The "Tanking" And/Or Other Roster Moves Discussion Thread

[EDM]

Since elite forwards are so rare, I have no idea why we would expect teams with elite forwards to want to trade any of them. Our chance to obtain an elite forward will come down to either signing Hall in the off season or winning the draft lottery. The remaining off season UFA forwards do not seem to meet the idea of elite.

 

[koteka]

Since elite forwards are so rare, I have no idea why we would expect teams with elite forwards to want to trade any of them.

Our best hope short term is the Islanders beat a team like the Blues in the finals and teams like Toronto either fail to make the playoffs or lose in the first round. Then maybe GMs will decide defense is important and forwards are overrated, and then they try to chase good defenders and so they might be willing to move a top line forward.

Other than something like that happening, it is Hall (extremely unlikely) or the draft. Or hoping a guy like Hoffman takes a 4 year deal like Nyquist did and can have 2 or 3 really good years here.

 

[Cowumbus]

I don’t get why any of you want Taylor Hall, or why you think he would ever sign here. We need to STOP giving 7 year contracts to guys at the end of their careers.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I don’t get why any of you want Taylor Hall, or why you think he would ever sign here. We need to STOP giving 7 year contracts to guys at the end of their careers.

Why would you think Taylor Hall is at the end of his career? He just turned 28.

 

[ViD]

I don’t think Hall would get along with Torts

 

[Finner]

How do you propose we acquire an elite forward without liquidating lesser assets for picks and shedding cap space?

First of all i love your nickname, second i needed to look word liquidating on the dictionary, what an monsterous word. How the hell is that prounounced? Third finally to the point. I'd trade our young guns for elite forward, i would never trade Jones or Werenski to anywhere. Not even Boone he f***ing admires this team he plays his heart out. Im more than okay trading Murray,Milano,Wenny, one of the 3 young goalies playing outside of NHL for pieces that gets us closer to elite forward. Trading Jones for picks and some middleclass players f*** no. I eat happily hat full of shit if that happens.

 

[thebus88]

How do you propose we acquire an elite forward without liquidating lesser assets for picks and shedding cap space?

Werenski+Anderson is the package.

 

[Jovavic]

I think Hall will have a Nashesque decline, anybody giving him a contract past 33 is going to regret it. Also, you never build around a winger.

 

[WannabeFinn]

I think Hall will have a Nashesque decline, anybody giving him a contract past 33 is going to regret it. Also, you never build around a winger.

Why would Hall have a Nash-esque decline? Hall was never the power forward that Nash was. Of course he’s going to get worse as he gets older and loses a step, but Hall doesn’t have the physical wear and tear or the head trauma that Nash has.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Also, you never build around a winger.

Man, we must be so lucky we didn’t build our forwards around Panarin.

 

[EDM]

There is a very interesting article in the Athletic that concludes that Hall has several good years left. It is far lite detailed than the superficial comments on thus board that st 28 years old, Hall is over the hill. He is the one “elite” player that is available for nothing more than the dollars he wants. No trades, no negotiating what prospects we give up. He is a straight monetary play and we have the cap space. He is the only “ elite” forward available to us.

 

[domi28]

There's $17.3m in cap space next year. Buying out Dubi frees up another $3.9m and let's bump the cap by $2m so we're at $24m +/- in cap space next season. Unless Jarmo just bridges everyone straight to UFA status I'm not seeing how that's anywhere close enough to sign Hall plus all the RFAs.

PLD - $7m
Anderson - $4m
Goalie 1 - $3m
Goalie 2 - $1m
Gavrikov - $2m
Kukan - $1m
Robinson - $1m
Milano - $1m
Stenlund - $1m

That's $21m right there. Unless guys like Savard/Foligno/Jenner/etc are moved I don't see where the money is to sign a guy like Hall.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Can’t buy out Dubinsky. He’s injured.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Can’t buy out Dubinsky. He’s injured.

Can Wennberg still be bought out at a reduced rate after this season?

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Can Wennberg still be bought out at a reduced rate after this season?

I believe so

 

[domi28]

I believe so

Jarmo has until June 15th 2020 at the reduced rate but I personally don't think he gets bought out.

In regards to Dubi I am assuming he heals up enough to be buyout eligible this upcoming offseason. If he's not LTIR is a possibility but it wouldn't necessarily free up his entire salary plus it puts the team in a really bad spot with ELC bonuses that need paid out each year.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I think Hall will have a Nashesque decline, anybody giving him a contract past 33 is going to regret it. Also, you never build around a winger.

Taylor Hall hit his high water mark when he won the Hart Trophy two years ago. He's had two seasons above 65 points in his 8 year career (7 really as the 12-13 season was lock out shortened). Players have generally peaked by his age anyway.

He's not a Panarin level talent. Whoever signs this guy to a 7 year $70 million contract is nutzo.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Can Wennberg still be bought out at a reduced rate after this season?

Unless he gets hurt and is on LTIR. The sound strategy would be to shut him down with 20 or so games left in the season regardless of where the CBJ are in the standings.

I'd shut him down now. Not kidding. It's not worth the 10% or so risk that he'll get an LTIR risk by the end of the season.

 

[koteka]

This place is going to be really fun next year (and not at all repetitive) when Torts, Jarmo, and Wennberg are all back and we don’t make a big free agent move in the off season and the Jackets are still in the 80-90 expected point range for the season. But at least we’ll have a 2020 1st round draft pick to follow and a 2021 pick to discuss.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

There's $17.3m in cap space next year. Buying out Dubi frees up another $3.9m and let's bump the cap by $2m so we're at $24m +/- in cap space next season. Unless Jarmo just bridges everyone straight to UFA status I'm not seeing how that's anywhere close enough to sign Hall plus all the RFAs.

PLD - $7m
Anderson - $4m
Goalie 1 - $3m
Goalie 2 - $1m
Gavrikov - $2m
Kukan - $1m
Robinson - $1m
Milano - $1m
Stenlund - $1m

That's $21m right there. Unless guys like Savard/Foligno/Jenner/etc are moved I don't see where the money is to sign a guy like Hall.

1) Buy out Wennberg. (Keep Dubi on LTIR.)

2) Trade Savard for a 1st or 2nd/prospect.

That should get it done. Not saying it’d be the right play (though I think it likely would) but we can definitely get it done. In particular because so many other teams are in worse cap trouble than we are so the bidding war for him will likely be limited.

Would result in a lineup of something like this (lines not mixed/matched for chemistry, just approximate depth chart):

Hall - PLD - Atkinson
Nyquist - Texier - Bjorkstrand
Foligno - Jenner - Anderson
Milano - Nash - Bemstrom
Robinson, Stenlund

Z - Jones
Gavrikov - Murray
Kukan - Nuti
Peeke, Harrington, Carlsson

If for some reason that’s still not enough cap space, you could trade Jenner/Murray for a nice pick/prospect and not do too much damage to your lineup.

Probably irrelevant because I doubt that’s Jarmo’s plan and/or doubt Hall has much interest in coming here.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

This place is going to be really fun next year (and not at all repetitive) when Torts, Jarmo, and Wennberg are all back and we don’t make a big free agent move in the off season and the Jackets are still in the 80-90 expected point range for the season. But at least we’ll have a 2020 1st round draft pick to follow and a 2021 pick to discuss.

I'd love to bet on Wennberg being back.

I'm not a Jarmo fan, but he'd have to be a stone idiot to pay Poo $5.3 million/year for 3 more seasons when he could be bought out at a 1/3rd with minimal cap hits for six years.

 

[EDM]

I find it astonishing that with the mediocracy & youth that comprises our team that we do not have enough cap space to go after one elite player ????? Can that really be right ??? Has Jarmo come close to the cap to put this team on the ice????

 

[MoeBartoli]

Trading Savard is a popular call and I understand the reasons. I'm all for trading defensive assets, but Savard's one I'd give up reluctantly. He's a solid defensive player who rarely misses games. His pairing with Gavrikov has been strong.

For me Murray and Nuti would be the guys I'd attempt to move. Murray's durability questions (and answers) make him expendable though I realize less Market attractive. Kukan makes Nuti - someone O like - a trade candidate. Often playoff contenders are looking to bolster D and each could be dangled.

As to Wennberg, I'd be happy to be the bagman/errand boy with cash to complete the buyout but @Cyclones Rock probably has seniority and will get that job.

Final thought - I think Taylor Hall very good but will be overpaid when the bidding starts. My take is that his Hart year won't be repeated.

 

[domi28]

I find it astonishing that with the mediocracy & youth that comprises our team that we do not have enough cap space to go after one elite player ????? Can that really be right ??? Has Jarmo come close to the cap to put this team on the ice????

Without some moves money gets real tight next year unless Jarmo kicks the can down the road and hands out more bridge deals. As things stand right now with guys I would consider core players only Jones and Werenski and Atkinson if one counts him are signed beyond next year. On top of that Jones and Werenski are UFA/RFA after the following season. Jarmo has some tough decisions in the next couple years.

As for Wennberg I predict he does not get bought out even though I think he should. Going into next season with PLD, Tex, Jenner, and Nash as the centers would be a disaster and right now I don't see anyone in the pipeline to change that. Instead of freeing up cap space and going after a high end guy I would rather see Jarmo go after a 2C and hope Nash 2.0 doesn't repeat itself.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

Trading Savard is a popular call and I understand the reasons. I'm all for trading defensive assets, but Savard's one I'd give up reluctantly. He's a solid defensive player who rarely misses games. His pairing with Gavrikov has been strong.

For me Murray and Nuti would be the guys I'd attempt to move. Murray's durability questions (and answers) make him expendable though I realize less Market attractive. Kukan makes Nuti - someone O like - a trade candidate. Often playoff contenders are looking to bolster D and each could be dangled.

As to Wennberg, I'd be happy to be the bagman/errand boy with cash to complete the buyout but @Cyclones Rock probably has seniority and will get that job.

Final thought - I think Taylor Hall very good but will be overpaid when the bidding starts. My take is that his Hart year won't be repeated.

I absolutely love David Savard. He’s probably my favorite player on the current roster. However, he’s pushing 30.

Murray and Savard are very similar. Both defensive defensemen. Both good players, Both UFAs in 2021. Similar current $$. Probably about equal trade value. Will probably want similar contracts when they hit free agency. They each, however, have one concerning flaw: Murray, it’s injuries; Savard, it’s age.

I think we should try to keep, beyond next season, exactly one of them, based on cap space, organizational depth, etc. I don’t think it makes sense to keep both; I don’t think it’s wise to keep neither (unless we absolutely can’t due to cap space). I imagine each would want (and get) something at 3-4 years and around $5M/year on the open market. So really it comes down to which you think is the better choice to take a flier on at that price? I happen to think Murray due to age. But if they went with Savard due to injury concerns with Murray and/or they like Savard better as a player, I’d understand and be fine with that, too. I think, whichever one we don’t keep, we prob should try to move for assets before the end of his deal.

I think Nuti should be moved only under the right circumstances. He’s got a pretty nice contract, and probably not as good trade value as either Murray or Savard. I suggested moving him for Gusev this summer, given VGK’s cap problems and his low hit. I hunk that’s the type of deal you should involve in; if a team is willing to pay a premium for a bona fide top-6 defensemen - possibly top-4 - on a cheap deal due to cap problems.

As for Hall, he could be the exact same price for one team as another and make complete sense for one team, while not making sense at that price for another. I think he’d make sense on our roster now, even if at what might be an overpay or more money than he’d be worth to other teams around this league. It’s likely I wouldn’t think he’d make sense on our roster, even at the exact same hypothetical price, if we still had last year’s roster. But we don’t, and we’re missing an elite forward.