Player Discussion Tom Wilson - Part 2

[txpd]

It is (now mildly) infuriating that we can have the conversation now, since we shouldn't have had to choose.

Given what we know, what is different if we didn't have to choose? If both were retained? Lets assume that keeping him didn't stop MacLellan from getting Oshie. I would rather have TJ and Forsberg. But that is a different argument. If Oshie is here, where is Forsberg? Forsberg was not a full time NHL rookie til 2014-15. That was Burakovsky's rookie season. I assume Forsberg takes that role. Playing a secondary role, does he develop into much more than where we are with Vrana?

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Given what we know, what is different if we didn't have to choose? If both were retained? Lets assume that keeping him didn't stop MacLellan from getting Oshie. I would rather have TJ and Forsberg. But that is a different argument. If Oshie is here, where is Forsberg? Forsberg was not a full time NHL rookie til 2014-15. That was Burakovsky's rookie season. I assume Forsberg takes that role. Playing a secondary role, does he develop into much more than where we are with Vrana?

Yes, I think he develops more than where we are with Vrana. He's better and more talented. The Caps have not had issues with forward development.

Let's assume he emerges in 2014-15, like he did with the Preds. I think as a RH shot, he likely immediately plays the slot in PP2, potentially supplanting Brouwer on PP1. At ES, I'd guess he's 1RW or 2RW, and the Johansson on Ovechkin's opposite wing experiment ends permanently. Given the extra F depth, I doubt we give up assets for Glencross. The next summer, maybe they only need to get one RW, so they make the Oshie trade and don't sign Justin Williams, opting for C depth (Vermette) instead? Then, with Kuzy's subsequent emergence, they move on from Johansson earlier, and package him to go more aggressively after a defenseman?

Who knows what would have happened? But I suspect the Caps would have made a bona fide Cup run earlier.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yes, I think he develops more than where we are with Vrana. He's better and more talented. The Caps have not had issues with forward development.

Let's assume he emerges in 2014-15, like he did with the Preds. I think as a RH shot, he likely immediately plays the slot in PP2, potentially supplanting Brouwer on PP1. At ES, I'd guess he's 1RW or 2RW, and the Johansson on Ovechkin's opposite wing experiment ends permanently. Given the extra F depth, I doubt we give up assets for Glencross. The next summer, maybe they only need to get one RW, so they make the Oshie trade and don't sign Justin Williams, opting for C depth (Vermette) instead? Then, with Kuzy's subsequent emergence, they move on from Johansson earlier, and package him to go more aggressively after a defenseman?

Who knows what would have happened? But I suspect the Caps would have made a bona fide Cup run earlier.

Haha! Is that what you suspect since it’s your plan?

Lol!!!!

Seems silly to go back and try to pull strings that didn’t exist and then dream up the corresponding downstream moves that would end in better success. Some would say Oshie never gets acquired in your scenario where FF is still here.

Some might say that guys like Kuzy and Ovy, etc....learned invaluable things in their time playing with J Dub. Things that likely helped push the team over the top eventually, that wouldn’t happen in your scenario.

 

[txpd]

Yes, I think he develops more than where we are with Vrana. He's better and more talented. The Caps have not had issues with forward development.

Let's assume he emerges in 2014-15, like he did with the Preds. I think as a RH shot, he likely immediately plays the slot in PP2, potentially supplanting Brouwer on PP1. At ES, I'd guess he's 1RW or 2RW, and the Johansson on Ovechkin's opposite wing experiment ends permanently. Given the extra F depth, I doubt we give up assets for Glencross. The next summer, maybe they only need to get one RW, so they make the Oshie trade and don't sign Justin Williams, opting for C depth (Vermette) instead? Then, with Kuzy's subsequent emergence, they move on from Johansson earlier, and package him to go more aggressively after a defenseman?

Who knows what would have happened? But I suspect the Caps would have made a bona fide Cup run earlier.

The hypothetical is always fun. In this case if Forsberg takes the spot on pp1, they very likely don't trade for Oshie. They don't resign if they do trade. If Oshie isn't on pp1, the entire thing is different because the Caps don't use pp2

 

[maacoshark]

….I forgot. You know more than anyone.

Just you.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Haha! Is that what you suspect since it’s your plan?

Lol!!!!

Seems silly to go back and try to pull strings that didn’t exist and then dream up the corresponding downstream moves that would end in better success. Some would say Oshie never gets acquired in your scenario where FF is still here.

Some might say that guys like Kuzy and Ovy, etc....learned invaluable things in their time playing with J Dub. Things that likely helped push the team over the top eventually, that wouldn’t happen in your scenario.

The only thing I suspected is that they'd have made a bona fide Cup run earlier. The rest were maybes and question marks, quite clearly disputing the notion that the Caps certainly couldn't be better with both Forsberg and Wilson.

Seems silly to brush away one of the worst transactions in Caps history.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

The hypothetical is always fun. In this case if Forsberg takes the spot on pp1, they very likely don't trade for Oshie. They don't resign if they do trade. If Oshie isn't on pp1, the entire thing is different because the Caps don't use pp2

Let's just say I highly disagree with your implication that the Caps wouldn't be at least as good.

 

[Bananas]

Well, on the bright side, at least we didn’t lose both of them.

 

[txpd]

Eh, it actually works when you think about it. First, lions do not live in jungles. Second, male lions typically lays around for about 20 hrs a day and rarely hunts. Kind of like Reeves in G5 of the Finals!

Lions really don't hunt. Right? Its the females that do that. He only hunts if cast out.

 

[txpd]

Let's just say I highly disagree with your implication that the Caps wouldn't be at least as good.

Space-Time continuam. Don't cross the streams. You know. The prime directive.

 

[txpd]

Just you.

smh. ok bro. I will try and do better.

 

[Calicaps]

In a perfect world, Caps keep FF and Willy and go on to win a Cup in at least the same span. In reality... they traded away FF in an epically undervalued and embarrassing deal and went on to win in a Cup a few years later. I am 100% OK with how it all worked out.

And today right now, with the team we have. I choose Willy over FF 10 times out of 10. Forsberg is great and he's an upgrade over a few of our scoring-type wingers. But he doesn't bring a different element--just better skill. Wilson does.

 

[SpinningEdge]

In a perfect world, Caps keep FF and Willy and go on to win a Cup in at least the same span. In reality... they traded away FF in an epically undervalued and embarrassing deal and went on to win a Cup a few years later. I am 100% OK with how it all worked out.

Yup. If you live in the past you are wasting your present.

Bad stuff happened with FF. However, we also traded Brouwer for Oshie... we did a trade/re-sign with Orpik that allowed us to keep Carlson... lots of other good moves.

Basically, every single top end player on the Caps, which arguably has the deepest top end talent in the league, Caps have managed to be able to keep and sign (long-term at that). Overall, good stuff and nothing to dwell at.

 

[Portable Mink]

Man I hope Wilson does a clean hard hit on Crosby and puts him down.
Would be epic.

 

[Sam Spade]

Man I hope Wilson does a clean hard hit on Crosby and puts him down.
Would be epic.

I hope Aston-Reese challenges him to a fight.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The only thing I suspected is that they'd have made a bona fide Cup run earlier. The rest were maybes and question marks, quite clearly disputing the notion that the Caps certainly couldn't be better with both Forsberg and Wilson.

Seems silly to brush away one of the worst transactions in Caps history.

Wellllllll.....that’s kind a big thing that “bona fide” run. Bold Cotton!

The greats learn to move on from failure, not dwell on it. Quite a few Caps fans who might want to try it with regard to FF. We won The Cup. other than for debate on a slow day....not one Caps fan should be holding a candle over the loss of FF now. Big picture! Enjoy it.

 

[StrikingDistance]

All the coulda, woulda, shoulda, talk on here about FF still amuses me. Last thing I wanna see is another Caps euro-dangler on the team. I'll take Willy's old-time physical game 10/10 times over that. It adds another dimension to the team and makes the hockey worth watching.

 

[maacoshark]

Man I hope Wilson does a clean hard hit on Crosby and puts him down.
Would be epic.

That might be a lifetime ban for Wilson.

 

[maacoshark]

smh. ok bro. I will try and do better.

I dont think you should bother. You are a lost cause.

 

[txpd]

I dont think you should bother. You are a lost cause.

noted

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Meh. The Fabulous Forsberg can do his thing in Nashville. Don't miss him at all.

Caps won the Cup. That's all that matters.

 

[Silky mitts]

 

[g00n]

Losing Forsberg was a bad move that I cared about most when McPhee needed to be fired, a bit when there were questions of whether we were missing potential talent, and not at all after winning the Cup. Crisis averted. Next.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I dont think you should bother. You are a lost cause.

Exhibit 237 your Honor.

 

[RandyHolt]

Assuming FF had a hand in GM getting fired, ditching him ironically was exactly what our team needed.

I would have been on the ledge had we not protected Wilson. I remain 100% certain that George would have taken him.