Confirmed with Link: The Riot | Part III

[Shady Machine]

A 2nd and a 5th for Petry for Despres for Petry @ 50% retained? Methinks if JR had offered that, Edmonton would've eaten the 50% and taken Despres over a 2nd and a 5th every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Uhh and then Petry walks in the off season. That's just as bad, if not a worse trade. That is a definite all in trade. At least with Lovejoy, you have him for another season at an affordable clip.

 

[Shady Machine]

Getting sadder and sadder.

 

[The Greatest 101]

If they don't play Lovejoy in top 4,I truly don't understand this trade.Maybe they just want to find Pouliot a mentor?I saw ducks fans say Lovejoy is a good mentor for young players.Would be interesting to see the lineups after Ehrhoff back.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah it will be interesting to see what they do when everyone is healthy. Is Pouliot just a placeholder for Ehrhoff? That's what I am leaning towards.

Martin-Letang
Ehrhoff-Lovejoy
Scuderi-Cole

That would be my guess.

 

[IcedCapp]

Let's talk about Simon Despres and Rob Scuderi and the penalty kill.

Now, please understand that 1) LOLOL STATS SHUT UP NERD and 2) Simon Despres only has 40 minutes of PK time this year, so I had to include last year (when he was significantly-worse on the PK) to get him up to a QUALIFYING SAMPLE SIZE. So understand that Despres' numbers are based around an incredibly-small sample size.


Here we can see the Penguins 4-on-5 SH numbers for this year (includes acquisitions, does not include players traded away). These are the shot numbers. The link should be sorted by shots against-per-60

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=24&type=shots&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

A few things to note:

1) Ben Lovejoy, over a pretty small 66 minute sample, is pretty good at denying shots.
2) Rob Scuderi is the worst on the team.
3) Lol Brandon Sutter

4) Not as important, but Scuderi doesn't generate much shorthanded offense


Here is the Ducks' page. Note that I had to make it for the 2013-2014 season PLUS the 2014-2015 season to get Simon the required 50 minutes of SH TOI to qualify.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...s=50&teamid=1&type=shots&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC


1) Despres would be 4th-worse on the Penguins, but would be higher than Rob Scuderi and Christian Ehrhoff

2) As we'll talk about later, Despres' numbers are better in the 2014-2015 season than the 2013-2014 season, I simply can't put one on this chart without the other.

3) Not as important, but Simon Despres generates more shots than Scuderi, and more shots than all but Lovejoy, Martin and Sutter. The Penguins, in general, don't generate a lot of shots on the PK. (Look at the Ducks numbers, for contrast. They generate a lot more shorthanded scoring chances)

Now let's look at SH scoring

Here is the Pens table, sorted by PP GA/60

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=24&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

1) Christian Ehrhoff and Ben Lovejoy top this list! So does Craig Adamsssssssss omg PK specialist.

2) Rob Scuderi is, again, last. Paul Martin and lol Brandon Sutter are also low.

3) Again not as important, but Rob Scuderi generates .34 SHG/60.

Duck's page

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...s=50&teamid=1&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC


1) Despres is at 3.68, which is 2nd-best on the Ducks. Would be 3rd-best on the Penguins.

2) Despres' numbers for THIS YEAR ONLY: 3.052ga/60

3) Again, not as important, but Simon Despres generates 1.526 GF/60. This number would lead the Penguins.

___________________________________

I am not saying the Simon Despres is a great PKer. I am not saying that Simon Despres is a good PKer. In fact, I am not making any judgments on Simon Despres' PK ability, other than to say: the Penguins only gave Despres 40 minutes of PK time this year. The numbers he produced during that time, in terms of shots and goals for and against should have been enough to prompt the team to give him more time to either prove the PK was that good with him or to show that those numbers were a fluke.

Conversely, the people who got a significant portion of the Penguins PK time were not elite. They weren't good. They weren't even average relative to their peers in anything but the total amount of ice time they were given.

My biggest gripe about this trade - other than, you know, the fact that he was traded at all and the return - is that the Penguins made the clear and conscious decision to keep Rob Scuderi over Simon Despres because he's a rock-steady Dman and a PK stalwart.

The only way in which Rob Scuderi is rock steady is his skating, which is tectonic-plate like in speed.

 

[The Old Master]

Let's talk about Simon Despres and Rob Scuderi and the penalty kill.

Now, please understand that 1) LOLOL STATS SHUT UP NERD and 2) Simon Despres only has 40 minutes of PK time this year, so I had to include last year (when he was significantly-worse on the PK) to get him up to a QUALIFYING SAMPLE SIZE. So understand that Despres' numbers are based around an incredibly-small sample size.


Here we can see the Penguins 4-on-5 SH numbers for this year (includes acquisitions, does not include players traded away). These are the shot numbers. The link should be sorted by shots against-per-60

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=24&type=shots&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

A few things to note:

1) Ben Lovejoy, over a pretty small 66 minute sample, is pretty good at denying shots.
2) Rob Scuderi is the worst on the team.
3) Lol Brandon Sutter

4) Not as important, but Scuderi doesn't generate much shorthanded offense


Here is the Ducks' page. Note that I had to make it for the 2013-2014 season PLUS the 2014-2015 season to get Simon the required 50 minutes of SH TOI to qualify.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...s=50&teamid=1&type=shots&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC


1) Despres would be 4th-worse on the Penguins, but would be higher than Rob Scuderi and Christian Ehrhoff

2) As we'll talk about later, Despres' numbers are better in the 2014-2015 season than the 2013-2014 season, I simply can't put one on this chart without the other.

3) Not as important, but Simon Despres generates more shots than Scuderi, and more shots than all but Lovejoy, Martin and Sutter. The Penguins, in general, don't generate a lot of shots on the PK. (Look at the Ducks numbers, for contrast. They generate a lot more shorthanded scoring chances)

Now let's look at SH scoring

Here is the Pens table, sorted by PP GA/60

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...=50&teamid=24&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

1) Christian Ehrhoff and Ben Lovejoy top this list! So does Craig Adamsssssssss omg PK specialist.

2) Rob Scuderi is, again, last. Paul Martin and lol Brandon Sutter are also low.

3) Again not as important, but Rob Scuderi generates .34 SHG/60.

Duck's page

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...s=50&teamid=1&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC


1) Despres is at 3.68, which is 2nd-best on the Ducks. Would be 3rd-best on the Penguins.

2) Despres' numbers for THIS YEAR ONLY: 3.052ga/60

3) Again, not as important, but Simon Despres generates 1.526 GF/60. This number would lead the Penguins.

___________________________________

I am not saying the Simon Despres is a great PKer. I am not saying that Simon Despres is a good PKer. In fact, I am not making any judgments on Simon Despres' PK ability, other than to say: the Penguins only gave Despres 40 minutes of PK time this year. The numbers he produced during that time, in terms of shots and goals for and against should have been enough to prompt the team to give him more time to either prove the PK was that good with him or to show that those numbers were a fluke.

Conversely, the people who got a significant portion of the Penguins PK time were not elite. They weren't good. They weren't even average relative to their peers in anything but the total amount of ice time they were given.

My biggest gripe about this trade - other than, you know, the fact that he was traded at all and the return - is that the Penguins made the clear and conscious decision to keep Rob Scuderi over Simon Despres because he's a rock-steady Dman and a PK stalwart.

The only way in which Rob Scuderi is rock steady is his skating, which is tectonic-plate like in speed.

just when I think I'm starting to heel, you come and tear out the stiches! Thanks.
so ya, I'm still pissed.
edit; its a good thing the teams on the road. imo

 

[The Greatest 101]

Yeah it will be interesting to see what they do when everyone is healthy. Is Pouliot just a placeholder for Ehrhoff? That's what I am leaning towards.

Martin-Letang
Ehrhoff-Lovejoy
Scuderi-Cole

That would be my guess.

I think Cole will get scratched.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

Has anyone been able to confirm if Despres is a RFA or UFA after 2015-2016 season?

 

[Shady Machine]

I think Cole will get scratched.

It's certainly possible, but if that's the case, wouldn't Pouliot be playing with Scuderi? Or I guess Scuds can move up with Ehrhoff. The problem is the only guy that logically makes sense to play with Scuderi is Cole or Lovejoy due to playing the right side. They obviously won't scratch Scuderi, so it's tough to get a read on what will happen.

 

[Shady Machine]

Has anyone been able to confirm if Despres is a RFA or UFA after 2015-2016 season?

It depends what you mean by confirm. If you mean by the reading of the CBA and other outlets, other than DK making **** up, then yes it's been confirmed he's an RFA. If you mean official quote from a team, then no.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I am not saying the Simon Despres is a great PKer. I am not saying that Simon Despres is a good PKer. In fact, I am not making any judgments on Simon Despres' PK ability, other than to say: the Penguins only gave Despres 40 minutes of PK time this year. The numbers he produced during that time, in terms of shots and goals for and against should have been enough to prompt the team to give him more time to either prove the PK was that good with him or to show that those numbers were a fluke.

Conversely, the people who got a significant portion of the Penguins PK time were not elite. They weren't good. They weren't even average relative to their peers in anything but the total amount of ice time they were given.

My biggest gripe about this trade - other than, you know, the fact that he was traded at all and the return - is that the Penguins made the clear and conscious decision to keep Rob Scuderi over Simon Despres because he's a rock-steady Dman and a PK stalwart.

The only way in which Rob Scuderi is rock steady is his skating, which is tectonic-plate like in speed.

I think it's interesting how Despres started getting time on the PK in Anaheim right away, but wasn't trusted here. He had 2:02 on the PK last night (tied with Cam for most among dmen).

It's really bizarre to me how this organization views killing penalties as something sacred.

 

[Pens1566]

Related to this, we now no longer have the "organizational strength" of a deep roster of d prospects. Gone.

 

[wgknestrick]

Related to this, we now no longer have the "organizational strength" of a deep roster of d prospects. Gone.

We no longer have "organizational strength".

 

[IcedCapp]

I think it's interesting how Despres started getting time on the PK in Anaheim right away, but wasn't trusted here. He had 2:02 on the PK last night (tied with Cam for most among dmen).

It's really bizarre to me how this organization views killing penalties as something sacred.

I think killing penalties is important and should be treated with importance, but the people they think are good at killing penalties are not that good at it. This happens every year, by the way. They run the same sacred cows out there, and it sort of works during the regular season because during the 82-game regular season, you're playing enough bad teams to level out your PK%. But once you remove all of the bad teams (not the bad PPs, just the bad teams), and you have to be on the PK with useless players in a 7-game series where they will plan and scheme to exploit Scuderi and Adams, etc... that's when you notice

 

[MtlPenFan]

I don't get the analysis of Lovejoy's game. We saw enough of him his first go around to see what he is, solid at best.

It's a bad trade. Doesn't matter if Lovejoy scores the GWG in game 7 or if Despres gets arrested for being a Meth Kingpin.

JR undersold and vastly undervalued Despres. This team needs an enema, I have been saying that all year. But not an enema where we bring in "vets". We needed a team with the right mix of stars/solid vets/youth. Now our mix is terrible. The only real youth we have on the team is DP and I will bet anything he is being neutered daily about any mistake he makes.

Youthful energy, that is the biggest thing this team is missing. Throw in the lack of grit/size and well................ It's not going to be a pretty spring.

This wasn't about Lovejoy. This was about wanting to get rid of Despres and getting whatever they could in terms of experience and familiarity in return. They thought a 23 year old who was brilliant the first half of the season and tailed off towards the end was a diminishing asset, so they got rid of him. It's no simpler than that.

They went and made the tried and true "Veteran experience" move. I could swallow the trade if they got say, a Kronwall type (maybe not the best example, but someone in that mold) but they went out and got someone who MAYBE increases their odds of winning a Cup by 5%. End of story.

 

[Pens1566]

We no longer have "organizational strength".

Exactly.

 

[IcedCapp]

We no longer have "organizational strength".

I don't think we ever had it.

If you can't play Despres, Dumoulion and Harrington in some of the situations they haven't been played in, they were never a strength.

Having assets is meaningless without the buy-in in using them.

 

[Shrimper]

Related to this, we now no longer have the "organizational strength" of a deep roster of d prospects. Gone.

Yes we do.

We have Harrington, Pouliot, Maatta, Dumoulin. That's more than some have.

 

[Pens1566]

Yes we do.

We have Harrington, Pouliot, Maatta, Dumoulin. That's more than some have.

Disagree. Can't deal Maatta or DP as we will likely lose both of Martin/Ehrhoff to UFA. Neither of Harrington or Dumo is going to return anything of real significance (Simon only brought Lovejoy and he's a bigger talent than either of them). So now no chips.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yes we do.

We have Harrington, Pouliot, Maatta, Dumoulin. That's more than some have.

To be honest with you, most teams a Dumoulin and a Harrington. The reason we had some crazy lauded D prospect pool was because we had Despres, Pouliot, Maatta, Harrington, Dumoulin, and Morrow.

The idea was what we could do or acquire with those guys as much as it was how good they were.

We now have lost 2 of those guys and all we have to show for it is a 31 year who we traded away, right before trading away Morrow, and got back a 5th round pick. That is awful asset management.

Anyway, Maatta and Pouliot are great, but you need to trust having at least 3 of the 4 in the lineup to make any good use of that "depth".

 

[vikingGoalie]

I'm still seething over this trade. Part of me wants to watch the ducks more now, I caught their last two games. I've been a Pen fan since Mario was drafted, been watching ever since then, but it gets harder and harder to watch. Part of the enjoyment of a long time fan is to see youngsters come up through the org and blossom into something. I've always had, and still have pretty high hopes that Despres is going to be a bonafide stud in this league some day. At the very least he will be the rock of a 2nd pairing on a cup contender some day. We traded that for Ben Lovejoy, I know he's "better" now. Last time he was here he was a train wreck, anyone else remember when him and England going out was automatic disaster, but yet was rolled out time and time again?
If a few years and someone have some faith in Lovejoy could get him from then to now, a guy with a much lower ceiling. What do you think Despres could blossom into?

For whatever reason, this is the most ticked I've been over a trade. It makes zero sense on any level. No matter how you try to rationalize it. It's even more frustrating that not one media person in pittsburgh has the stones or intelligence to call it out for what it was. An IDIOTIC trade. Molinari sees it (i think) but he's been disinterested in writing critical stuff about the Pens for years now.

I think that Mackey might see it some as well, but as a beat reporter and practically a paid employee of the Pens doesn't have the stones to say anything negative about it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

To be honest with you, most teams a Dumoulin and a Harrington. The reason we had some crazy lauded D prospect pool was because we had Despres, Pouliot, Maatta, Harrington, Dumoulin, and Morrow.

The idea was what we could do or acquire with those guys as much as it was how good they were.

We now have lost 2 of those guys and all we have to show for it is a 31 year who we traded away, right before trading away Morrow, and got back a 5th round pick. That is awful asset management.

Anyway, Maatta and Pouliot are great, but you need to trust having at least 3 of the 4 in the lineup to make any good use of that "depth".

I believe the Pens got a 3rd rounder and they used it on Guentzel.

Also when speaking about asset mgmt, third rounders, etc, one thing I discovered about the Michalek trade, was that the third acquired in that trade was used on Sundqvist.

So if the Pens find a way not to **** him up, that deal at least looks pretty decent.

 

[Shady Machine]

I believe the Pens got a 3rd rounder and they used it on Guentzel.

Also when speaking about asset mgmt, third rounders, etc, one thing I discovered about the Michalek trade, was that the third acquired in that trade was used on Sundqvist.

So if the Pens find a way not to **** him up, that deal at least looks pretty decent.

Oh yeah I forgot about the 3rd. We trade Morrow and a 5th for Morrow and a 3rd.

 

[displacedpensfan]

Still considering.....

I'm still debating whether this is as bad a deal as Shero's Murray for two 2nds deal or the Jagr for Beech+ trade.

 

[IcedCapp]

I'm still debating whether this is as bad a deal as Shero's Murray for two 2nds deal or the Jagr for Beech+ trade.

worse than the Murray deal by a lot, but the Jagr thing is apples to oranges IMO