The PP had been struggling for months up until that point. They spent most of the season hoping the PP was gonna get better on its own somehow. I can’t figure out why they let it flounder for so long and only made adjustments at the 11th hour when there was no margin for error.
News Article: This year’s Game 7 was Mike Babcock’s Tipping Point
- Thread starter Orfieus
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The PP had been struggling for months up until that point. They spent most of the season hoping the PP was gonna get better on its own somehow. I can’t figure out why they let it flounder for so long and only made adjustments at the 11th hour when there was no margin for error.
That of course ignores that they DID abandon the strategy that was working. I didn't see long stretch passes to spring the wingers in Games 1 & 3.
And that's ignoring the problems that were pointed out for MONTHS and ignored, that happened to come back and bite the team in the ass right when they didn't need it to. The powerplay was only effective in ONE game.
It's going to sound funny after a few posters have called it bullshit, but here it is; Babcock did the switch at the last minute because he WANTED it to fail. You see it periodically; people start questioning why he doesn't do something (see: Matthews & Marner together, Reilly with Muzzin, trying out guys like Trevor Moore), he gets sick of the questioning, and he does it... But he figures out a way to loosely sabotage it, so that when it fails, he can act vindicated. In the case of the power play, we got burned because Matthews wasn't used to setting up on the opposite side. That wouldn't have been a problem had the switch been made earlier in the season, but because it was literally done at the last minute to appease people asking why...
Gary Nylund
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As another poster said (and as I said earlier), WTF was he doing waiting until game 7 when the PP had been going downhill for months?
HandshakeLineRespect
Respect in the Handshake Line
This writer actually thinks that now the media are openly questioning Babcock that it will have some kind of impact on what the leafs do with his future is ridiculous.
The first time he put Matthews and Marner together he put Matt Martin on the left wing of them. He's pretty calculating isn't he?
Blanche Blanche
Torontoooooo
This 1000000%
Everyone here noticed our systems being exposed by wayyy inferior teams.
We would pull off wins outta our arses by the good grace of raw Talent of 34, 91, 16, 24, 18.
We all saw it.
It got worse and worse because teams were tightening up and the scouting would show some leafs plays and WE DO NOT CHANGE IT UP. Aka .500 hockey since midseason.
Ottawas AHL lineup waltz in and destroyed us.
Montreal kept giving us fits despite them being in a Tank, and only Domi and Gallagher.
Arizona spun our D around and made us a perimiter team.
Babcock lost us homeice and then Gm6 and Gm7.
Struggling PP most of the season.
Player usage horrible. Marleau and Brown
Still unable to change it up when an entire playoff series is within grasp.
Fire the MFer... Im so fedup with what weve ALL been saying since January
Pp was 20%+ going in to Game 7. While they didn't change the setup, they did start working different plays and angles as well.
So is the issue that he didn't make changes or did so too late?
Blanche Blanche
Torontoooooo
Sighhhhhhh
Somthing we said we should do with :
Matthews to give him new linemates.
Marner to spice up a line
JT to anchor a line.
Kapanen to add speed grit to a mine.
Move down Marleau or Brown...
Sigghhhhhhhh
Our coach is an idiot
Please let me say EX coach soon
Maybe just maybe and I'm just spitballing here, but what if the PLAYERS that lack the intestinal fortitude and chock/collapse under the pressure in big games that is the problem?.
Maybe that is the tipping point on why Leafs continue to lose in big game #7s?
And maybe just maybe a minor peewee hockey mom could see that Moore and Ennis were 5x the offensive threats and had 5x the energy of either Marleau or Brown and the clown continued to give that deadweight combo Line 3 minutes, while wasting Willie to boot.
Yea, but I suppose the argument is that he's got to coach his team up since he's supposed to be the best. In his time with Detroit, only the series against Chicago in 2013 did he coach his team up, and they still lost in 7. How many times did his teams come up short against teams they should have beat?
His love of 'piano pullers' and salty vets has always been troubling. You can't take anything away from the guy, but it would be foolish not to try to place some sort of perspective on his achievements, especially if you're the Leafs and your window is now.
He shouldn't be fired, but his seat should be heating up.
weems
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I think its moreso that it took so long and there wasn't even a attempt to try stuff out two months in advance when the PP had gone limp.
That's when you should be moving around pieces and trying different things, not in game 7 of the playoffs.
That doesn't even bother me as much as his PP icetime deployment.
I still cant believe Patrick Marleau played more on the PP in game 6 than either Mitch Marner or John Tavares.
The Bruins even said they were shocked we didn't play the #1 PP more.
He doesn't seem very good at exploiting edges or giving things enough time to really gauge how effective it would be.
Gary Nylund
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TBH, I didn't see much in the way of change over the last several months of the season.
Blanche Blanche
Torontoooooo
Its as baffling as Connor Mcgregor purposely trying to wrestle Kabib... and then finding iut his coach told him to wrestle....
For those of you unfamiliar with that reference , Conor is a stand up fighter with a powerful left hand, and Kabib is an elite wrestler.
Not using Leafs depth on offense and not giving them more time is just as braindead as the hypothetical example.
It is not using your advantages...
Babcock needs to go
Kapanen has 0 grit in his game.
He can skate.
Period.
Bad hockey player.
Easy to see.
kliq
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I'm not defending or criticizing his time in Detroit. The only point I was making, was when the OP I was quoting criticized him for loosing 6 in a row, that those 3 loses against TB, TB, and Bos are not on Babs as in those three series the Wings were simply over-matched. As far as your other criticisms, no argument from me, I do think Babs is overrated and I always laughed when people called him the best coach in the world hands down.
Blanche Blanche
Torontoooooo
He didnt look great these playoffs... and on that line.
I doubt he stays "bad" if we shuffled him around for different looks and plays with different linemates.
Say we move Marleau from 3rd line...
Kap Nylander Brown... very Fast line now with 2 shooters and a passer in Nylander.
Or have
Marleau Nylander Kap
You out Moore with Matthews because Browns not going there.
Point is...
If Babcock actually played the lines the way its effective and having Brown and Marleau on 4th line - we will have top 9 lines with some actual offensive depth and can shuffle as needed.
Instead we are anchored with Marleau and Brown with Nylander.
In essence roadblocking Moore and Ennis from playing with top 6 players.
Thats coaching...
Thats Babcock...
People have been mentioning some of his narcissistic traits since the loss. If they're right and he's a major narcissist (and I can believe that), then moves like this make perfect sense. It's not really intelligence, it's that narcissists feel an absolute need to prove they're right and the rest of the world is wrong. Since the Matthews-Marner pairing wasn't part of the Babcock plan and the press kept asking about it, Babcock NEEDED to prove it wouldn't work and thus he was right to disregard it.
Narcissists like to win, but if they suffer narcissistic injury (like having their decisions questioned), it's easy for them to forget about the win in favor of proving they know everything. I deal with my father every day; he's a great example. He so badly needs to be right in every argument that he'll flip opinions, even during conversations, to make sure his opinions are correct. If you manage to win an actual argument against him, he gets angry and shuts down the entire conversation, by yelling or using one of his patented "end the conversation" techniques ("You're being too loud!", "No, you have to be right. I'm done arguing.", "Whatever you say.", etc.). If you make mistakes, he'll drag them out months or even years later to criticize you, but when he makes a mistake he gets mad if anyone points it out or says anything. He has to be 100% right and 100% perfect all the time.
Here we are once again after a devastating series loss to Boston and a heavy focus on the use of Auston Matthews. After ending last season with a very very clear rift between coach and star player here we are yet again. Matthews being asked about his minutes and with a perturbed look on his face he talks says players dont deploy players, coaches do.
Last year the rumours were that Matthews told Babcock him and Nylander didnt want to be lined up with Hyman constantly. Nobody knows if that was real for sure but my god it makes perfect sense. This year Babs doesnt give Nylander and Matthews more than a game together while Hyman plays top line minutes on a line where he only accounted for 41 points out of 223, and only 1 point in the playoffs. More than that Hyman has a damn injury with 6 month recovery and plays 30 seconds less than our highest paid star player. It's sickening!
Dubas has to see whats going on here, he has to. If i was Tavares and Marner I wouldnt want Hyman on my line either. Hyman seems like he is just an incredible guy with huge heart and a ton to like about him. But good god lets line him up where he should be and maybe he can dominate in that position.
Last year the rumours were that Matthews told Babcock him and Nylander didnt want to be lined up with Hyman constantly. Nobody knows if that was real for sure but my god it makes perfect sense. This year Babs doesnt give Nylander and Matthews more than a game together while Hyman plays top line minutes on a line where he only accounted for 41 points out of 223, and only 1 point in the playoffs. More than that Hyman has a damn injury with 6 month recovery and plays 30 seconds less than our highest paid star player. It's sickening!
Dubas has to see whats going on here, he has to. If i was Tavares and Marner I wouldnt want Hyman on my line either. Hyman seems like he is just an incredible guy with huge heart and a ton to like about him. But good god lets line him up where he should be and maybe he can dominate in that position.
Except that much of his strategy is based on even distribution of ice time to conserve energy for his best players over a long 82 game season not a single winner take all game 7 which is a completely different situation. He’s unable or unwilling to adapt.
Stigma
Registered User
You nailed it on the head. I mean, it's crystal clear he is a narcissist and a very calculating person. Absolutely prone to sabotage with those traits. Does this mean he's a bad coach and should be canned? Not necessarily. However, I would expect minimum compromise and minimum flexibility from him if I'm Shanny or Dubas. If they can live with that, so be it. (for now)
