The ROR Beatification Station and Exclusion Zone (Discussion of ROR trade goes here!)

[joshjull]

@slip

Armstrong’s take on how things played out from their pov was in an article by the Blues beat reporter.

He (Armstrong) thought the trade was dead days before it took place. So he moved on top other moves because he had a roster to fill out (like signing Bozak). He was surprised to get a call from Botts the day of the trade. I think it was 6 hours before the bonus was due.

Armstrong had already added players, so whatever they had worked out before wouldn’t work without us taking on cap hits. I just find it incredibly hard to believe Botts would be that desperate to unload ROR before the bonus unless he was told to do so. Calling Armstrong back like that roughly 6 hrs before the bonus was due strikes me as very desperate.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

When you thought the ROR trade couldn't get any worse, its lingering effects can be felt to this day in more nuanced, pervasive ways by witnessing the segmentation and dividing of our fellow board members into the 2 camps of:

1.) I told you it was **** from day 1, I have smart hockey knowledge because I'm a smart knowledgeable hockey person (Us)

2.) Well I've been wrong before I did think it was s*** just a little bit (them)

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

When you thought the ROR trade couldn't get any worse, its lingering effects can be felt to this day in more nuanced, pervasive ways by witnessing the segmentation and dividing of our fellow board members into the 2 camps of:

1.) I told you it was **** from day 1, I have smart hockey knowledge because I'm a smart knowledgeable hockey person (Us)

2.) Well I've been wrong before I did think it was s*** just a little bit (them)

Actually there's a third camp that still thinks the trade was ok because we ended up getting Colin Miller and Ryan Johnson out of it...

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

Actually there's a third camp that still thinks the trade was ok because we ended up getting Colin Miller and Ryan Johnson out of it...

​

1000% of me is done even talking about this trade. Beating a very dead horse at this point. It was a disaster, it sucked I'm over it

ps previous post was sarcasm thought I could add light to this morbid thread

 

[truthbluth]

Alone?

By the time of the trade, the numbers had grown considerably, but Jame was the trailblazer on this particular opinion I think.

 

[sabrebuild]

By the time of the trade, the numbers had grown considerably, but Jame was the trailblazer on this particular opinion I think.

I'm going to give credit to @struckbyaparkedcar , wherever they are as the true trailblazer. He was noting significant inefficiency from day one by botts not going after small improvements and just letting bums populate the fwd group in year one.

Jame, pff, at best 2-5th in line, liking the Housley move, shame on him.ha

 

[Beerz]

@slip

Armstrong’s take on how things played out from their pov was in an article by the Blues beat reporter.

He (Armstrong) thought the trade was dead days before it took place. So he moved on top other moves because he had a roster to fill out (like signing Bozak). He was surprised to get a call from Botts the day of the trade. I think it was 6 hours before the bonus was due.

Armstrong had already added players, so whatever they had worked out before wouldn’t work without us taking on cap hits. I just find it incredibly hard to believe Botts would be that desperate to unload ROR before the bonus unless he was told to do so. Calling Armstrong back like that roughly 6 hrs before the bonus was due strikes me as very desperate.

Jason: Hi Terry.. i know im new here but i feel we need a culture change. I need to put my stamp on this team. I'm thinking about trading ROR. Thoughts?

Terry: Hi Jason.. we hired you to do a job. We trust your abilities and will not get in the way. However..if you do decide to trade Ryan.. it must be done before his bonus kicks in next offseason. That gives you plenty of time.

Jason: Thanks, Dad. I won't let you down.

 

[SundherDome]

Jason: Hi Terry.. i know im new here but i feel we need a culture change. I need to put my stamp on this team. I'm thinking about trading ROR. Thoughts?

Terry: Hi Jason.. we hired you to do a job. We trust your abilities and will not get in the way. However..if you do decide to trade Ryan.. it must be done before his bonus kicks in next offseason. That gives you plenty of time.

Jason: Thanks, Dad. I won't let you down.

Narrator voice: He let him down.

 

[Chainshot]

By the time of the trade, the numbers had grown considerably, but Jame was the trailblazer on this particular opinion I think.

I have been displeased with him by the end of his first summer and openly hostile by the end of his first October at Housley. I just tried to be less abrasive about it.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I have been displeased with him by the end of his first summer and openly hostile by the end of his first October at Housley. I just tried to be less abrasive about it.

Keeping Housley really left a sour taste in my mouth. Trading RoR was the nail in the coffin.

 

[sufferer]

I mean, couldn't even get Dunn or Kyrou and threw them McCabe or something? Apparently Thomas was unquestionably off the table, even for a guy of ROR's caliber. So ridiculously one-sided. And the pick being top-10 protected was just the perfect touch of hilarity. Why are we so cursed, bros?

 

[mechaworm]

I mean, couldn't even get Dunn or Kyrou and threw them McCabe or something? Apparently Thomas was unquestionably off the table, even for a guy of ROR's caliber. So ridiculously one-sided. And the pick being top-10 protected was just the perfect touch of hilarity. Why are we so cursed, bros?

STL held their top 8 trade assets off the table in a deal for a #1C. It was absurd. And Botts never should have pursued negotiations in that case.

It's also absurd, it must be said, that we couldn't get another team to beat that price. Montreal was approached for 3OA. Montreal was hungry for a 1C. Montreal is still hungry for a 1C. If Montreal could redo that negotiation now, seeing that as soon as ROR wasn't on a team covering for the entire worst defensive unit in the league and a dipso goalie, he became a Selke/Conn Smythe winner, I have little doubt Montreal would make that deal.

And we'd be sitting here with Brady Tkachuk. And I tell you, I don't think ROR would lead us to the playoffs if we could get him for free right now, so I'd still rather have a Brady Tkachuk who's 9 years younger at this point.

 

[Jame]

STL held their top 8 trade assets off the table in a deal for a #1C. It was absurd. And Botts never should have pursued negotiations in that case.

It's also absurd, it must be said, that we couldn't get another team to beat that price. Montreal was approached for 3OA. Montreal was hungry for a 1C. Montreal is still hungry for a 1C. If Montreal could redo that negotiation now, seeing that as soon as ROR wasn't on a team covering for the entire worst defensive unit in the league and a dipso goalie, he became a Selke/Conn Smythe winner, I have little doubt Montreal would make that deal.

And we'd be sitting here with Brady Tkachuk. And I tell you, I don't think ROR would lead us to the playoffs if we could get him for free right now, so I'd still rather have a Brady Tkachuk who's 9 years younger at this point.

Rumor was Montreal offered Danault, Poehling, and a 2nd.... but Botts had to have a 1st in the deal. Montreal was willing to pay the bonus.

Danault alone is better than the entire package he got from Stl... obviously

 

[OkimLom]

STL held their top 8 trade assets off the table in a deal for a #1C. It was absurd. And Botts never should have pursued negotiations in that case.

It's also absurd, it must be said, that we couldn't get another team to beat that price. Montreal was approached for 3OA. Montreal was hungry for a 1C. Montreal is still hungry for a 1C. If Montreal could redo that negotiation now, seeing that as soon as ROR wasn't on a team covering for the entire worst defensive unit in the league and a dipso goalie, he became a Selke/Conn Smythe winner, I have little doubt Montreal would make that deal.

And we'd be sitting here with Brady Tkachuk. And I tell you, I don't think ROR would lead us to the playoffs if we could get him for free right now, so I'd still rather have a Brady Tkachuk who's 9 years younger at this point.

Or if you believe the story that Botts came back to Armstrong at the "last hour" after previous talks; If I was Armstrong, I would for sure limit the pieces now available, especially since I had done multiple moves to shore up the holes on my roster, and didn't NEED ROR, but I'm not going to immediately decline and opportunity to improve the team even more. With that said I'm not going to pressure myself in giving up the farm for him if I don't have to.

It's the risk of deciding to wait to get a better offer later, and when nobody wants to dance, well, here we are.

I would love to know what would happen to Botterill if he told Pegula he can't trade ROR. Would Pegula fire him on the spot and risk the PR of being THAT type of owner?

 

[mechaworm]

It's the risk of deciding to wait to get a better offer later, and when nobody wants to dance, well, here we are.

It all sounds very reminiscent of some team that carries 10 NHL defenders and presumes the trade suitors are going to just line up out the door.

Say what you will about Do-Nothing-Darcy, he did actually sell pretty f***ing high.

 

[mechaworm]

Rumor was Montreal offered Danault, Poehling, and a 2nd.... but Botts had to have a 1st in the deal. Montreal was willing to pay the bonus.

Danault alone is better than the entire package he got from Stl... obviously

Agreed if your aim is still to compete right now. The whole premise of an ROR deal is to delay your window. You do not deal ROR to get better in the near term.

 

[The Red Helmet]

People say they are over it but I will not be over it until Botterill is gone. He is a terrible GM and I will have a hard time believing the Sabres will ever be Cup contenders with him at the helm. The longer he is here, the more time we waste on Jack's contract without sniffing a Championship or even the playoffs. Seriously, does everyone on here think there is no chance Jack is going to want out if say we miss the playoffs this year and next?

We are wasting the player we tanked for. We have 6 years after this one before he contract is up. How many tears will we actually be able to contend for the cup with Jack under contract? It's looking like zero. We may round into a playoff team in a year or two but Botterill the Butcher is an albatross on this team. Hire Gillis, hire whoever as the Pres and let them bring in their GM. Enough of this garbage. It could not be more clear that Botts is in over his head.

 

[Chainshot]

Agreed if your aim is still to compete right now. The whole premise of an ROR deal is to delay your window. You do not deal ROR to get better in the near term.

Which remains Botterill's massive stupidity in all of this. The league doesn't reward kicking the can down the road year upon year. It never has, it likely never will.

 

[Chainshot]

Botterill got caved on the trade value, which if we look at the history of his deals has been consistent. He's given away useful NHLers for less than what the market bears for similar talent repeatedly but O'Reilly was the worst of them all.

 

[Aladyyn]

Agreed if your aim is still to compete right now. The whole premise of an ROR deal is to delay your window. You do not deal ROR to get better in the near term.

What window?

 

[mechaworm]

What window?

The window we clearly didn't have and have not since gained.

 

[mechaworm]

Which remains Botterill's massive stupidity in all of this. The league doesn't reward kicking the can down the road year upon year. It never has, it likely never will.

I mean, it depends. We could've extended Miller/Vanek/Pominville and kept chasing the Shane Doans and Brad Richards of the world. Not that we've exactly gotten rewarded, but there's good times to get younger.

 

[Jame]

Agreed if your aim is still to compete right now. The whole premise of an ROR deal is to delay your window. You do not deal ROR to get better in the near term.

"Delaying your window" as a plan... is idiotic.

 

[Jame]

I mean, it depends. We could've extended Miller/Vanek/Pominville and kept chasing the Shane Doans and Brad Richards of the world. Not that we've exactly gotten rewarded, but there's good times to get younger.

That's not "Delaying your window".... that's acknowledging the window is shut, and there is no point trying to open it with this group.

With Eichel entering his prime, and ROR in his prime... you don't delay anything, you work to pry that f***er open.

 

[sabrebuild]

I mean, it depends. We could've extended Miller/Vanek/Pominville and kept chasing the Shane Doans and Brad Richards of the world. Not that we've exactly gotten rewarded, but there's good times to get younger.

Sure, but that time is never when your elite players are in their prime and under contract.

Followed up by, if you want to kick the can down the road, not compete because the depth is so bad, then you absolutely don't take crappy contracts and low end futures.

You also don't then follow it up by trading assets for a veteran the same age you just moved, who is not under contract....

It just was so dumb. Short term, long term. Stupid.

Believe the narrative that grew here that the organization has never publicly said, still unbelievably stupid. Just hold onto him until a deal fits. There is zero chance that keeping O'Reilly into the season would hurt the locker room long term and the deal you made absolutely hurt you short term, so the long game is the only one that makes sense.

Sad face.