The ROR Beatification Station and Exclusion Zone (Discussion of ROR trade goes here!)

[Sabresfansince1980]

the funniest part is that people say they were in the trade to even out the cap..? and i'm like yeah? where the **** is the compensation for taking on 2 crap players with with millions compared to an elite player with millions....Thompson and a 1st that happened to be 32 as if to say **** you to all the Sabres fans after being at the bottom of the standings midseason.

Yeah, that's exactly why they were in the trade. And yeah, that's why the rest of the return for Buffalo wasn't good enough, except for Pegula since he saved himself 7 million.

 

[Panthaz89]

Yeah, that's exactly why they were in the trade. And yeah, that's why the rest of the return for Buffalo wasn't good enough, except for Pegula since he saved himself 7 million.

he doesn't save shit really in the long run when half the fan base won't even want to show up to games because of stupid decisions.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

he doesn't save **** really in the long run when half the fan base won't even want to show up to games because of stupid decisions.

It will be a long time before a lack of ticket sales comes anywhere near close to 7 mil.

 

[sabremike]

The "we were forced to trade him by ownership over those comments" narrative is completely debunked by the fact Botts was shopping him at the deadline. There is no defense for this trade. None. It makes Hall for Larsson look like an even swap in comparison.

 

[sabremike]

And the ultimate irony: as if by divine providence an elite goal scorer who is currently tearing up the OHL and carrying a team everyone thought would be terrible into playoff contention, the type of guy who could've completely redeemed this trade at pick #31 was miraculously right there for us to take. Instead Botts took a kid who may end up being a decent NHL player but has virtually no chance of ever being good enough to mitigate what a total disaster this trade was.

 

[Snippit]

I still don't know if we're going to ever actually recover from this.

When a team has so few good players, losing one completely without seeing anything substantive in return is devastating.

 

[K8fool]

Im sure its answered but count on enthusiasm for subject matter ror..

If we should have kept...yes the return is an epic fail but the league may know something the board doesnt that didnt flare up like herpes in st l or like apparently did in buff .. Colo.. Or he is un outed capernic on diet gov..additives biosolids flouride micro particles etc etc..

...then why did colorado and buff send away their awesome 2c... ? I really dont have the answer .. No sarcasm..

 

[explore]

This thread should be enshrined along with a note about not signing Briere and Drury. This has got to be a mistake that no Sabres GM, owners, or fans should make again.

 

[sabrebuild]

Im sure its answered but count on enthusiasm for subject matter ror..

If we should have kept...yes the return is an epic fail but the league may know something the board doesnt that didnt flare up like herpes in st l or like apparently did in buff .. Colo.. Or he is un outed capernic on diet gov..additives biosolids flouride micro particles etc etc..

...then why did colorado and buff send away their awesome 2c... ? I really dont have the answer .. No sarcasm..

Because rich owners and not smart gms don't like players who don't toe the line and do as told.

O'Reilly wore out his welcome in Colorado because he was a tough negotiation for contracts. And had the nerve to sign an offersheet, making it clear he wasn't the Avs "boy". They dumped him for our smorgasbord of meh picks and one good prospect. And then they suffered for another year, until Mackinnon took a huge leap and Mikko showed up as an equal beast.

The reasons for his departure here have been discussed ad nauseum. Part thru the BS of him quitting, off ice "issues" and being too "slow", and at the end of the day you have a gm who tried to the former gm's guy.

The short answer is this league is full of dummy executives who played at some level of pro and are not really good at their jobs.

 

[Kyndig]

I still don't know if we're going to ever actually recover from this.

When a team has so few good players, losing one completely without seeing anything substantive in return is devastating.

Islanders seem to be doing ok.

 

[OkimLom]

Im sure its answered but count on enthusiasm for subject matter ror..

If we should have kept...yes the return is an epic fail but the league may know something the board doesnt that didnt flare up like herpes in st l or like apparently did in buff .. Colo.. Or he is un outed capernic on diet gov..additives biosolids flouride micro particles etc etc..

...then why did colorado and buff send away their awesome 2c... ? I really dont have the answer .. No sarcasm..

Depends on who you ask and how you’re looking at the situation. if you ask both fanbases there’s a multitude of reasons of why they justify him being gone. We are only privy to certain information. Seems the basic reasoning why the teams got rid of him focus only on his off-ice moments (contract negotiations, his attitude in the room for example). I don’t think either team had issues with his on-ice contributions.

 

[K8fool]

Because rich owners and not smart gms don't like players who don't toe the line and do as told.

O'Reilly wore out his welcome in Colorado because he was a tough negotiation for contracts. And had the nerve to sign an offersheet, making it clear he wasn't the Avs "boy". They dumped him for our smorgasbord of meh picks and one good prospect. And then they suffered for another year, until Mackinnon took a huge leap and Mikko showed up as an equal beast.

The reasons for his departure here have been discussed ad nauseum. Part thru the BS of him quitting, off ice "issues" and being too "slow", and at the end of the day you have a gm who tried to the former gm's guy.

The short answer is this league is full of dummy executives who played at some level of pro and are not really good at their jobs.

Thanks.

 

[K8fool]

Depends on who you ask and how you’re looking at the situation. if you ask both fanbases there’s a multitude of reasons of why they justify him being gone. We are only privy to certain information. Seems the basic reasoning why the teams got rid of him focus only on his off-ice moments (contract negotiations, his attitude in the room for example). I don’t think either team had issues with his on-ice contributions.

Thanks .. Asked because ive seen the best athlete in the room removed because of attitude of apathy to reignite college program.. Im hoping in time whoever it was with us either doses and has introspective bummer and changes or he was removed as bills did one year earlier as template pegulas followed.. I want all takes ..strange .

 

[sabrebuild]

Thanks .. Asked because ive seen the best athlete in the room removed because of attitude of apathy to reignite college program.. Im hoping in time whoever it was with us either doses and has introspective bummer and changes or he was removed as bills did one year earlier as template pegulas followed.. I want all takes ..strange .

To add to the in the room concerns, that has only ever been mentioned after teams were trying to move him, but specific to hockey execs and some players, O'Reilly like Hamilton have the distinction of being somewhat weird intellectual types. Literally in Hamilton's case stories came out that his Calgary teammates and him didn't get along because he would go to museums on road trips.

One interesting thing about hockey players, they like to party and they like to drink. Ovechkin just spent a whole summer being black out drunk publicly. An article in The Athletic just came out talking about how coke and Molly are on the rise in the league.

 

[Dreakon13]

The "we were forced to trade him by ownership over those comments" narrative is completely debunked by the fact Botts was shopping him at the deadline.

It doesn't completely debunk it and the reason why has been explained over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Shopping him is harmless. Pulling the trigger on a bad return was the problem, one pretty firmly connected to the bonus (given the deadline) and ownership (given they'd be the only ones to care about real dollars).

EDIT: Oh, you said the comments specifically. I think the comments contributed to the Pegulas wanting him gone and not wanting to pay the bonus. Whether Botts floated RORs name out there at the TDL is irrelevant.

 

[K8fool]

To add to the in the room concerns, that has only ever been mentioned after teams were trying to move him, but specific to hockey execs and some players, O'Reilly like Hamilton have the distinction of being somewhat weird intellectual types. Literally in Hamilton's case stories came out that his Calgary teammates and him didn't get along because he would go to museums on road trips.

One interesting thing about hockey players, they like to party and they like to drink. Ovechkin just spent a whole summer being black out drunk publicly. An article in The Athletic just came out talking about how coke and Molly are on the rise in the league.

This.. We are narrowing in on the truth of culture and the species of hockey ignorance weirdness of sporto tools..to burnt out jock to .. Vegan intellectuals to the immoral and milquetoast aa they finally have a summer or two to figure out who they are and mgmt DREAD of their influence on the human capital investments ... The truth is coming.. Thanks also.. This gives interesting POSSIBLE picture of where we are headed as do the current bills..(are due across the board)

If they just would have throw out the molly saved the coke til morning risking some personal uncertainty and dosed them all w liquid before this interesting ror outlier"left, they may have all agreed on something.. ..

 

[darcyRegier]

The "we were forced to trade him by ownership over those comments" narrative is completely debunked by the fact Botts was shopping him at the deadline. There is no defense for this trade. None. It makes Hall for Larsson look like an even swap in comparison.

It’s worse than Hall for Larsson. At least Edmonton got a decent player in return.

 

[toomuchsauce]

this organization just will not stop making bad decisions. every time they decide to do something...or not do something...it's a f***ing disaster. looking back on the ROR trade, it's clear this was a monumental red flag that at the time - and, we even knew was a red flag at the time - but just didn't appreciate how much of a red flag it was. the canary in the coal mine. I can't even come up with an analogy for it, because my brain is smooth as an egg from thinking about this organization for the last decade.

 

[toomuchsauce]

i mean, Tim Murray was the opposite of Darcy, so he comes in and hires a Stanley-Cup-winning coach, makes big trades and acquires star forwards and a highly-touted goalie prospect, but the team still sucks. He gets fired because he cursed too much and Bylsma gets fired because he held meetings about having meetings or whatever, and so the new GM comes in and is the opposite of murray - he doesn't curse at all and in fact talks like a business school robot with a limited vocabulary, he undoes all the *good* trades the previous GM made, but not the bad ones, yet he gets nothing of value in return, makes numerous small trades that have seemingly no effect on anything at all, and the team still sucks. And now he won't make any f***ing trades because trades are back to being hard, and we're back to being exactly where we were when Darcy got fired (slightly underachieving, moody American superstar, no prospects to speak of, boring on-ice product, constantly drafting low-ceiling defensemen). and they never learn anything, they just lurch from one extreme to the other and back again. goddamn sisyphus made more progress than the buffalo sabres

 

[toomuchsauce]

rebuild the defense! rebuild the forwards! why hoard? why waste? etc., forever

 

[sabremike]

It will be a long time before a lack of ticket sales comes anywhere near close to 7 mil.

The team being such an embarrassment that kids throughout the GBA will be waking up on Christmas morning to find the Auston Matthews jersey they asked for because they are now huge Leafs (or any other team except the Sabres) fans is going to cost them far far more than that in the long run. Penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[Buffaloed]

The "we were forced to trade him by ownership over those comments" narrative is completely debunked by the fact Botts was shopping him at the deadline. There is no defense for this trade. None. It makes Hall for Larsson look like an even swap in comparison.

The trade was forced by ownership narrative is speculation. The Pegula's have seen all the heat Botterill has taken over. If they directed it I think they'd come out and say so.

ROR snippet from Q&A with Tim Graham
The Satchel: Tim Graham answers your questions on Mogilny's... (paywall)

There is a feeling that Terry Pegula did not want an experienced GM and did not hire a hockey president because he wants to have the last word in all the player matters (trades, salary, etc). With a first-time GM and no president, Pegula is the guy who takes the last decision, and I think the abrupt and unfortunate Ryan O’Reilly trade it is on Pegula, not on Botts. What is your insight? — Sergiu S.
People I trust tell me this is inaccurate. In fact, Terry Pegula has been increasingly hands-off over the years with both the Sabres and Bills. He hires executives to do those jobs and lets them work without meddling.
Pegula has final say over every personnel move; that is any owner’s prerogative. But insight from those who know insist Pegula provides Sabres GM Jason Botterill and Bills GM Brandon Beane all the latitude and resources they wish.
Many folks are upset the Pegulas haven’t installed a hockey or football czar above Botterill or Beane, or haven’t hired another president since Russ Brandon’s firing. I don’t understand why this is a controversial issue. The term “president” isn’t consistently applied throughout sports. A president with one club might be what another team calls its general manager or its vice president of hockey operations. Some presidents handle only the business and carry zero sway on sports decisions. Botterill and Beane are in charge, so there’s no need for a president, no purpose for another layer in between either GM and the Pegulas.
Why was Ryan O’Reilly traded? — John M.
In retrospect, the trade was stone-cold stupid. At the time, though, O’Reilly’s standing in Buffalo was far more complicated. O’Reilly forced himself onto the trading block with his controversial comment about losing his love for the game. A vocal percentage of fans wanted him gone immediately, a sentiment I doubt they’ll fess up to now. Even so, his comments were a legitimate concern that reflected poorly on the organization. The Sabres felt obligated to remove a distraction that would have endured the entire offseason and bled into the next.

 

[sabrebuild]

The trade was forced by ownership narrative is speculation. The Pegula's have seen all the heat Botterill has taken over. If they directed it I think they'd come out and say so.

ROR snippet from Q&A with Tim Graham
The Satchel: Tim Graham answers your questions on Mogilny's... (paywall)

There is a feeling that Terry Pegula did not want an experienced GM and did not hire a hockey president because he wants to have the last word in all the player matters (trades, salary, etc). With a first-time GM and no president, Pegula is the guy who takes the last decision, and I think the abrupt and unfortunate Ryan O’Reilly trade it is on Pegula, not on Botts. What is your insight? — Sergiu S.
People I trust tell me this is inaccurate. In fact, Terry Pegula has been increasingly hands-off over the years with both the Sabres and Bills. He hires executives to do those jobs and lets them work without meddling.
Pegula has final say over every personnel move; that is any owner’s prerogative. But insight from those who know insist Pegula provides Sabres GM Jason Botterill and Bills GM Brandon Beane all the latitude and resources they wish.
Many folks are upset the Pegulas haven’t installed a hockey or football czar above Botterill or Beane, or haven’t hired another president since Russ Brandon’s firing. I don’t understand why this is a controversial issue. The term “president” isn’t consistently applied throughout sports. A president with one club might be what another team calls its general manager or its vice president of hockey operations. Some presidents handle only the business and carry zero sway on sports decisions. Botterill and Beane are in charge, so there’s no need for a president, no purpose for another layer in between either GM and the Pegulas.
Why was Ryan O’Reilly traded? — John M.
In retrospect, the trade was stone-cold stupid. At the time, though, O’Reilly’s standing in Buffalo was far more complicated. O’Reilly forced himself onto the trading block with his controversial comment about losing his love for the game. A vocal percentage of fans wanted him gone immediately, a sentiment I doubt they’ll fess up to now. Even so, his comments were a legitimate concern that reflected poorly on the organization. The Sabres felt obligated to remove a distraction that would have endured the entire offseason and bled into the next.

Hey at least Graham said it directly. Would love to see Vogl have the courage to admit he was a dumbass.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

I wish Graham did more Sabres coverage.

The trade was forced by ownership narrative is speculation. The Pegula's have seen all the heat Botterill has taken over. If they directed it I think they'd come out and say so.

ROR snippet from Q&A with Tim Graham
The Satchel: Tim Graham answers your questions on Mogilny's... (paywall)

There is a feeling that Terry Pegula did not want an experienced GM and did not hire a hockey president because he wants to have the last word in all the player matters (trades, salary, etc). With a first-time GM and no president, Pegula is the guy who takes the last decision, and I think the abrupt and unfortunate Ryan O’Reilly trade it is on Pegula, not on Botts. What is your insight? — Sergiu S.
People I trust tell me this is inaccurate. In fact, Terry Pegula has been increasingly hands-off over the years with both the Sabres and Bills. He hires executives to do those jobs and lets them work without meddling.
Pegula has final say over every personnel move; that is any owner’s prerogative. But insight from those who know insist Pegula provides Sabres GM Jason Botterill and Bills GM Brandon Beane all the latitude and resources they wish.
Many folks are upset the Pegulas haven’t installed a hockey or football czar above Botterill or Beane, or haven’t hired another president since Russ Brandon’s firing. I don’t understand why this is a controversial issue. The term “president” isn’t consistently applied throughout sports. A president with one club might be what another team calls its general manager or its vice president of hockey operations. Some presidents handle only the business and carry zero sway on sports decisions. Botterill and Beane are in charge, so there’s no need for a president, no purpose for another layer in between either GM and the Pegulas.
Why was Ryan O’Reilly traded? — John M.
In retrospect, the trade was stone-cold stupid. At the time, though, O’Reilly’s standing in Buffalo was far more complicated. O’Reilly forced himself onto the trading block with his controversial comment about losing his love for the game. A vocal percentage of fans wanted him gone immediately, a sentiment I doubt they’ll fess up to now. Even so, his comments were a legitimate concern that reflected poorly on the organization. The Sabres felt obligated to remove a distraction that would have endured the entire offseason and bled into the next.

Hey at least Graham said it directly. Would love to see Vogl have the courage to admit he was a dumbass.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

By any reasonable and rational measure, trading away a conne smythe winning top 6 center for a very poor return, while creating a giant hole at exactly that position, and then failing to make the playoffs, or even improve the team’s record, in any of your 3 seasons at the helm would be a Fireable offense. If he’s not fired, it’s because ownership would rather have a nice GM than a good one.

Truth bomb!

I also feel like the Pegula's are much more enamored with their football team, which is where they probably focus more of their attention these days.