It's definitely not clear cut. And people who want to sell often underestimate the impact of having a solid NHLer has on the development of the young guys. Tatar helps insulate the young guys and makes it easier for them to develop and reach their potential since they don't get thrown to the wolves, they can get carried through a rough game/stretch by a vet getting hot and so not ruin a players confidence, etc... Not too mention trading a top player when you are in the playoff hunt is demoralizing and can damage a team culture.

Which is why it's something that has to be reevaluated at trade deadline. Before we can call it one way or the other we have to see what Weber's impact on the team will be, we have to see how the team responds to a our annual winter slump. Once we have a better idea on how good the team really is we can decide if Tatar fits. Until then we just have to sit back and enjoy his play.

 

[Habaneros]

Well even in Detroit he went from his career high 29 goals 56 points, to 45 & 46 points the next two years, and then to a 37 point pace the year he was traded.

His Vegas play might be an anomaly, but there were already signs of a decline in his Detroit days. Although Detroit as a team was in decline so it's possible Tatar's decline was simply in line with the overall team decline. I didn't watch Detroit enough to really say for sure.

But if he drops back to his 40-50 point level, that's a big blow to our team and makes it even more important to fix the defence, since our offence is even less reliable.

One other thing to think about ....Tatar played for 1 coach mostly..named Mike Babcock who in his days played to win 2-1 --1 -0..... the NHL has really opened up and skilled guys like Tatar who was 50+pts in DET under a coach like MB, might now be who we see in Montreal ..

 

[Sorinth]

Okay. If you trade tatar during this season. You are the gm. How can you explain that and going into the lockerroom and tell : « okay team, îhave trade our best goalscorer. Tomas tatar ». Do you think that you will keep a team happy. Seriously?

Well Gallagher is a better goalscorer, so we only trade away our 2nd best goalscorer.

And you tell the truth, you tell the lockeroom and fans that this is a business and you are focused on building a team that can compete for the cup year in year out and sometimes that means taking a step back so that you can take two steps forward. You also talk about how the play of guys like Hudon, Lehkonen were forcing your hand and have been pushing their way into the top-6 so you think it won't be as big a loss (That part might be less truthful).

 

[Not The One]

Hey here's an idea. Let's trade every good player we have for picks who have a 10% chance of being as good as them in five years. That's the way to build a contender amiright?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Trading Tatar now would be a terrible decision.
If we trade him, it should be before in 2 years before the expansion draft

 

[BaseballCoach]

Hey here's an idea. Let's trade every good player we have for picks who have a 10% chance of being as good as them in five years. That's the way to build a contender amiright?

If you do it five times, there is perhaps about a 2% chance of getting one elite player capable of doing more for the team than the guys we gave up. Probably less even. But it's easy for armchair fans who are looking for two things simultaneously - to feel ok when the team loses because "we weren't trying to win" and the home run, no matter how unlikely.

 

[Gravity]

What's great is he's going to be here for another 2 years at a pretty decent contract

Camp Dump, LOL

 

[SOLR]

The risk in keeping Tatar is that this is just a hot streak of a player whose NHL career is/was on the line. After a good season he might go back to being the player he was with Vegas.

He was never the player he was with Vegas. I called that he would be very productive here, and that is his normal (25-30g). I'm more worried about his body long term, so I would keep him until his last season and then trade him as a rental.

 

[tooji]

Tatar will give us some good scoring depth when we are ready to compete in 2 years. If we are not competetive at that point, trade him before his contract is off

 

[Sorinth]

He was never the player he was with Vegas. I called that he would be very productive here, and that is his normal (25-30g). I'm more worried about his body long term, so I would keep him until his last season and then trade him as a rental.

As I pointed out in another post, that year his numbers with Detroit were not very good, he was on pace for 37 points before the trade. So it wasn't just a case of not being a fit in Vegas, he wasn't very good even before the trade.

 

[417]

As I pointed out in another post, that year his numbers with Detroit were not very good, he was on pace for 37 points before the trade. So it wasn't just a case of not being a fit in Vegas, he wasn't very good even before the trade.

No one was good on that team...just like the Habs last year.

You can't expect a single player to buck an entire teams trend.

 

[SOLR]

As I pointed out in another post, that year his numbers with Detroit were not very good, he was on pace for 37 points before the trade. So it wasn't just a case of not being a fit in Vegas, he wasn't very good even before the trade.

This is still one bad year after a few good ones. The data is not really on the site of supporting your theory.

 

[Sorinth]

This is still one bad year after a few good ones. The data is not really on the site of supporting your theory.

No one was good on that team...just like the Habs last year.

You can't expect a single player to buck an entire teams trend.

And in 2010-2011 when Gomez put up a measly 38 points it was just one data point after a few good ones, on a team that didn't produce much offence.

There is a decent sized risk that Tatar doesn't produce well over the course of his contract. Pretending that risk doesn't exist is extremely naive at best. I'm not saying we have to trade him now, but that risk has to be factored into the decision making process.

 

[417]

And in 2010-2011 when Gomez put up a measly 38 points it was just one data point after a few good ones, on a team that didn't produce much offence.

There is a decent sized risk that Tatar doesn't produce well over the course of his contract. Pretending that risk doesn't exist is extremely naive at best. I'm not saying we have to trade him now, but that risk has to be factored into the decision making process.

There's always a risk factor, with every player...Tatar isn't any different.

But it's also about expectations...I think it's fair/reasonable to expect a production of around 50pts for Tatar if healthy.

That doesn't mean i'm attached to him for the rest of his contract either.