MattySnipes
Registered User
Exactly. Why abandon it? In Game 1 all guys were back and breaking it out together with short passes. It was all gravy. Game 7 they go back to the brutal stretch pass system and it killed them.
News Article: This year’s Game 7 was Mike Babcock’s Tipping Point
- Thread starter Orfieus
- Start date
Kamiccolo
Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Had nothing to do with the systems and everything to do with usage. Marleau and Brown playing as much as Matthews. JT with 20 minutes, Matthews 18. Then you look at other teams in elimination games (Sharks) and they have Burns and Karlsson playing 40 minutes, their top forwards at 25 minutes, etc.
Matthews even said he could have played more minutes. Just inexcusable yet people will defend anything.
Gary Nylund
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2013
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IMO everyone saying you don't change things in game 7 are missing the point. This team has been fading for months, can anyone even remember the last time we won 2 games in a row?
A less stubborn coach would have changed things up some time in February.
A less stubborn coach would have changed things up some time in February.
Mess
Global Moderator
Maybe just maybe and I'm just spitballing here, but what if the PLAYERS that lack the intestinal fortitude and chock/collapse under the pressure in big games that is the problem?
. Maybe that is the tipping point on why Leafs continue to lose in big game #7s?
Here is the real tipping point of game #7 Leafs loss.
Freddy Andersen lets in a real soft first goal on a Dermott turnover making it 1-0 Boston.
Marcus Johanssen scores on a Jake Gardiner drop pass to no one in his own zone, making it 2-0 Boston. (eventual series GWG).
John Tavares scores Leafs only goal of the game making it 2-1 Boston.
Sean Kuraly skates in 1 on 4 as Leafs players lazily try and stick check him, and beats an unscreened Freddy Andersen from 50 feet out on a wrist shot making it 3-1 and Game Over.
Clearly Babcock is to blame standing behind the bench watching this like the rest of us..
Why didn't he change things up in game #7 and play Hutchinson & Sparks instead of Andersen?
&
Why not play Calle Rosen and Justin Holl as his 3rd pairing and not Dermott and Gardiner in game #7?
All that could have been avoided if only the coach wasn't so stubborn and locked into his ways, unwilling to make changes that could have helped the Leafs win.
Sure those things contributed to the loss, and Babcock sure as hell isn't the only person to be blamed. However the article raises valid points and you didn't off a counter to any of them
KuleminFan41
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- Jan 5, 2009
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Most coaches, especially successful ones don't drastically change their gameplan, if you do that's actually a pretty bad sign. Contrary to what people want to believe, the Leafs have found success with Babcock so far, and yes they have been getting better statistically every season under him, so why would you make drastic changes? Especially in a game 7 where the Leafs actually played well and outplayed Boston for a good chunk of that game. There's no sense in throwing away your gameplan , especially considering that game plan wasn't at fault for the Leafs going down 2-0 in the first period. You can criticize Babcock for certain things(pulling Anderson too soon in game 6 to name one), but I'm not sure the overall gameplan is 100% at fault for the Leafs not moving on this year.
MattySnipes
Registered User
It's possible some of our less-seasoned guys had that issue but it's normal. Not everyone can have the fortitude. But that's where you need support from your vets. For the Leafs that starts with Marleau, Gardiner, Hainsey, Kadri and Andersen.Maybe just maybe and I'm just spitballing here, but what if the PLAYERS that lack the intestinal fortitude and chock/collapse under the pressure in big games that is the problem?
Maybe that is the tipping point on why Leafs continue to lose in big game #7s?
Marleau was garbage - ALL YEAR. Gardiner was injured. Hainsey was actually good in the playoffs other than getting beat by Kuraly on that 3rd goal. Kadri got suspended...again. And for Andersen, he was terrific in this series but had a bad Game 7. Sucks for him because we only scored 1 goal.
Dubas must do a better job insulating this team with a good balance of a wide range of players so that this team can grow and develop a killer instinct to put teams away. I'd like to see Marchment, Engvall and many others be given a solid shot at making the team. Get rid of Brown and Marleau.
Martin Skoula
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- Oct 18, 2017
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Our special teams were horrendous. There's no explanation other than being massively out coached. Crazy idea, but maybe don't play a player with a torn ACL as your #1 PKer when you have other options.
CDN24
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 3,506
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Exactly, the team as constructed has some flaws defensively. Babcock like any coach worth the big $ will coach to his teams strengths and try to mask cover for their weakness. The article focuses on usage of No 1 PP unit. Boston would have been thrilled if they used that unit more esp after Kadri got suspended.
AM 18 mins PP time in series, MM 17, JT 16. Boston used Marchand 12 mins on PK and Bergeron 10. PK unit can't go for full PP so Boston starts with Marchand and Bergeron and has them fresh for 1st shift after the PP. Now assume Babcock plays his top guys 1.5 or even 2 mins depending on whistles. Kadri is suspended and JT/MM are gasping for breath on bench. Marchand. bergeron and pasternak are drooling at the thought of that 1st shift after the PP.
Toronto's d is average at best and with no Kadri, the 3rd /4th line cannot play against Boston's big line. Babcock can only work with what he is given.
The lack of D and depth won't be improved once you get to a point where AM/MM/JT/WN are making a combine cap hit near 40M. One of big 4 has to go despite what Dubas says or we will be here rehashing this next april 25th.
4chandler
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- Apr 11, 2019
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Because Cassidey made adjustments and Babcock didn't.
Adapt or die, Babcock killed the Leafs playoff run in a year where the cup is wide open.
Babcock isn't a winner.
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Mess
Global Moderator
Here is your game #7 series tipping point.
Boston's GM Don Sweeney at the TD went out and got a 3rd line C in Charlie Coyle and he scored 3 goals in the series all in Bruins wins including game #7..
Marcus Johansson was also acquired at the TD and he scored the series winning goal in game #7 and together with linemate Joakim Nordstrom who had 1-1-2 points in the final game while holding the Leafs 3rd line of Marleau -- Nylander -- Brown line to 0-0-0 points combined in the last 5 games of the series.
Dubas went out and got Babcock Nic Petan at the TD to help push the Leafs over the top against Boston.. While Babcock's TD wish list for the GM was a top 4 RHD, and big power-forward for his top 6, and a 4th line veteran C thats good on FO and will play PK and some depth on D.
Bruins GM looks like a genius today with his trade deadline work pushing the Bruins into the 2nd round as his 3rd line combined for 3-2-5 points in the series clincher and outscored Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander who combined for 1-0-1 points in game #7.
Boston's GM Don Sweeney at the TD went out and got a 3rd line C in Charlie Coyle and he scored 3 goals in the series all in Bruins wins including game #7..
Marcus Johansson was also acquired at the TD and he scored the series winning goal in game #7 and together with linemate Joakim Nordstrom who had 1-1-2 points in the final game while holding the Leafs 3rd line of Marleau -- Nylander -- Brown line to 0-0-0 points combined in the last 5 games of the series.
Dubas went out and got Babcock Nic Petan at the TD to help push the Leafs over the top against Boston.. While Babcock's TD wish list for the GM was a top 4 RHD, and big power-forward for his top 6, and a 4th line veteran C thats good on FO and will play PK and some depth on D.
Bruins GM looks like a genius today with his trade deadline work pushing the Bruins into the 2nd round as his 3rd line combined for 3-2-5 points in the series clincher and outscored Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander who combined for 1-0-1 points in game #7.
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"A 4th line veteran C thats good on FO and will play PK" could have been the critical difference in Game 6, a game that was a must win.
More depths on D could've saved us from playing a 70% Gardiner and those give-aways in Game 7.
These minor flaws get identified, taken advantages of, and magnified over a 7 game series, and even more so if the team goes deep into the playoffs. This team's roster has flaws and that's why everyone had boston over toronto before the playoffs began, and why we are unlikely to win this year even if we got past Boston.
The optimistic aspect of this is, some of these flaws are easy to fix. And next year our core will keep getting better, and boston's core will get older (Chara is 43 and Bergeron at 34). If we came this close this year with a sub-par Nylander and without Kadri, I can't see why next year won't be the "tipping point" for us to overcome Boston next year. The biggest question right now is how we deal with the cap issue. The loss could be a blessing in disguise if it could push down Marner's cap.
More depths on D could've saved us from playing a 70% Gardiner and those give-aways in Game 7.
These minor flaws get identified, taken advantages of, and magnified over a 7 game series, and even more so if the team goes deep into the playoffs. This team's roster has flaws and that's why everyone had boston over toronto before the playoffs began, and why we are unlikely to win this year even if we got past Boston.
The optimistic aspect of this is, some of these flaws are easy to fix. And next year our core will keep getting better, and boston's core will get older (Chara is 43 and Bergeron at 34). If we came this close this year with a sub-par Nylander and without Kadri, I can't see why next year won't be the "tipping point" for us to overcome Boston next year. The biggest question right now is how we deal with the cap issue. The loss could be a blessing in disguise if it could push down Marner's cap.
TheLeafsBro
Registered User
We need a coach that will take full accountability.
It should have been Babcock, not Dubas, taking the blame on their shoulders today.
It should have been Babcock, not Dubas, taking the blame on their shoulders today.
EXCEPT HE DID MAKE MAJOR CHANGES. He finally changed the power play in GAME 7. You don't do that, especially when it's very clear the setup was barely practiced.
There is plenty of blame to go around - the fact that Babcock seems incapable of admitting any blame is what burns me. Hockey is so ****ing dumb man.
ToMaLe
Registered User
That was a great read. I have been saying the same thing since our playoffs against the Caps. Nice to see more and more seeing the same thing and voicing their opinion about it!
BAM
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- Nov 21, 2016
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Or maybe hockey is a flukey sport and it takes luck to win as well. Did Ovi, Kuznetsov, Backstrom finally get that "intestinal fortitude" last year or did they get some breaks go their way?Maybe just maybe and I'm just spitballing here, but what if the PLAYERS that lack the intestinal fortitude and chock/collapse under the pressure in big games that is the problem?
Maybe that is the tipping point on why Leafs continue to lose in big game #7s?
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Wafflewhipper
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- Jan 18, 2014
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Babcock equals, structure,habits, a machine he said earlier innthe season.
Reactive, reaponsive , adaptive are not qualities he has ever shown.
He is not a tactician.
We have brough up every issue that has came to the light of day after this seties loss multiple time here
He has mismanaged this group long enough. Does anyone think for one second that he might have forgotten about the Matthews Nylander chemistry....!
Stupidly and ignorance are traits he shows. Its not stubbornness. Its incompetence under scrutiny now.
This guy has cost us. There should be a price he pays for that. He meeds to go.
Reactive, reaponsive , adaptive are not qualities he has ever shown.
He is not a tactician.
We have brough up every issue that has came to the light of day after this seties loss multiple time here
He has mismanaged this group long enough. Does anyone think for one second that he might have forgotten about the Matthews Nylander chemistry....!
Stupidly and ignorance are traits he shows. Its not stubbornness. Its incompetence under scrutiny now.
This guy has cost us. There should be a price he pays for that. He meeds to go.
Anthrax442
Registered User
Having torn-ACL Hyman be a main PK'er and the main faceoff guy against Bergeron may be the single stupidest coaching decision that Babcock ever made.
What did you want him to change ? He modified the PP for game 7, was planning to use JT on the PK and had the better ES team.
Finnish your Czech
J'aime Les offres hostiles
Are you being ironic?Here is the real tipping point of game #7 Leafs loss.
Freddy Andersen lets in a real soft first goal on a Dermott turnover making it 1-0 Boston.
Marcus Johanssen scores on a Jake Gardiner drop pass to no one in his own zone, making it 2-0 Boston. (eventual series GWG).
John Tavares scores Leafs only goal of the game making it 2-1 Boston.
Sean Kuraly skates in 1 on 4 as Leafs players lazily try and stick check him, and beats an unscreened Freddy Andersen from 50 feet out on a wrist shot making it 3-1 and Game Over.
Clearly Babcock is to blame standing behind the bench watching this like the rest of us..
Why didn't he change things up in game #7 and play Hutchinson & Sparks instead of Andersen?
&
Why not play Calle Rosen and Justin Holl as his 3rd pairing and not Dermott and Gardiner in game #7?
All that could have been avoided if only the coach wasn't so stubborn and locked into his ways, unwilling to make changes that could have helped the Leafs win.
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
- Jun 25, 2008
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Cassidy moved Pastrnak onto his 2nd line (and had him inserted throughout his entire line-up at times) when he realized his entire 1st line was neutralized by Tavares, Marner and Hyman.
