Even if it's a rebuild, why not wait a year? Salary was easy to fit, can mentor younger players, was productive in this shitshow this season. Why stockpile 1st rounders in 2022 when you don't even have a director of scouting and that the draft philosophy might not be as precise as it should be? Why not trade him next year for most probably the same return, but with a 2023 1st rounder instead of a 2022 (which we should have another from a potential Chiarot trade anyway)
Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick, top-10 protect 1st '22 (or 1st+4th '23) and 5th '24
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I wish you were as invisible as you claim he is. You do have a very high irritation to post ratio.
expy
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- Nov 2, 2010
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You know what a rebuild is right?
To be fair, we don't actually know if he wanted to be here. They did have meetings with the vets and asked about their willingness to stick with a rebuild. Perhaps Toffoli asked to be traded but unlike certain other players, decided to play with pride?
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I think he was quoted as wanting to stay, whereas other guys have said nothing, or been ambivalent , like Gallagher.
The Great Weal
Phil's Pizza
- Jan 15, 2015
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NHL GMs don't think like normies do. Sometimes that's better, sometimes that's worse. Dale Tallon traded Reilly Smith for a 4th to get rid of Marchessault, for example. Figure that one out lol.
I think the return for Toffoli is pretty good, fwiw. Doesn't mean we'll win the trade, but it's the kind of move that we need to be making.
I don't agree that we have to get rid of everyone. Expiring contracts, sure, and maybe to get returns including firsts and serious prospects sure, but we don't need to completely empty the boat.
I don't agree that we have to get rid of everyone. Expiring contracts, sure, and maybe to get returns including firsts and serious prospects sure, but we don't need to completely empty the boat.
jakobsbror
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- Oct 17, 2013
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I like the return. We've cornered the Pitlick market. We've got a 1st round pick on Hughes' first trade, which Bergevin never managed to do in 9 years. Heineman was an interesting prospect in 2020's draft, so why not.
What's important too is that we've gained more capspace, which should facilitate another trade at least.
What's important too is that we've gained more capspace, which should facilitate another trade at least.
Chadstudsky
Registered User
I think we're forgetting a major asset we got in this trade, and that's cap space.
I can see Hughes being in on Dadonov now that Vegas wants to activate Eichel. If we get say a 2nd + 4th to take him for this year and next, we get a middle 6 forward back.
It will look like
Toffoli + D prospect (contract reasons)
Vs
Dadonov, Emil, Pitlick, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th
I can see Hughes being in on Dadonov now that Vegas wants to activate Eichel. If we get say a 2nd + 4th to take him for this year and next, we get a middle 6 forward back.
It will look like
Toffoli + D prospect (contract reasons)
Vs
Dadonov, Emil, Pitlick, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th
Chadstudsky
Registered User
jakobsbror
Registered User
- Oct 17, 2013
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This is good thinking, IMO. Toffoli is a good player which is why I think some habs fans are not very comfortable with the trade. But his genre of player can be replaced through UFA and trade, and he returned us a 1st and a serious prospect. Toffoli came to us via UFA signing after all. We've signed similar players before, and will sign them in the future.
Don't get me wrong, Toffoli isn't a ''replacement level'' player. But he can be replaced via UFA if needed.
- Jun 24, 2012
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It’s been mentioned repeatedly but can’t blame anyone for not reading through so many posts but I did.
Couple of my thoughts on the trade :
- Trade : I think it’s close to fair value. We’ll be able to judge better once we see what other players traded this year get back. Past value of players traded are a good indication but does not set the price all the time because each year the situation of the teams are different. Could we have gotten better return if they waited ? Probably, but it wouldn’t have been by much.
- Toffoli : Surprised that he was the first one to go. I would have kept him till next year to keep veteran presence on the team and some scoring threat (don’t want all the pressure on the kids). I guess that by trading him now you take any risk of injuries or regression which could lessen his value. Looking at his comments, he wasn’t sure he wanted to be a rebuilding team (makes sense since he signed here after the kids performances in the bubble), so as far as we know he could have let his agent know that he wanted to go elsewhere.
- 1st Round Pick : Finally, after so many years we get a second first round pick. People are crying for Pelletier And Zary but they forget that both those players were drafted 26th and 24th.
Habs could easily end up with a guy with as much potential, produces the same or just becomes flat out better than any of those guys in the NHL. We will have to wait a few years to see what we get out of it, but what if it’s a home run ? Also gives a chance to the management to pick a player that fits in their vision.
- Heinemann : People are dismissing this kid so quickly. It doesn’t matter if we, the Calgary fans or the media thinks he was the 10th best prospect, the only thing that matters is where the Habs rank him. For all we know, Flames had him in their top 5 prospects but they had to give to get. It’s also probable that some of their prospects were intouchable as they may lose Gaudreau and maybe Tkachuk (also Monahan who isn’t the player he used to be) so they needed to keep some.
I had Heinemann closer to 5th than 10th in their prospects pool. Yes he might not be a top 6 player in the end, but this kid has so much tools that he will eventually play in the NHL. Big winger, great skater, good at forechecking, good wrist shot and more than decent hands.
His best attribute is playing the game at high pace, which was something Hughes and Gorton put lot of accent on in their press conference.
People tend to forget that players with high motors can exceed their ceiling because of all the work they put in.
Even if he tops out as a 3rd line scoring winger, you need players like him in the line up and in your prospect pool (which is not so great when you look at the forwards group). I’ll gladly take a third line scoring winger on his ELC.
We could have gotten as 2nd round pick, but Heinemann is better than that and closer to the NHL, which makes him more valuable. They probably got Rockstrom opinion on him, which could be seen as a bad thing considering our record drafting out of Sweden.
- 5th round pick 2024 : The more assets that we control the better. Picks probably end up not having any impact, but just last year the Habs drafted Joshua Roy in the fifth round pick. They also drafted Farrell, Dobes and Dichow in the 4th-5th round. Those guys might not play in the NHL but it’s definitely an interesting gamble to take as they all show some potential.
Pick can also be used to move up/move down at the draft, traded for an equal pick the year later or even be used to get some depth through the line up.
- Tyler Pitlick : Cap dump that fills a roster spot. Will be important to have some of these guys as other trades will surely happen. He will be gone at the end of the season. Not much to say there.
- Cap space : Trading Toffoli gives the team some cap room which is always good to have and might also help at the trade deadline. Habs might want to help a team retain some salaries or take some contract that might bring some extra assets along the line.
- Top 10 protection : Unless there’s a big injury or catastrophic second half, Calgary will most likely be in the playoff, but this can only be good for the habs. If they somehow miss the playoffs and end up top 10, they get a pick that should be better (with the uncertainty of Gaudreau staying) and an extra 4th round pick.
- - -
Overall, it’s a far trade for both teams. We won’t know much till a few years, but if their assessment of Heinemann is right and that they hit on that 1st round pick it will be a great trade for the team. I wanted a bit more, but in the end the difference wouldn’t have been that big, I’m satisfied with the return they got.
The way I see it, Habs could end up with 3 1st round pick this year and 3/2 next year with some prospects close to the NHL (which should speed up the process).
- Trade : I think it’s close to fair value. We’ll be able to judge better once we see what other players traded this year get back. Past value of players traded are a good indication but does not set the price all the time because each year the situation of the teams are different. Could we have gotten better return if they waited ? Probably, but it wouldn’t have been by much.
- Toffoli : Surprised that he was the first one to go. I would have kept him till next year to keep veteran presence on the team and some scoring threat (don’t want all the pressure on the kids). I guess that by trading him now you take any risk of injuries or regression which could lessen his value. Looking at his comments, he wasn’t sure he wanted to be a rebuilding team (makes sense since he signed here after the kids performances in the bubble), so as far as we know he could have let his agent know that he wanted to go elsewhere.
- 1st Round Pick : Finally, after so many years we get a second first round pick. People are crying for Pelletier And Zary but they forget that both those players were drafted 26th and 24th.
Habs could easily end up with a guy with as much potential, produces the same or just becomes flat out better than any of those guys in the NHL. We will have to wait a few years to see what we get out of it, but what if it’s a home run ? Also gives a chance to the management to pick a player that fits in their vision.
- Heinemann : People are dismissing this kid so quickly. It doesn’t matter if we, the Calgary fans or the media thinks he was the 10th best prospect, the only thing that matters is where the Habs rank him. For all we know, Flames had him in their top 5 prospects but they had to give to get. It’s also probable that some of their prospects were intouchable as they may lose Gaudreau and maybe Tkachuk (also Monahan who isn’t the player he used to be) so they needed to keep some.
I had Heinemann closer to 5th than 10th in their prospects pool. Yes he might not be a top 6 player in the end, but this kid has so much tools that he will eventually play in the NHL. Big winger, great skater, good at forechecking, good wrist shot and more than decent hands.
His best attribute is playing the game at high pace, which was something Hughes and Gorton put lot of accent on in their press conference.
People tend to forget that players with high motors can exceed their ceiling because of all the work they put in.
Even if he tops out as a 3rd line scoring winger, you need players like him in the line up and in your prospect pool (which is not so great when you look at the forwards group). I’ll gladly take a third line scoring winger on his ELC.
We could have gotten as 2nd round pick, but Heinemann is better than that and closer to the NHL, which makes him more valuable. They probably got Rockstrom opinion on him, which could be seen as a bad thing considering our record drafting out of Sweden.
- 5th round pick 2024 : The more assets that we control the better. Picks probably end up not having any impact, but just last year the Habs drafted Joshua Roy in the fifth round pick. They also drafted Farrell, Dobes and Dichow in the 4th-5th round. Those guys might not play in the NHL but it’s definitely an interesting gamble to take as they all show some potential.
Pick can also be used to move up/move down at the draft, traded for an equal pick the year later or even be used to get some depth through the line up.
- Tyler Pitlick : Cap dump that fills a roster spot. Will be important to have some of these guys as other trades will surely happen. He will be gone at the end of the season. Not much to say there.
- Cap space : Trading Toffoli gives the team some cap room which is always good to have and might also help at the trade deadline. Habs might want to help a team retain some salaries or take some contract that might bring some extra assets along the line.
- Top 10 protection : Unless there’s a big injury or catastrophic second half, Calgary will most likely be in the playoff, but this can only be good for the habs. If they somehow miss the playoffs and end up top 10, they get a pick that should be better (with the uncertainty of Gaudreau staying) and an extra 4th round pick.
- - -
Overall, it’s a far trade for both teams. We won’t know much till a few years, but if their assessment of Heinemann is right and that they hit on that 1st round pick it will be a great trade for the team. I wanted a bit more, but in the end the difference wouldn’t have been that big, I’m satisfied with the return they got.
The way I see it, Habs could end up with 3 1st round pick this year and 3/2 next year with some prospects close to the NHL (which should speed up the process).
Natey
GOATS
- Aug 2, 2005
- 62,325
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Why not though? If we're getting 1st round picks and good prospects... get rid of anyone. We need to rebuild 1. because we suck and 2. because Bergevin put us in a terrible spot cap wise.
If we can trade Gallagher or Anderson without retaining salary? Have at it. If we can get last year's value for Petry? See ya. If someone wants to take a flyer on one year of Drouin? Be my guest.
The only guys I wouldn't trade are young kids who are developing (Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov, Evans) and solid leaders like Edmundson and Lehkonen who will never bring back their worth in a trade.
If we get 4 1st rounders this year... something's got to hit, right? lol
26Mats
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2018
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Pitlick is a pending ufa. Can he be flipped for an asset at the TDL, or is he a Paquette value wise?
We basically agree. I think we should draft about 5 times in the first round between this year, and next year, and that this should be our primary goal. But we should trade as little as possible to achieve that goal, IMO.
Bergevin hilariously overemphasized karaktère and leadership, but you do need it in order to maintain a lockerroom that people want to be a part of.
I don’t expect him to garner much interest. I’ll take him way ahead of Paquette as he has more hockey sense, better hands and way better shot.
He’s not really the same type of player. Paquette has a super simple game where he finishes all his checks and looks to be physical any time he can. Some teams do value that as it can give them physical depth, but with the year he’s having with us I don’t expect to get anything for him (if we do and it’s more than 7th or AHL player I will be surprised).
Pitlick definitely has more value in my book, but you would have to retain a bit on him. He’s a good depth player and I think they will probably keep him and let him finish the year here. He was good with the Flyers but not enough consistency not as explosive as his cousin but maybe better set of hands.
If they retain (which might not happen as they probably will retain on Chiarot and maybe on a trade they might facilitate for an other team) they probably get a 5th/6th round pick.
why toffoli? because in the flat cap world not many contenders can take long term deals. and it won't get any better in the offseason. i have a serious doubt that we're going to be able to trade petry or gally without sizable retention. this is a quite strong return, all things considered.
Yoor
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- Mar 17, 2015
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MSL knows for sure, what the plan is, no way does he get evaluated on the results of a poorly built team that they all were left......but he might get judged on CC scoring more goals as he has already.....thinking the develoment of younger plyers is about to improve with a coach like MSL.
Karma Police
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- Sep 28, 2017
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This forum man, we could've traded Toffoli for Crosby and people would still complain on semantics
This is what happens when you hire a tool like Bergevin who then hired his tool buddies.
There was never a true plan. How else do you justify signing Hoffman? How many friggin wingers did you need?
Now folks are upset that Hughes traded a popular and decent vet.
These are the hard decisions that a new GM has to make because the previous GM handed out insane contracts to aging players and thought the best strategy was to build around 2 aging players who probably won't play again.
Price hasn't skated in 5 days...doesn't sound real promising.
An absolute mess will require alot of work.
I commend Hughes for his move yesterday.
There was never a true plan. How else do you justify signing Hoffman? How many friggin wingers did you need?
Now folks are upset that Hughes traded a popular and decent vet.
These are the hard decisions that a new GM has to make because the previous GM handed out insane contracts to aging players and thought the best strategy was to build around 2 aging players who probably won't play again.
Price hasn't skated in 5 days...doesn't sound real promising.
An absolute mess will require alot of work.
I commend Hughes for his move yesterday.
Spearmint Rhino
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- Sep 17, 2013
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Pfft Crosby, dude is almost 35 and owed $8.7MM for a bunch more years, couldn’t even make the Olympic Team
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