Thoughts on the rebuild? PART 2

[Micklebot]

I know it's not one thing, I will repeat that among things, to remember that one is weird, that's all. In the grand scheme of many things.

Loyalty is earned, and we all have the experiences where we all became fans, I just find it incredible that people can turn it off. It never ceases to amaze me how duplicitous many are here (not you, just a general comment)

Not a lot of people are actually turning off their fandom, anger towards Melnyk is a sign of people being fanatic, not turning off their fandom or being fickle.

Place was always papered, until 2016. So, Alfie rarely helped pack the place legitimately. I enjoyed the Hamburglar run, and the 2017 playoffs. Alfie leaving hurt, but there was ample, incredible hockey after he left, filled with awesome players and dynamite moments.

Yeah, they definitely papered the place, but they were also selling over 10k in season tickets most years until fairly recently. Now we are reportedly under 4k two years running.

 

[BonkTastic]

Yeah, they definitely papered the place, but they were also selling over 10k in season tickets most years until fairly recently. Now we are reportedly under 4k two years running.

Yep.

There's a massive difference between papering a 17,000 crowd to make it 18,500... and papering a 8,000 crowd to barely get it over 10k.

STH numbers over the past 2 years are at the lowest point in the org's history by a massive amount. It's not really comparable to the attendance issues of old.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Place was always papered, until 2016. So, Alfie rarely helped pack the place legitimately. I enjoyed the Hamburglar run, and the 2017 playoffs. Alfie leaving hurt, but there was ample, incredible hockey after he left, filled with awesome players and dynamite moments.

Attendance started to drop significantly in 13-14. Once a trend is established you can pinpoint where it started. Also the papering has very little down with a continued downward trend.

Alfie bailing was the start of that trend. That's when the fanbase started doubting ownership's commitment.

That is the only thing that was said, I have no idea what the quality of hockey being played has to do with any of this.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

We get it, and your opinion has been registered for all eternity, several times.

Can we move on now?

I really don’t see why you feel the need to continue renewing your vows in here; we all get it and understand. There is not a single person in here that is responsible for your suffering. So why are we the ones enduring the constant punishment?

I am sorry that my comments bother you. There seemed to be a bit of a discussion that it seemed relevant to add my piece again. I loved this team more than is healthy for too long and I felt like I got the middle finger and told to shove it, I won't let that go and just focus on what they want me to focus on. I still love the players on the ice when it comes down to it, but the overwhelming feeling is still betrayal and anger. Coming here and venting occasionally is just part of the process for me. You are free to put me on ignore, we've gone back and forth many times and when it really comes down to it, we just don't see things the same way most of the time or want to focus on different aspects of the franchise through this "rebuild."

I'm not questioning your commitment as a fan of the team, but just to clarify, very little of the revenue from memorabilia, jerseys, merchandise, center ice, etc. actually goes to the team. That's almost all HRR collected and re-distributed by the NHL. The team receives a very small cut of the royalties from merchandise sales, for instance. Some estimates are around $6 per jersey (assuming jersey price of $120).

I don't pretend to be making a difference on the bottom line, just a matter of principle.

I just like to put my small voice out in the universe that there are some that haven't forgotten or forgiven and regardless how many think like me, I hope Melnyk never forgets he did so much of this to himself.

 

[coladin]

The "walk on water" quote doesn't exist in a vacuum, though.

There's a lot of fans who saw that as one of many underlying messages from the organization that the team was not going to spend competitively, and that we hired what was essentially the cheapest possible option for the Head Coach position almost immediately afterwards, was proof for a lot of fans.

You have to remember the context in which this all happens /happened. When that quote was made:
- we were only a few years removed from the Alfredsson departure, which was primarily motivated about money, and broken promises revolving around money.
- we were only like 2 years removed from Melnyk's failed Casino bid, which Melnyk had stated team funding would be attached to.

I mean, I think the REAL chaos, like peak Melnyk resentment, didn't start until 2017 (and whoo boy, there was a lot that year that triggered fans - the 2nd Alfredsson departure, the Cy Leeder firing, the harrassing tarps, the team that fell off the rails after the Duchene trade, and Karlsson showing the first public signs that the relationship between himself and the org was strained), but I don't think it's unreasonable to look at Melnyk's coaching comments (the "walk on water" comments) and consider them a fairly significant event in a long chain of events that leave us where we are today - I'd say they may not have been some massive catalyst for revolt at the time, but it's hard to deny that there was a good bit of foreshadowing going on when he dropped that one live on the radio.

I already conceded that it is one of many things, that isn't up for debate. I just find, and I am repeating myself, that to scrape that one out points to a bigger issue. Many here arejust searching for any and all justification to not support the team, the players, the rebuild. i find it tiring. But it is what it is around here.

December 2017 was certainly the watershed moment for me, and I knew that would have devastating consequences. But many teams, if you are fans and follow closely as we do our team, can write up their own list. It is part of being a fan, and it goes on in every league. I never expected my team to please me all the time, heck or even half of the time. As a fan, you are kinda sucked into it, something that is part of your fiber, your being that cannot be simply turned off. That, around here, seems to be duplicitous if you believe everything people post here....and maybe speaks to the larger issue that the diehards required to support a team in a rebuild simply aren't enough

 

[coladin]

Not a lot of people are actually turning off their fandom, anger towards Melnyk is a sign of people being fanatic, not turning off their fandom or being fickle.



Yeah, they definitely papered the place, but they were also selling over 10k in season tickets most years until fairly recently. Now we are reportedly under 4k two years running.

I think they pretend that they turn off their fandom here, saying they don't watch games, won't go, etc...i don't believe them. Fanatics can't do that. I think this entire tire fire has given many an opportunity to use funds that went to hockey on other things (but still watch the games religiously). At some point, fans have to support the team and the players who play for the city, instead of admiring them from afar

 

[coladin]

Attendance started to drop significantly in 13-14. Once a trend is established you can pinpoint where it started. Also the papering has very little down with a continued downward trend.

Alfie bailing was the start of that trend. That's when the fanbase started doubting ownership's commitment.

That is the only thing that was said, I have no idea what the quality of hockey being played has to do with any of this.

People are always searching for this elusive starting point. I really don't care, actually. It just goes to feed what is unimportant as it feeds the apathy and toxicity.

Rebuild is moving along as predicted, and honestly, there is an attendance thread which should be this latest derailment, and I am partly to blame as others here

 

[JungleBeat]

One of my all time favs from Melnyk was when fans were begging for a rebuild (and would of embraced it) and he told the fans to "blow themselves up". It just showed he was more interested in playoff revenue than building a contending team.

Almost forgot about that one. What a loser.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Not going to games, not purchasing merchandise, etc. will never work as a means to boycott an owner. Those revenues are fairly small compared to the overall picture. If people in Ottawa really wanted to do damage they would avoid tuning in on TV and avoid going to events at the CTC. Those are killers to the bottom line revenue of the team and its owner and would create a significant change. I just don't see that happening because people aren't that committed, in a sense.

 

[HSF]

One of my all time favs from Melnyk was when fans were begging for a rebuild (and would of embraced it) and he told the fans to "blow themselves up". It just showed he was more interested in playoff revenue than building a contending team.

Till it was time to pay all our good players in their prime! Karlsson Duchene stone byeeee

 

[HSF]

Not going to games, not purchasing merchandise, etc. will never work as a means to boycott an owner. Those revenues are fairly small compared to the overall picture. If people in Ottawa really wanted to do damage they would avoid tuning in on TV and avoid going to events at the CTC. Those are killers to the bottom line revenue of the team and its owner and would create a significant change. I just don't see that happening because people aren't that committed, in a sense.

I bet you way less people are tuning into games let alone going to them. The product right now is barely watchable on most nights

Melnyk is in trouble

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I bet you way less people are tuning into games let alone going to them. The product right now is barely watchable on most nights

Melnyk is in trouble

You are obviously not watching.

The games have been pretty entertaining.

 

[GCK]

I bet you way less people are tuning into games let alone going to them. The product right now is barely watchable on most nights

Melnyk is in trouble

I promise you the ratings are WAY down. It is no accident that Sens games are hidden on SN1 or SN360 when it’s a Wed or Sat Rogers game. Having said that Melnyks broadcast revenues will keep climbing for another 6 years. When the local rights renewal starts getting negotiated is when one of 3 things happen:

1. Melnyk follows through on spending promise and brand, attendance and ratings recover +

2. Melnyk sells as the local rights will plummet in value. New owners negotiate short term broadcast deal.

3. Team plays elsewhere.

 

[stempniaksen]

You are obviously not watching.

The games have been pretty entertaining.

The brand of hockey has been more exciting than recent history, but Boucher and Cameron (for the most part) didn't set a particularly high bar in that regard. It's still a (almost) last place team with a bunch of placeholders in the lineup. Watching the kids may be enough for those of us who post here on a regular basis, but I wouldn't blame the casual fan for thinking they're being given a substandard product.

 

[Answer]

Rebuild is looking weak because not a single high-end talent at forward position

All our top prospect are still a 'maybe' when it comes to being top 6, including Tkachuk and White

 

[Sweatred]

Your point appeared to be that Melnyk out and poor play was obscuring the underlying attendance problem. I got that from when you said:


My point was that nothing is being obscured away, because everyone from the fans, the media, and the team has acknowledged the market's challenges and that hasn't really changed, fans, media and the team still acknowledge for example, that the arena location is not ideal.

The reason this is important imo is that our attendance challenges before were manageable before with potential, albeit expensive, solutions available (Downtown arena). What we are seeing with the poor play and in particular the Melnyk hate is a compounding effect. CTC attendance has reached a historic low at this point.

At this point, as @BonkTastic has suggested, it's likely Melnyk has done long term damage to the brand. I don't think he can ever go back to being a popular figure among the fans. I'm not sure we can get back to manageable attendance challenges with Melnyk.

We have different views on this. All of you points are relevant such as damaging the brand, downtown rink etc but those parts are the very filter I’m suggesting that obscures the underlying apathetic ticket base.

 

[albator71]

Can a Sens fan withhold their funds from Eugene, but not be seen as quitting on the franchise?

Thats a little tricky. because its hurting the franchise. I understand completely not wanting to give a dime to Melnyk. Its a fine line.

 

[Sensfan4life]

Thats a little tricky. because its hurting the franchise. I understand completely not wanting to give a dime to Melnyk. Its a fine line.

As the former COO famously reminded us, "the Sens are obligated to spend to the cap floor." Eugene has to spend even if he isn't getting our money. The damage is to Eugene's pocketbook, not the franchise.

 

[coladin]

The brand of hockey has been more exciting than recent history, but Boucher and Cameron (for the most part) didn't set a particularly high bar in that regard. It's still a (almost) last place team with a bunch of placeholders in the lineup. Watching the kids may be enough for those of us who post here on a regular basis, but I wouldn't blame the casual fan for thinking they're being given a substandard product.

What does Boucher and Cameron have to do with today’s team. Just admit that they are good to watch and move on. If you need a shower afterwards, or wash your hands, g’ahead

 

[Sensfan4life]

What does Boucher and Cameron have to do with today’s team.

They provide needed context when discussing style of play and watch-ability.

 

[coladin]

They provide needed context when discussing style of play and watch-ability.

No they do not. The team is entertaining to watch this year, his rebuttal was blah blah Cameron blah blah Boucher. What context is needed concerning this years team?

It is a pretty simple answer to a question

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

They're still losing more than they're winning and when they do win, it's mostly attributed to placeholders likely with no long term future here. It's valid to say that's not exciting to tune in for.

 

[Sensfan4life]

No they do not. The team is entertaining to watch this year, his rebuttal was blah blah Cameron blah blah Boucher. What context is needed concerning this years team?

It is a pretty simple answer to a question

Providing a familiar reference point helps with context. It also points out that a small improvement in the current product could be overblown when viewed in comparison to watching past teams.

 

[coladin]

They're still losing more than they're winning and when they do win, it's mostly attributed to placeholders likely with no long term future here. It's valid to say that's not exciting to tune in for.

Then don’t? Gawd, insufferable.

It is a rebuild and some players aren’t ready. You need fillers in the meantime. There is no quick fix here. You all can come back in a few years if that works for you

 

[Sensfan4life]

Then don’t? Gawd, insufferable.

It is a rebuild and some players aren’t ready. You need fillers in the meantime. There is no quick fix here. You all can come back in a few years if that works for you

I'm sure many posters on the board find the over the top positivism from some board members to be insufferable too. I don't see any negative posters telling the positive ones to go away.