OT: To Trotz or not to Trotz

[pistolpete11]

I think this is an oversimplification of Trotz's coaching. I don't recall the Caps being a boring trap team when he was coaching them.

People only remember his Islanders tenure and forget the fact that roster isn't very talented so he had to play a really over the top "defensive" style with them. With the Caps it was more about making sure they were responsible defensively, but I don't recall them being boring.

Yup. As I said in a few posts up, the Caps were 6th, 2nd, 3rd, and 9th in GF under Trotz. He just knew he couldn't win like that with Barzal and a couple other 50-ish point guys. People must be scarred because that's how he most recently beat the Pens in the playoffs or something.

 

[Pens x]

You need a fresh perspective, not some chooch that decided the lineup in August.

 

[molon labe]

POJ was a trainwreck last season. The young forwards aren't anything special and Poulin is like a poor man's Zucker out there. When you need depth scoring it's a little easier to just throw some vets out there. Where Archibald has actually scored - the other youngsters haven't. That's one argument against Sully I've truly never understood...how he 'hates younger players'.

Anyway - I said before but we CAN make a couple changes and adapt to practically any style. We cannot, however, just trade coaches/systems and have this under-performing roster do anything different. It'll require the coach -> Daley/Hagelin type shift. That could be Dumo out for size (since Rutta is worthless there), that could be McGinn/Zucker/etc for a defensive forward or power forward. Just depends.

I guess - I agree with the sentiment that the coaches could go first. But you also really need to take a hard look at the crease, the defensive corps, and the bottom 6. That's quite the shift. Fortunately, it's only November.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You, an idiot : "Actually coaches don't count against the cap! Let's fire them. If they suck, we're not any worse off than now."
Me, a genius: "Have you considered that maybe we should wait until we get to game 33 of the losing streak before making any changes, Mr. Impatient?"

 

[Pens x]

Sullivan is still employed? Hextall hasn’t been fired?

Stay the course!

 

[Beau Knows]

I don't see why Trotz would want to come here. By the end of the season Toronto could be looking for the coach/GM combo he's seeking for, that team has stars in their prime and could pay him more than the Penguins could.

 

[chethejet]

Pens new management is enamored with Sullivan and gave him a 3 year extension. That tells everyone in the organization where the power is and Sully will kill this team before its over and Sid is gone as he has zero loyalty to this new group. How did the Red Sox do this year? Massive mistake to give a coach that deal as he is now 5 years removed from the cup. Sid will grow tired of this nonsense and that is the day the SH** hits the fan.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm not enamored with any of the current NHL coaches, tbh. I'd rather we poach a young up-and-comer who is hungry to make their mark instead of the same crop of aging coaches who've fossilized.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not enamored with any of the current NHL coaches, tbh. I'd rather we poach a young up-and-comer who is hungry to make their mark instead of the same crop of aging coaches who've fossilized.

The owner of the Colts basically just said this same thing when firing their head coach and hiring a guy with no NFL coaching experience. Said, more or less, the new guy hasn't been around long enough for things to seep into his approach and scare him away from trying things and having fun. Said coaches who have been around forever settle into an overly analytical view and are petrified of taking risks.

I'm with you. Give me some random guy nobody's ever heard of that isn't risk averse to the millionth degree, or brain-poisoned by the NHL approach of "play 'em to a draw". Particularly because the next chapter is approaching, and I don't want a Sullivan, Trotz, or whoever else to be in charge of molding the game of the next group of kids--ideally infinitely better prospects than we've had since Staal.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The owner of the Colts basically just said this same thing when firing their head coach and hiring a guy with no NFL coaching experience. Said, more or less, the new guy hasn't been around long enough for things to seep into his approach and scare him away from trying things and having fun. Said coaches who have been around forever settle into an overly analytical view and are petrified of taking risks.

I'm with you. Give me some random guy nobody's ever heard of that isn't risk averse to the millionth degree, or brain-poisoned by the NHL approach of "play 'em to a draw". Particularly because the next chapter is approaching, and I don't want a Sullivan, Trotz, or whoever else to be in charge of molding the game of the next group of kids--ideally infinitely better prospects than we've had since Staal.

And football is a far more strategic game than hockey!

I'd even just settle for a more reactive flavor of our current coach. The stubbornness and the unwillingness to actively coach (as opposed to early, hungry Sullivan) is maddening and self-defeating.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Our old buddy Tantrum Jim just tossed Bruce under the bus. Or as close as a GM can come to doing so.

For a hockey team that can't seem to make the drama end... JR was sure a choice, eh?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Our old buddy Tantrum Jim just tossed Bruce under the bus. Or as close as a GM can come to doing so.

For a hockey team that can't seem to make the drama end... JR was sure a choice, eh?

Sundown Sam over there in Vancouver.

Anyhow wasn't Allvin supposed to be actually running the team?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sundown Sam over there in Vancouver.

Anyhow wasn't Allvin supposed to be actually running the team?

Pfffffft yeah. That's what Vancouver fans insisted they knew, at least.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Shouldn't Pissbaby Jimmy be trying to trade Horvat or Pettersson for like, Gudbranson or something?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Shouldn't Pissbaby Jimmy be trying to trade Horvat or Pettersson for like, Gudbranson or something?

"We value cap space, flexibility and keeping our options open. Which is why we extended this entire mediocre roster for eternity."

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

"We value cap space, flexibility and keeping our options open. Which is why we extended this entire mediocre roster for eternity."

This sounds familiar. Groundhog Day vibes.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Honestly, I'd love to see someone young and refreshing come into this organization, something like Montreal did with MSL. Enough with the recycled coaches

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This sounds familiar. Groundhog Day vibes.

At least this team has done things that actually matter.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

At least this team has done things that actually matter.

That's pretty much why I can't muster anything but apathy anymore. In the Sid/Geno era we saw our Cups, we saw two of the best ever to play. This shit is boring and meaningless and it's gonna be boring and meaningless until ownership and the FO realize they can't keep fiddling while Rome's burning and start the rebuild. I can't fathom how or why people get heated nowadays. At most, I just groan out of boredom and zone out staring at the TV. Sully's a putz, half the roster is dookie, the old guys are over the hill--who cares? This team ain't gonna be relevant again in a Cup sense for another decade. Arguing about xGF and points/60 and on-pace shit and analytics and heatmaps is just bleeeeeeerrrrrgh.

 

[Jacob]

Wait for it… Rikard Gronborg. Hold on let me finish.

Impeccable record abroad but he’s not averse to North America. Played college here and coached juniors here. He’s “new blood” kind of but he’s not young & dumb like Colliton, he’s been around a while. Plus we have some Swedes and Finns so if he can squeeze more out of them in particular why not. Maybe some other Swedes would like to come here to play for him.

For assistants I think I’d bring in some with NHL coaching experience like Dineen just to cover for any lack of experience Gronborg has.

Probably quite high risk / high reward but who cares. If he doesn’t work out we fire him in January and go 25-10 the rest of the way and win a Cup.

 

[Gurglesons]

Wait for it… Rikard Gronborg. Hold on let me finish.

Impeccable record abroad but he’s not averse to North America. Played college here and coached juniors here. He’s “new blood” kind of but he’s not young & dumb like Colliton, he’s been around a while. Plus we have some Swedes and Finns so if he can squeeze more out of them in particular why not. Maybe some other Swedes would like to come here to play for him.

For assistants I think I’d bring in some with NHL coaching experience like Dineen just to cover for any lack of experience Gronborg has.

Probably quite high risk / high reward but who cares. If he doesn’t work out we fire him in January and go 25-10 the rest of the way and win a Cup.

I'd let Rikard Rakell coach this team at this point.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Wait for it… Rikard Gronborg. Hold on let me finish.

Impeccable record abroad but he’s not averse to North America. Played college here and coached juniors here. He’s “new blood” kind of but he’s not young & dumb like Colliton, he’s been around a while. Plus we have some Swedes and Finns so if he can squeeze more out of them in particular why not. Maybe some other Swedes would like to come here to play for him.

For assistants I think I’d bring in some with NHL coaching experience like Dineen just to cover for any lack of experience Gronborg has.

Probably quite high risk / high reward but who cares. If he doesn’t work out we fire him in January and go 25-10 the rest of the way and win a Cup.

Sounds cool. Hope he's available in 5 years when the team's ready to move on from Sullivan.

 

[BobCole]

That's pretty much why I can't muster anything but apathy anymore. In the Sid/Geno era we saw our Cups, we saw two of the best ever to play. This shit is boring and meaningless and it's gonna be boring and meaningless until ownership and the FO realize they can't keep fiddling while Rome's burning and start the rebuild. I can't fathom how or why people get heated nowadays. At most, I just groan out of boredom and zone out staring at the TV. Sully's a putz, half the roster is dookie, the old guys are over the hill--who cares? This team ain't gonna be relevant again in a Cup sense for another decade. Arguing about xGF and points/60 and on-pace shit and analytics and heatmaps is just bleeeeeeerrrrrgh.

This is exactly how I feel, with one exception:

We're so spoiled that we say things like, "we won't be a threat for a Cup for 10 years." I would actually be thrilled if we were threatening for a Cup inside 10 years. Let's say the last of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang retire in five years. It's totally possible (in fact, likely) that 5 years after that the team will be garbage. Heck, I'm from Vancouver - the Canucks have "threatened" a Stanley Cup precisely 2 times in 52 years of existence (I don't count being swept by the Isles in 82).

 

[Gurglesons]

This is exactly how I feel, with one exception:

We're so spoiled that we say things like, "we won't be a threat for a Cup for 10 years." I would actually be thrilled if we were threatening for a Cup inside 10 years. Let's say the last of Crosby, Malkin, and Letang retire in five years. It's totally possible (in fact, likely) that 5 years after that the team will be garbage. Heck, I'm from Vancouver - the Canucks have "threatened" a Stanley Cup precisely 2 times in 52 years of existence (I don't count being swept by the Isles in 82).

Reality is I just hope we have ownership that pays to be competitive when it matters and let’s the organization make the choices.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Reality is I just hope we have ownership that pays to be competitive when it matters and let’s the organization make the choices.

I was hoping we had ownership that wanted to be competitive and didn't tolerate constant failures, but instead we have one that signed a coach to an extension who is coming off a billion straight first round exits and is currently coaching his team to a .500 record.