Therrien as Head Coach: for how much longer? must find his inner-walrus

[Ezpz]

I don't think he's awful. I just think he's awful at adapting. We'd be doing fine if we were injury free.

 

[Kriss E]

I think it's kind of a critical juncture in the season for the team. If there was some time to do something drastic to try to turn it around, this might be a good time for Bergevin to step up. A big(ish) trade, a surprising (to most) proactive coaching change, etc. It's early enough that if he got it right, they might still turn things around in time. (Still might not, but at least a move might raise the odds a little.)

But I don't think there actually will be any bold moves, of course. And I'm not optimistic about the team's fortunes for this season. I had higher hopes. I was thinking maybe 80/20 on making the playoffs, anyway. I'd probably flip those odds around now. I just don't see the way out.

I think that if Bergevin was planning on doing something drastic, he would have done it by now. Now we're getting our players back little by little. Murray, Parros, MAxPac, Moen are all back, Emelin should be back soon, Briere is symptoms free, Prust shouldn't be too far away, so I'm pretty sure he's gonna wait it out.
People keep saying Bergevin has a plan and is following it, but I just don't see it.
Don't get me wrong, I know he said he wants to build through the draft and prospects, and I actually had no issues with that. I thought he was going through that route when he traded Cole for an upcoming UFA and a draft pick. I was happy to see him lock up MaxPac to a pretty good deal, I expected he was going to do the same with PK that had proved enough and if you're preaching a slow-long rebuild process who really cares about saving cap space from PK for 1 year and a half??
Anyways, after the Cole trade, the rest of his deals made little sense.
I would have liked to see him keep moving players and if he went after stop gaps, go after guys that can bring a lot of good experience to the kids, say a Jagr, not Briere that passed on an opportunity to come here because he was scared.

Anyways, my point is, you want to rebuild through the draft? Then sell players.
You can't do it both ways, and right now we're exactly where we've always been. So I'm hoping he makes up his mind and opts to really go through a rebuild or starts going for it by moving prospects/picks in order to make solid acquisitions.


Therrien isn't going anywhere just because we're in a losing streak. Not after the season he went through, that bought him some time. But if it keeps going down, if the team stops responding to him, if players starts bringing some complaints to Bergevin about Therrien, that might quickly change.

 

[JLP]

I don't see much creativity in MT's system. I saw nearly none in JM's.

Roy is better set up in Colorado where he can just do what he thinks he has to do and play to win. If the Avs were in Montréal the Tyson Barrie treatment alone would have spawned dozens of angry newspaper columns and talk show rants, and I bet Varlamov would have been front page of the Journal De Montréal and still getting ink daily etc etc.

The near-religious status of the Habs and hockey in Montréal hinders the team big time IMO. So it isn't fair to look at Roy's success in Colorado and imagine this would have happened in Montréal.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I actually had a dream that Cate Blanchet was sitting on my face. Habs are daytime reality for me. Not dream material. You should get out more.

The girlfriend was sleeping next to me, I don't need dreams for that! One of the first hockey related dreams I've had, surprisingly.. guess that shows you how much I hate Therrien.

 

[loadie]

He'll be gone in less than two years when I have time to write a strongly worded letter to Mr. Molson.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

I think it's been 32 games since the team has started to struggle. Down the stretch last year they went 4-6, getting shelled often.

Got manhandled 1-4 versus Ottawa in the playoffs.

Are 8-8-1 this year struggling to prevent shots, and never play a 60 minute game.

We will see what happens when players return from injury but MT's tenure can basically be split in half at this point. Strong start, now appearing the players aren't responding to his shtick.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think it's been 32 games since the team has started to struggle. Down the stretch last year they went 4-6, getting shelled often.

Got manhandled 1-4 versus Ottawa in the playoffs.

Are 8-8-1 this year struggling to prevent shots, and never play a 60 minute game.

We will see what happens when players return from injury but MT's tenure can basically be split in half at this point. Strong start, now appearing the players aren't responding to his shtick.

How could they not respond to his only coaching tactic?

 

[FinnHab]

New coach doesnt change nothing, our roster is average. We need more quality players to succeed.

 

[le_sean]

I actually had a dream that Cate Blanchet was sitting on my face. Habs are daytime reality for me. Not dream material. You should get out more.

Cate Blanchett? I really hope you're at least 50 years old.

 

[overlords]

Cate Blanchett? I really hope you're at least 50 years old.

Yeah, I think BSL just gave away his age right there.

 

[poetryinmotion]

I think it's been 32 games since the team has started to struggle. Down the stretch last year they went 4-6, getting shelled often.

Got manhandled 1-4 versus Ottawa in the playoffs.

Are 8-8-1 this year struggling to prevent shots, and never play a 60 minute game.

We will see what happens when players return from injury but MT's tenure can basically be split in half at this point. Strong start, now appearing the players aren't responding to his shtick.

And if they don't, does Bergevin have the balls to be proactive and do something about it?

 

[ECWHSWI]

I think that if Bergevin was planning on doing something drastic, he would have done it by now. Now we're getting our players back little by little. Murray, Parros, MAxPac, Moen are all back, Emelin should be back soon, Briere is symptoms free, Prust shouldn't be too far away, so I'm pretty sure he's gonna wait it out.
People keep saying Bergevin has a plan and is following it, but I just don't see it.
Don't get me wrong, I know he said he wants to build through the draft and prospects, and I actually had no issues with that. I thought he was going through that route when he traded Cole for an upcoming UFA and a draft pick. I was happy to see him lock up MaxPac to a pretty good deal, I expected he was going to do the same with PK that had proved enough and if you're preaching a slow-long rebuild process who really cares about saving cap space from PK for 1 year and a half??
Anyways, after the Cole trade, the rest of his deals made little sense.
I would have liked to see him keep moving players and if he went after stop gaps, go after guys that can bring a lot of good experience to the kids, say a Jagr, not Briere that passed on an opportunity to come here because he was scared.

Anyways, my point is, you want to rebuild through the draft? Then sell players.
You can't do it both ways, and right now we're exactly where we've always been. So I'm hoping he makes up his mind and opts to really go through a rebuild or starts going for it by moving prospects/picks in order to make solid acquisitions.


Therrien isn't going anywhere just because we're in a losing streak. Not after the season he went through, that bought him some time. But if it keeps going down, if the team stops responding to him, if players starts bringing some complaints to Bergevin about Therrien, that might quickly change.

Actually, you can. By not trading away your own draft picks, by acquiring some (Cole trade) and by giving a chance to youngsters (Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Bournival, Leblanc lately, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Patteryn last season, Dumont last season, Holland)...

there's a difference between building trough draft and becoming the Oilers of the East...

 

[Tyson]

I had such high hopes for Bergevin when he arrived. Now I see him and his coach as a complete joke.

 

[DAChampion]

I have to admit that I'm disappointed in how the mood on this forum changed purely due to a losing streak. All of Bergevin's bad moves had been in place prior to this slump.

 

[Apoplectic Habs Fan]

I have to admit that I'm disappointed in how the mood on this forum changed purely due to a losing streak. All of Bergevin's bad moves had been in place prior to this slump.

It's not just a losing streak, it goes back 30 games now. It's been a downward progression

 

[DAChampion]

It's not just a losing streak, it goes back 30 games now. It's been a downward progression

You missed the point.

My point is that the mood on this forum has shifted because of the losing streak. We're seeing a lot of negativity lately. In truth, all of the bad decisions were already implemented prior to this losing streak, they're just seeming more problematic now because playing teams like Colorado and San Jose has exposed our mediocrity.

I am criticising fans who hate the coach/management due to a losing streak, and then back their positions with arguments that could have been made word-for-word prior to the losing streaks. Their positioning is unscientific.

 

[BLONG7]

It's not just a losing streak, it goes back 30 games now. It's been a downward progression

Very true, and I agree, but we have had a ton, an absolute ton of injuries to key players...
My main beef here, is MT was an awful hiring, and I don't see anything last year, or this year that will change my mind on that one...next up, Carbo?

 

[groovejuice]

You missed the point.

My point is that the mood on this forum has shifted because of the losing streak. We're seeing a lot of negativity lately. In truth, all of the bad decisions were already implemented prior to this losing streak, they're just seeming more problematic now because playing teams like Colorado and San Jose has exposed our mediocrity.

I am criticising fans who hate the coach/management due to a losing streak, and then back their positions with arguments that could have been made word-for-word prior to the losing streaks. Their positioning is unscientific.

Their positioning is bit**y. To much emotion, too little intelligent evaluation.

 

[Brainiac]

Cate Blanchett? I really hope you're at least 50 years old.

Come on, man, she's just 44. Perfect age for a cougar.

 

[Luigi Habs]

You missed the point.

My point is that the mood on this forum has shifted because of the losing streak. We're seeing a lot of negativity lately. In truth, all of the bad decisions were already implemented prior to this losing streak, they're just seeming more problematic now because playing teams like Colorado and San Jose has exposed our mediocrity.

I am criticising fans who hate the coach/management due to a losing streak, and then back their positions with arguments that could have been made word-for-word prior to the losing streaks. Their positioning is unscientific.

Disagree. I don't know if you were around during the off-season but the mood wasn't great either since the playoffs. And when we signed Briere, the forum went bizerk.

 

[Blind Gardien]

I am criticising fans who hate the coach/management due to a losing streak, and then back their positions with arguments that could have been made word-for-word prior to the losing streaks. Their positioning is unscientific.

Sorry, what's unscientific about making an evaluation after collecting the observational data instead of making an evaluation based on subjective predictions/opinions?

 

[Kriss E]

Actually, you can. By not trading away your own draft picks, by acquiring some (Cole trade) and by giving a chance to youngsters (Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Bournival, Leblanc lately, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Patteryn last season, Dumont last season, Holland)...

there's a difference between building trough draft and becoming the Oilers of the East...

I wasn't talking about being able to technically do it. My point was that it doesn't work. It's the recipe for being a PO bubble team, as we've been forever now.
Bournival, Leblanc, Dumont, Holland, they're 3rd-4th liners. Bourny might be a top 6, but I don't think he'll amount to that. We've seen many young guys coming from the AHL find early success thanks to the high of taking their first NHL steps. I'm not expecting these guys to amount to much. They can become key role players, but we need impact guys on the top 6.
Tinordi and Beaulieu are in the AHL, still not sure where I put them in terms of premiere role.

The Oilers could have become a very solid team. See the Blackhawks? The Pens?? I'm not suggesting to grab lottery picks for a few years and give them the reigns of the team. But if you rebuild through the draft, you do it for more than one year. If you think you have enough good prospects, then you need to make big push for other players that can hold a big impact on your team, so either you make trades or big signings.
If you think you're just going to wait for your prospects to come around and hope for some later picks to become surprising premiere players, then you might be waiting for a long time.

 

[Blind Gardien]

I think that if Bergevin was planning on doing something drastic, he would have done it by now. Now we're getting our players back little by little. Murray, Parros, MAxPac, Moen are all back, Emelin should be back soon, Briere is symptoms free, Prust shouldn't be too far away, so I'm pretty sure he's gonna wait it out.

I think he'll wait too. But he may be missing out on some opportunities from those teams which are in an even greater panic/desperation mode than the Habs. It's early enough in the season that maybe a few teams think they still have time for a miracle turnaround. Florida liquidated coaching, probably wants to move some players. Edmonton and Philly are making noise (and may have the kinds of GMs most likely to make bad moves under pressure). NJ of course has a lot of incentive to not be terrible... they may have to forfeit a lottery pick otherwise... but probably don't have a GM prone to panicky moves.

It would be a good time to be sniffing around, anyway. May not be anything out there. Smid and Simmonds are names that probably would have a lot of teams interested.

 

[DAChampion]

Sorry, what's unscientific about making an evaluation after collecting the observational data instead of making an evaluation based on subjective predictions/opinions?

It's a retroactive post diction rather than a prediction based on a sound theoretical model. It's always more impressive to successfully state things before the results come in, rather than "overfit" once the results are available.

 

[Blind Gardien]

It's a retroactive post diction rather than a prediction based on a sound theoretical model. It's always more impressive to successfully state things before the results come in, rather than "overfit" once the results are available.

I'm not impressed. So therefore it's not "always" more impressive.

I also don't believe you have any sound theoretical model. You are just making things up that you pull out of your posterior, like all of us.

Unless you want to prove otherwise? Give us your model, show us the parameters, use it to predict the outcome for the rest of the season for us? I dare you.