The ROR Beatification Station and Exclusion Zone (Discussion of ROR trade goes here!)

[Beerz]

Confirmed with Link: - Ryan O'Reilly traded to STL for Tage Thompson, Patrik Berglund, Vladimir Sobotka, 2019 1st, 2021 2nd

33 % thought big win for the Blues
37% thought a win for the blues
Who knows how we qualify that. A lot of votes, far more than how many people regularly post.

The rest thought it was a win or big win for the sabres.

And if you actually read the posts, many regular posters thought it was a great deal....

Sheesh, a lot of dumb analysis on their regardless of success or failure of the outcome.

Thanks a lot.

I just re-read the first 10 pages of that thread and im pissed again.

 

[Jame]

no doubt it was stupid and everyone and their mother knew we were gonna regret the move. but there is more reason behind the stupidness beside Botts being a dum dum

that's not true 9% of people thought it was a win for the sabres. most of us knew it was terrible.

Yes. 10% thought the Sabres won the trade... and another 17% thought it was even... so there were quite a few (not including their mothers) who did NOT think we were gonna regret the trade

moving on....

 

[Fjordy]

OMG, there were people who were happy with this deal or said it was a good comeback.


My reaction was:

 

[Jame]

I read through the first 10 pages and only found 4-5 poster saying this was a win for the sabres, the others were just being optimistic if you're gonna argue semantics with me because i said "Everyone and their mother knew it was a bad" fine, Majority of us knew it was a bad trade, some people just tried looking on the bright side

I'll always push back against a narrative that "everyone" knew the ROR trade would be a disaster.

Pegula didn't
Botterill didn't
The Buffalo media didn't (go back and read Vogl, Harrington, etc)
This board didn't
Twitter didn't

Yes... a majority of "us" knew it.... but it was not an overwhelming majority by any means.

 

[Zman5778]

I'll always push back against a narrative that "everyone" knew the ROR trade would be a disaster.
This board didn't
Twitter didn't

Yes... a majority of "us" knew it.... but it was not an overwhelming majority by any means.

I think it was an extremely vocal minority that thought it wouldn't be a disaster. Most sane fans knew and either couldn't find the words to say anything or recognized it was worthless to say anything (or were too frozen in abject shock)

 

[lauraP]

I'll always push back against a narrative that "everyone" knew the ROR trade would be a disaster.

Pegula didn't
Botterill didn't
The Buffalo media didn't (go back and read Vogl, Harrington, etc)
This board didn't
Twitter didn't

Yes... a majority of "us" knew it.... but it was not an overwhelming majority by any means.

what do you want ? a pat on the back because you're apart of the majority of people that thought the ror trade was bad ?
you're either being extremely dishonest or trolling. look at the thread. the first 10 pages are people freaking out that we got 2 caps dumps back in the ror deal. the polls are their at about 71% bad trade for buffalo. i think this "narrative" is in your head.

 

[Jame]

what do you want ? a pat on the back because you're apart of the majority of people that thought the ror trade was bad ?
you're either being extremely dishonest or trolling. look at the thread. the first 10 pages are people freaking out that we got 2 caps dumps back in the ror deal. the polls are their at about 71% bad trade for buffalo. i think this "narrative" is in your head.

No pats needed, just death to bad narratives.

You could've simply accepted the evidence that was presented that NOT everyone thought it was a bad trade. In fact 30% thought it was fair or good for Buffalo.

Whose being dishonest here?

 

[lauraP]

No pats needed, just death to bad narratives.

You could've simply accepted the evidence that was presented that NOT everyone thought it was a bad trade. In fact 30% thought it was fair or good for Buffalo.

Whose being dishonest here?

I did actually right here.

I read through the first 10 pages and only found 4-5 poster saying this was a win for the sabres, the others were just being optimistic if you're gonna argue semantics with me because i said "Everyone and their mother knew it was a bad" fine, Majority of us knew it was a bad trade, some people just tried looking on the bright side

lol, like i said your arguing semantics because i said "Everyone and their mother knew it was a bad trade" but because you wanna be special/smart/right i guess along with the 72% majority you must let me know that "NOT EVERYONE MAMA KNEW ACTUALLY"

think we should move on from this.

 

[truthbluth]

I'll always push back against a narrative that "everyone" knew the ROR trade would be a disaster.

Pegula didn't
Botterill didn't
The Buffalo media didn't (go back and read Vogl, Harrington, etc)
This board didn't
Twitter didn't

Yes... a majority of "us" knew it.... but it was not an overwhelming majority by any means.

Two thoughts as to why your experience of the percentage of this board that liked the O'Reilly trade is greater than what others remember is that
A) you were alone on "Botterill sucks" island for a while
B) 100% of the people that argued with you back then were pro RoR trade

 

[Jame]

Two thoughts as to why your experience of the percentage of this board that liked the O'Reilly trade is greater than what others remember is that
A) you were alone on "Botterill sucks" island for a while
B) 100% of the people that argued with you back then were pro RoR trade

thats probably true

 

[Chainshot]

Two thoughts as to why your experience of the percentage of this board that liked the O'Reilly trade is greater than what others remember is that
A) you were alone on "Botterill sucks" island for a while
B) 100% of the people that argued with you back then were pro RoR trade

Alone?

 

[OkimLom]

I tend to believe, that even with the posters I disagree with on these boards here, that this place has a better finger on the pulse generally than any of the casual fans that listen/read the media outlets.

Fans that strictly listen to WGR or follow certain media members on twitter, have a, let's say "interesting" way of looking at things. Considering the amount of water the media carried for the Buffalo Sabres organization for this move, based on what I COULD remember, and my interactions with those types of fans, there was a lot bigger collection of those that believed the Sabres won the trade and not only that but also thought it was the right move. Compared to this board's opinion, it was swung the opposite way.

 

[Jim Bob]

They had to trade ROR because he and Eichel couldn’t get along, right?



Oops

 

[sufferer]

They had to trade ROR because he and Eichel couldn’t get along, right?



Oops

#fistbumpgate

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Truth bomb!

I also feel like the Pegula's are much more enamored with their football team, which is where they probably focus more of their attention these days.

why did my post get moved here when it had nothing to do with ROR? The post I quoted KINDA did but that post didn’t even get moved

 

[pigpen65]

I fall down laughing when people cite his not spectacular offensive numbers as some sort of indictment on ROR. He obliterated the record for most amount of hard minutes by a player in hockey history and had over a thousand defensive zone face offs in the past decade. Unless the opposing goalie is Brysgalov it's pretty difficult to rack up points in your own end.

And one thing that will never make any sense: if ownership was in fact forcing him to make this trade he had to know it would end up as the first line in the eventual obituary for his career as an NHL GM. Why did he not do everything in his power to convince the Pegulas not to force him to make such a terrible mistake?

Maybe ROR asked to be traded and getting a deal done before the bonus date just made the most logical sense

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

I convinced myself it was an OK trade at the time and made some comments as such but deep down I knew it wasn't, I was in the stage of denial that it actually happened.

 

[joshjull]

Stopped reading after the first sentence. If your central argument is that technically RoR hadn’t won a Conn Smythe yet then you aren’t worth arguing with on this topic.

There isn’t an analyst that I respect in the world that didn’t think RoR was a premier two way center in the league. Trading him was stupid at the time, and looks even more stupid now.

The only “experts” that matter in this situation are NHL GMs. Not many were interested in acquiring him. In fact only two had strong interest (Habs/Blues) prior to the bonus payment. Because when we were shopping him was a 24g 60pts center with very little playoff experience and reputation for being difficult. Or at least from a family with well documented history of being pains in the ass that NHL GMs were aware of.

So bringing up the Conn Smyth as if it matters to the interest or expected return at the time is fairly pointless. Or do you think if he was shopped now there would be the same level of interest as there was then? I’m going to go out on a limb and say the interest would be much greater.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

I convinced myself it was an OK trade at the time and made some comments as such but deep down I knew it wasn't, I was in the stage of denial that it actually happened.

ROR was easily one of my favorite players to don a Sabres jersey in the last 30 years. I have a soft spot for two way forwards, and I thought that Eichel and ROR would be an amazing pair to build around, especially once we got ROR locked up for 7 years.

With that said, the despair of Bylsma and Housley coaching drove the passion out of a lot of the fan base and players. I remember thinking that changes had to be made, and felt that something else was going on with ROR in the locker room. When the trade went down, I hated that we lost ROR, but I assumed that the team would be stronger with the added forward depth. Berglund had been a solid contributor throughout his career, and I had not seen much a Sobotka since he left the Bruins. Evidently our pro scouts were as poorly informed as I was.

What is truly remarkable about the trade is the impact it had in derailing 3 careers. Without it, Berglund would still be in the NHL, clearing 3.85M per year as a contributor on a lower line. Tage Thompson and Casey Middlestadt each would have been presented better development paths, instead of being placed in confidence-shattering positions.

 

[Fjordy]

Not many were interested in acquiring him. In fact only two had strong interest (Habs/Blues) prior to the bonus payment.

At least Arizona was interested, there was a video where Chayka is talking on the phone about ROR, maybe some other teams when players like ROR on the trading block, many teams who need a center will be interested. Carolina, after all, was also interested, if they did not want to pay the bonus, Pegula could pay it, because there was an article in Athletic that Botterill and Bean have full control over the team and deals.

 

[kenfury]

Alone?

Far from alone. Look at the trade thread. Confirmed with Link: - Ryan O'Reilly traded to STL for Tage Thompson, Patrik Berglund, Vladimir Sobotka, 2019 1st, 2021 2nd

33% had it as a big win for the blues, 38% had it as a win for the blues. Going through that thread also reminds me of why I value the opinion of some posters more than others.

 

[joshjull]

I assume you are aware that ROR's contract consists of a huge upfront yearly bonus, followed by a nominal 1 million a year salary. So basically any attempt to trade ROR at any time during this deal would present management/ownership with the same dilemma regarding the bonus. I also assume you're aware that ROR was paid 10 million per season for the first two years of his contract, and was due an average of 6.25 million in actual salary the next 5 years.

I’m well aware of how horribly structured the deal was if they ever wanted to trade him. But I doubt Murray even took that into consideration. Which I get. Its a big market/big money contract

Given that situation, I find it silly to paint management as hamstringing their GM by imposing a deadline on trading ROR before the 7 million dollar bonus for 2018-2019 kicked in. In fact, one could just as easily argue that Botterill had good leverage in a trade given that roughly 40% of ROR's contract had already been paid out, and that his actual salary would be almost 20% lower than his actual cap hit for the remaining 5 years. Given this context, why should ownership eat another 7 million in salary for a guy the GM -- and the GM only -- wants to trade? Especially when so much has been paid upfront to begin with? Why do some give Botts a pass because of the time/financial constraints of the trade due to the bonus, yet ignore the leverage he had due to the heavily front loaded nature of the deal which Buffalo already absorbed?

How much of his deal that had already been paid doesn’t really matter much to the view of NHL GMs in a trade. Can they fit in his cap hit going forward would matter. Plus the bonus makes the deal prohibitive for small market and budget teams. They would have to pay that out months before a dime of revenue comes in for that season. They would also still be sorting out the previous seasons budget.

There is no way a decision to trade ROR happens without owner input for the very reasons you laid out with how much he had already been paid. Its not remotely hard to imagine the owner agreeing to a trade while adding he wants it done before the bonus is paid out. Plus the reasons I think that led to the decision to trade him would very much put the owner in the mindset of not paying the bonus.

 

[sabrebuild]

I’m well aware of how horribly structured the deal was if they ever wanted to trade him. But I doubt Murray even took that into consideration. Which I get. Its a big market/big money contract




How much of his deal that had already been paid doesn’t really matter much to the view of NHL GMs in a trade. Can they fit in his cap hit going forward would matter. Plus the bonus makes the deal prohibitive for small market and budget teams. They would have to pay that out months before a dime of revenue comes in for that season. They would also still be sorting out the previous seasons budget.

There is no way a decision to trade ROR happens without owner input for the very reasons you laid out with how much he had already been paid. Its not remotely hard to imagine the owner agreeing to a trade while adding he wants it done before the bonus is paid out. Plus the reasons I think that led to the decision to trade him would very much put the owner in the mindset of not paying the bonus.

Glad to see that you finally can see that the owner boned us.

 

[OkimLom]

The only “experts” that matter in this situation are NHL GMs. Not many were interested in acquiring him. In fact only two had strong interest (Habs/Blues) prior to the bonus payment. Because when we were shopping him was a 24g 60pts center with very little playoff experience and reputation for being difficult. Or at least from a family with well documented history of being pains in the ass that NHL GMs were aware of.

So bringing up the Conn Smyth as if it matters to the interest or expected return at the time is fairly pointless. Or do you think if he was shopped now there would be the same level of interest as there was then? I’m going to go out on a limb and say the interest would be much greater.

Bolded:
For the GMs who are infatuated with "what have you done lately" viewpoints, the interest would be quite high and they would finally enter the "ring" to try and get a guy like ROR.

For the GMs that can evaluate the player and determine the likelihood of said player being a good player in the near future, I think the interest remains the same.

Everything else, not many teams had the hole he could fill for them AND had the cap space to take on his contract. Of course there's the bonus payment issue (which is funny to me), which I'm sure limited the parties that may have wanted to get involved. I am curious if Buffalo said we will pay THAT particular signing bonus, how many teams would've jumped in or made room to jump in for his services.

 

[joshjull]

Glad to see that you finally can see that the owner boned us.

Huh?

I’ve been talking about ownerships involvement in this for some time.