Defense and offense minutes are completely different. They also don't develop at the same rates.
Thoughts on the Jones deal?
- Thread starter Styles
- Start date
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
They both had star projections.
Dach's top comps are Couturier and Barkov
Boqvist top comp is Erik Karlsson.
How? Dach has 10 goals and 33 points in 82 NHL games. Boqvist has 6 and 29 in 76 and he's a defenseman.
No but I sure as shit look at a centers PPG when evaluating him as a top line center. Toews had 54 points in 64 games as a 19 year old. That screamed top line center.
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
Dach shows more flashes of his potential in one game than Boqvist does in a month.
Dach didn't really need to show physical development, but has significantly improved the only physical knock on him (his skating) since his draft.
Dach is a half a year younger and in the following draft class. He spent his D+1 season in the NHL, Boqvist spent his D+1 year playing against teenagers.
Like the pick suggested he should? Lets compare to the guys picked right before them. How does Boqvist compare to Quinn Hughes? How does Dach compare to Kakko?
Seriously, this is like the worst argument you could chose.
RayP
Tf
- Jan 12, 2011
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Dach showed all the promising little things and his flaws to me didn’t stand out nearly as much or as badly as Boqvist.
Biggest concern I have with Dach is that he defers too much, but that’s a mentality issue and something I hope isn’t too difficult to correct.
Biggest concern I have with Boqvist is skating and we’ve all seen how that improvement process has gone with Strome. Boqvist also hasn’t really done anything to show he’s a gym rat like other players to work his ass off to improve his skating. Not to mention it’s reasonable to say there are worries about his defensive play and ability to stay healthy.
Biggest concern I have with Dach is that he defers too much, but that’s a mentality issue and something I hope isn’t too difficult to correct.
Biggest concern I have with Boqvist is skating and we’ve all seen how that improvement process has gone with Strome. Boqvist also hasn’t really done anything to show he’s a gym rat like other players to work his ass off to improve his skating. Not to mention it’s reasonable to say there are worries about his defensive play and ability to stay healthy.
I guess you disagree with this, but the entire hockey world values Dach over Boqvist. If this wasn't the case then why did CBJ start their ask with Dach or Debrincat and not start with asking for Boqvist?
If he's your 1C your team isn't good. He didn't even show he was near being a 1C until what, his 7th year in the league?
Toews also didn't play his first two seasons through a global pandemic. Different coaches, system and structure. The NHL was also a bit different 13-14 years ago.
I get the expectation, but under what circumstances and context? It's not a vacuum and I don't think anyone is expecting Dach to live up to Toews' career.
Toews2Bickell
It's Showtime
- Nov 24, 2013
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if Dach becomes a nearly ppg center and one of best defensively in the league then thats a great outcome
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
People don't realize that 75 points with Selke D IS Toews at his peak.
The odds of Boqvist or any of those draft picks becoming as good as Seth Jones are slim. Unless Boqvist turns into a #1D, and all of those draft picks are home runs, the Hawks win this trade.
People value draft picks way too much over proven NHL talent.
People value draft picks way too much over proven NHL talent.
Toews2Bickell
It's Showtime
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if thats true then its certainly not his fault, he's put up nearly ppg numbers and played elite defense for a long while now
The conversation around Bovqist reminds me of the talk around Teuvo when he got dumped. Not a hard worker, too small, not a top line forward.
Kaners Bald Spot
Registered User
It's more that scoring is higher than it was in the early 2010s. 75 pts now is not 75 pts when Toews did it.
Toews2Bickell
It's Showtime
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Toews is a hall of famer though...its supposed to hardly ever happen at that age, if Kirby becomes a ppg 2 way beast at 25 instead of 21 then great...as long as he hits his ceiling at some point
Toews2Bickell
It's Showtime
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the concerns about Boqvist are legit, he cant stay healthy, he's not an elite skater, he's not elite defensively...Seth is going to be a horse for this team, Boqvist might be that kind of player down the road but Seth is that now entering his prime...and Turbo was traded in a cap dump deal, Boqvist brought real value back in return
then we should trade Dach right? It took couturier 7 seasons to become legit, why wait when we could trade Dach now for someone more ready? That’s essentially the Bovqist argument
Toews2Bickell
It's Showtime
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no its not, I dont think Boqvist has Seth Jones ceiling now or ever...Seth is a 1D two way work horse when he's at his best...Boqvist will be a very offensively talented defenseman that you don't rely on to play 30+ min a night in a 7 game series, imo...Boqvist doesn't fit the prototypical 1D that leads teams to cups, its all a matter of opinion and Boqvist could prove everyone wrong in Columbus, but Seth vs Boqvist over next 5 years will be Seth in my opinion
Brightwing
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It's ok to like Boqvist and project that he's going to be a really good player and still be ok with the trade. Or not ok, as the case may be. If both Boqvist and Dach end up having good careers, awesome. If people genuinely aren't Boqvist fans fine, but there's no need to convince yourself that he's a bad player just because he was traded. With the number of defense slots and the number of good players in the system, the Hawks are going to move some very good new dmen over the next couple of years.
I think the biggest issue with Boqvist was not necessarily his level of talent but time. His game is very raw. It's not fair to expect it to come together by next season and he definitely won't be sliding into playing heavy minutes like Keith did. I think Dach's development is further along which is not unusual in a forward. Go look at the On The Clock episode where Boqvist was picked they were already talking about how behind the curve he was in terms of physical development.
If Boqvist becomes a true 1D, it's not going to be for a few years yet. Timing is everything when it comes to a good team. Patrick Kane is 33. If it takes Boqvist four years to get where he needs to be, well Kane is 37.
Did Bowman make the right choice? Time will tell, but I think there definitely was a choice to be made and there were pros and cons in each scenario.
Not directed at you but your post makes this easier.
Boqvist was considered untouchable or almost that, only weeks before he was traded.
11 pick, Musto(most valued draft guys in here) was promising franchise G.
Next years pick could be anywhere including number 3(as well as 32). This years 32 pick was dog ****, accordingly Musto.
ChiHawk21
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- Jan 15, 2011
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would you trade dach for boqvist back right now? lets see if we can walk you through this with some of your own logic.
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