GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread - Training Camp is Upon Us

[Al Smith]

I saw TB play…in person and on tv…he was a frustrating player…great plays with a lot of crap plays in between…BR has been a much more consistent qb…

He definitely had the occasional completely inexplicable interception, like where no one on his team was within an Artie Burns of the interceptor. Different rules, different (read way less complex) playbooks, QBs calling plays, less 0ffensive catching talent to work with at TE and RB, etc. It's just hard to compare. Actually, looking at the flipside I think Ben would have done pretty well back in that time, compared to a lot of his peers, given his ability to excel at sandlot type fb.

 

[Al Smith]

Most QBs back then from old vaulted games I’ve watched seemed to all be bone heads in some way.

Tarkenton and Stabler had 62 picks between them just in ‘78 alone.

Offenses back then were more simplified and Walsh changed the game with the West Coast offense which required more of a cerebral QB to run it…

By the time Walsh left Cincy and went to SF his offense was fully evolved and ushered in mountains of copycats and the age of quick reads/multiple options/formation complexity etc.

****ing Ken Anderson used to torment the Steelers with those short passes and they didn't have the game plan or, by that time, the talent to stop them. But they did have that one shining moment in '85 where Mark Malone led them to victory against the Niners to ruin their otherwise perfect season.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

****ing Ken Anderson used to torment the Steelers with those short passes and they didn't have the game plan or, by that time, the talent to stop them. But they did have that one shining moment in '85 where Mark Malone led them to victory against the Niners to ruin their otherwise perfect season.

One of my first memories of following the Steelers as a little kid was when they beat the Niners on opening day (?) in ‘87.

I think it was Delton Hall that picked off Montana and ran it back for a TD. I still find it hard to believe that crap team beat the Niners… it would be like the ‘98 Steelers beating one of the Brady Pats teams.

I hated Walsh and the Niners with a passion as a kid. When Leonard Marshall knocked out Montana and ended their threepeat hopes - I was running around my game room screaming with elation (I had so much passion for the game back then, kind of funny to remember how I used to be).

I think it was former Steeler Matt Bahr that kicked the winner with no time left wasn’t it?

Also of note, that was that Hoodie lead defense with LT that would menace the Bills K Gun No Huddle offense in the SB.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It’s tough to be any worse than the line was last season. My biggest concern is if Ben’s arm will hold up. It sounds like Haskins is battling Rudolph for the #2 spot, that’s exciting as I assumed Rudolph would be penciled into the #2 role no matter what.

Ben's ARM will be fine. It's the rest of his body that I'm concerned about- he's what, 38?

This coaching staff is going to have to evaluate (yea never their strong suit) the risk vs reward of the offense.

The only reason Ben played in all the games was due to him throwing the ball in under 2 seconds.
If they run deeper routes, I definitely believe that Ben won't make it very far into the season

 

[T1K]

Ben's ARM will be fine. It's the rest of his body that I'm concerned about- he's what, 38?

This coaching staff is going to have to evaluate (yea never their strong suit) the risk vs reward of the offense.

The only reason Ben played in all the games was due to him throwing the ball in under 2 seconds.
If they run deeper routes, I definitely believe that Ben won't make it very far into the season

How can you have so much confidence in his arm? That injury almost ended his career…

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

How can you have so much confidence in his arm? That injury almost ended his career…

Because the type of surgery he had has a major success rate. In fact he had no issue with the deep ball last year when he was allowed to throw it. Was it entirely accurate? Not especially, but the strength and integrity of the muscle will not be in question.

My brother is an Ortho surgeon and I asked him specifically about Ben's operation when it happened.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Ben's ARM will be fine. It's the rest of his body that I'm concerned about- he's what, 38?

This coaching staff is going to have to evaluate (yea never their strong suit) the risk vs reward of the offense.

The only reason Ben played in all the games was due to him throwing the ball in under 2 seconds.
If they run deeper routes, I definitely believe that Ben won't make it very far into the season

If we're going into this season with the delusion of making it deep, we're going to need to use the entire field again. If Ben gets hurt doing that, so be it. Bring on Rudolph or even Haskins.

But we can't expect the 1-yard-to-Juju offense to ever succeed again.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

If we're going into this season with the delusion of making it deep, we're going to need to use the entire field again. If Ben gets hurt doing that, so be it. Bring on Rudolph or even Haskins.

But we can't expect the 1-yard-to-Juju offense to ever succeed again.

We can't have another "U Shaped" offense. Hopefully Canada implements some things that basically are the opposite of what we saw end of last year.

 

[lastcupever75]

Tarkenton and Stabler had 62 picks between them just in ‘78 alone.

i think a lot of that is due to defenses being able to manhandle receivers. both on the LOS and after the catch

just with this team i can remember some of the old replays with devastating hits.
lambert nearly beheading a WR coming across the middle.
blount dumping peasrson on his head at the snap of the ball in one of the dallas SBs
atkinson clothes lining swann with the play 20 yards away

 

[xlm34]

We can't have another "U Shaped" offense. Hopefully Canada implements some things that basically are the opposite of what we saw end of last year.

Apparently there’s a good bit of play action being worked on during camp. So it looks like there will be a few new wrinkles this year at least.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

i think a lot of that is due to defenses being able to manhandle receivers. both on the LOS and after the catch

just with this team i can remember some of the old replays with devastating hits.
lambert nearly beheading a WR coming across the middle.
blount dumping peasrson on his head at the snap of the ball in one of the dallas SBs
atkinson clothes lining swann with the play 20 yards away

I think it was ‘78 when they changed the rules and stopped allowing the receivers to be assaulted all over the field.

Wasn’t that known as the Mel Blount rule?

Likely why Noll let them ‘open’ up the offense.

 

[T1K]

Very stupid

 

[T1K]

Because the type of surgery he had has a major success rate. In fact he had no issue with the deep ball last year when he was allowed to throw it. Was it entirely accurate? Not especially, but the strength and integrity of the muscle will not be in question.

My brother is an Ortho surgeon and I asked him specifically about Ben's operation when it happened.

For baseball it has a high success rate, but for football I was under the impression this was extremely uncommon. I disagree about his deep ball not having issues, but I doubt they will be asking him to do much of that so agree to disagree. So far it sounds like Canada is doing pretty creative stuff, hopefully it masks our deficiencies.

 

[Al Smith]

I think it was ‘78 when they changed the rules and stopped allowing the receivers to be assaulted all over the field.

Wasn’t that known as the Mel Blount rule?

Likely why Noll let them ‘open’ up the offense.

Believe '78 is correct. Steelers offense was really the first to take advantage of the rule targeted at their defense.

But linebackers and D-backs could still maul WRs, just not at the LOS. Just ask Louis Lipps, who got crushed by a Bears LB (Otis Wilson?). I think Wilson was suspended, but only because the announcer (Charlie Jones?) whined about it for so long.

On a different note, I've seen DJ and Claypool both say Ben's arm is as strong as ever, so I'm looking forward to 4500 yards and 45 TDs.

 

[Andy99]

Very stupid

play a lot in the preseason games and he won’t be available when the games count…

 

[Al Smith]

play a lot in the preseason games and he won’t be available when the games count…

His wheels are fresh and there to be worn down. Why not start in preseason, right?

 

[Goalie_Bob]

As if he is going to play the whole game.....

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Very stupid

Gotta run the wheels off my new toy!

 

[T1K]

As if he is going to play the whole game.....

Obviously not, but why risk injury in a meaningless game? By all accounts he’s been incredible through camp, it would be a shame if he got hurt to “get him into football shape”. If he plays, it shouldn’t be more than a possession each game, maybe a little longer the 3rd game, but it’s a long season, they just added another game. Najee is gonna get a ton of work, why waste those touches in August?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Obviously not, but why risk injury in a meaningless game? By all accounts he’s been incredible through camp, it would be a shame if he got hurt to “get him into football shape”. If he plays, it shouldn’t be more than a possession each game, maybe a little longer the 3rd game, but it’s a long season, they just added another game. Najee is gonna get a ton of work, why waste those touches in August?

Especially considering the depth behind him is terrible. Let the other RB's get the much needed work

 

[Richard]

Tomlin gonna Tomlin

 

[Goalie_Bob]

The dude hasn't played a game in the NFL and you are upset because he will get like 4-5 carries in a preseason game?

What do you want him to do, not play any preseason games?

 

[T1K]

The dude hasn't played a game in the NFL and you are upset because he will get like 4-5 carries in a preseason game?

What do you want him to do, not play any preseason games?

He’s gonna get +350 touches this year. I don’t want him playing in the preseason and risking injury. I see no value add in that, but a ton of risk.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I'll admit, I wasn't expecting the 'we're running Najee into the ground' comments to start before a single snap.

Considering he's a rookie and all, no I don't have a problem with him starting the first pre-season game. Now if he's getting consistent touches for too long I'll be annoyed this early on, but when has Tomlin ever used the first-team offense for much of the first pre-season game of a season? Ben not starting just means Rudolph likely gets one additional series.

Legit question btw. My pre-season game intake has been nominal the past few years, but I don't recall Steelers keeping their starters in for much more than a series, maybe a quarter, in the first pre-season game.

 

[T1K]

The pre-season doesn’t matter at all. It should be for position battles and guys on the borderline, Najee fits neither category.